I am quietly religious. Everything I do I check with Jesus to make sure God will approve of my conduct. I have had a very good life because of this.

However, I am not a Bible-thumper unless that is the conversation.

The commandment hard for me to keep is the seventh day. It is hard not to use the phone or conduct a business transaction on Saturday.

This means I do NOT cheat, steal or lie. It is actually very easy to not lie as you don't have to keep up with the lies you already told. Just think back and always say what happened. I cannot tell you how much this propelled my career when upper echelons found out I wouldn't bs them.

I also think everyone comes to God, or doesn't, in their own way.

This thread is simply where you can say briefly I hope what your religion means to you.

my 'religion' is baptist, but it is mostly a label to me.

My relationship with God is one of many things which keep me humble and ever cognizant of the big picture and how my small actions can have a ripple effect in the long run.


My relationship with God is the fulcrum upon which I can balance the ups, downs, obstacles, and blessings.

Oh well my "label" is seventh day adventist.

I am Jewish by birth, but not religious. I never was. I enjoy learning about religion or discussing it as long as someone isn't preaching to me.

i feel sorry for someone who must check with jesus or some god in order to do the right thing. in fact, many have consulted their higher being, according the them, and have done quite the wrong thing. the inquisition, crusades, salem witch trials, this jihad we must endure today, etc.

religion, of course, is meaningless to me as i don't think the human mind is capable of knowing the existence of god, the afterlife or other supernatural phenomena. so i've had to develope my own moral compass using logic and common sense. having done that, i find myself less in conflict with my morals when i come across a situation that i've not encountered before. being practiced in developing my own moral and ethical system of behavior i don't run into the problems the god fearing folks seem to when the dogma that rules their lives does not cover a particular situation and missinterpretation of what teachings are available happen.

I don't belong to any group or church.
I loathe Christianity,
I see it as the greatest lie ever told and
the great divider of humanity!

I have a spiritual practice which involves
much north and south.. native american traditions.
Mainly, but not limited to Peruvian shamanism.

While I agree with jr that the human mind is incapable of knowing without a doubt the existence of a god, I do believe that
'super natural phenomena' occurs quite frequently in our lives, if we are open to it.

I believe religion keeps us from having truly spiritual experiences...

I believe there are many paths and all deserve to have the freedom to explore theirs without judgment from others.

The check is auto and takes a millisecond for me. It just "feels" a certain way.

I agree about religion causing wars and persecution. That is why I said it calls to us each our own way. So I don't slam other folks beliefs but I too cannot see how some professed religious people can do what they do. Sometimes I hesitate calling myself Christian because of some's attitudes on it. Holier-than-thou, etc. So I feel like a muslim protesting that Islam is not supposed to be that way!

I believe in God. I'm a Christian, but I'm none de-nominal.

I think that's a very good philosophy to live by. Although, it doesn't need to be Jesus that people stop and think about. All they need to do really is ask themselves whether or not what they about to do is indeed something that they ultimately approve of themselves.

You use Jesus as an icon for this. But like you say, it only takes a split second to do this. Why is that? Well the reason it only takes a split second is because all you are truly doing is checking with your own sense of morality. One that you obviously associate with Jesus.

Moreover, have you ever checked with Jesus about something that you were about to do and get a really shocking answer that seemed immoral to you?

When you "check with Jesus" all you are really doing is asking yourself whether or not you consider you next move to be a highly moral thing to do. So you are ultimately just checking with your own ideals of what you believe to be the highest moral standards.

Like I say, that's a really good way to live in any case. But why attribute this to a deity. I feel certain that you could use other deities in your mind and come up with the same answers. It's basically impossible to defy Jesus by following the teachings of Buddha for example. Other than perhaps the idea that you aren't recognizing Jesus as the top dog, which itself is supposed to be an immoral thing to do according to Christianity.



Same here. I'm not a Bible-basher unless that is the conversation.

But it often becomes the conversation when people start proclaiming that the entire Bible is the "Word of God" and that Jesus is the only way to get to God.

I have no problem with people who want to believe in God through the Bible and stories of Jesus. Where I becomes extremely upset and distraught is when they act like I'm some kind of immoral criminal simply because I don't recognize the Bible to be the Word of God.

When they do that they are belittling me by accusing me of being less moral than them. In other words, they are following God, and I am rebelling against God. Which is utter hogwash. That is a truly sad thing about Christianity because the religion does not allow its followers to give any respect to any other view of God save for through Jesus as "The Christ".



It no wonder. Such a commandment is insane. It has nothing to do with morality and that's probably why you have a problem with it.



I don't do those things either, and partly for the same reason that you do. It's simply a stupid, and impractical way to try to live life. Moreover, I don't do things that I need to lie about. I realized early on in life that lying would be an utterly foolish thing for me to become involved with because I basically have no reason to lie. The only reason a person should need to lie is if they are attempting to cover up something else that they shouldn't have been doing in the first place. So liars are already guilty of having something that they need to lie about.

Steer clear of behavior that you would need to lie about and there is no need to lie.

For example, I certainly wouldn't need to lie to my lover about not being with other women if it was already true that I have not cheated. Don't cheat, and there's no need to lie about.

And like you say, don't steal, and there's no need to lie about how you've obtained things. If you don't do these things in the first place then there is no need to lie. People who lie do so because they have something they need to lie about in the first place.



Well, I will certainly agree with that too. However, as I'm sure you are already aware from my previous statements that I don't limit the term "God" to the deity described by Hebrew folklore. There are many thing that I disagree with concerning those fables.

However, I seriously doubt that I would actually disagree with a genuinely righteous and all-wise God. Therefore I see no reason to accept that the Hebrew myths describe "God" anymore than the Greek Myths of Zeus did. Both of those mythologies have God as a male personified being that is interested in blood sacrifices to appease their wrath.

So I have absolutely no problem at all dismissing the entire Old Testament as having no more merit than Greek Mythology.

I most certainly would not live by the immoral standards that been taught in the Old Testament. And clearly the man called Jesus did not approve of those immoral teachings either.

When it comes to Jesus himself, at least in terms of moral teachings, I have no problem at all with the moral teachings of Jesus. As far as I'm concerned Jesus taught far better moral values than had been taught in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament taught people to seek revenge as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Jesus taught people to forgive each other instead and turn the other cheek rather than seeking revenge.

So Jesus himself did not support the immoral teachings of the Old Testament God.

The Old Testament taught people to judge each other and to throw stones at each other whilst calling each other 'sinners'.

Jesus renounced all of that and taught that we should not judge others and he even cleverly renounced throwing stones at other people by suggesting that only those who are without sin should cast the first stone.

It's crystal clear to me that Jesus was most likely a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist who was actually renouncing the horrible immoral teachings of the Old Testament and instead trying to instill the higher moral values that had been taught by Buddha.

Jesus probably was crucified by the Pharisees for having spoken out against their Torah. I don't doubt that at all. After all the God of the Torah taught people to kill heathens who speak out against the "Word of God" and Jesus most certainly did that. In fact, according to the New Testament rumors Jesus used to sit around and preach that the Scribes and Pharisees were hypocrites. So he was clearly "Bible Bashing" the Torah every chance he got.

So I have no problem at all with associating Jesus himself with high moral values. But when I see him used as an excuse to hold up the entire Old Testament and a lot of the immoral stuff that was in that mythology I quickly back away from the religion. I do not support the idea that Jesus was the only begotten son of the God of Abraham sent to be the 'sacrificial lamb' to pay for our salvation.

I have extreme problems with all of that.

Especially if people are going to use Jesus as an excuse to pass judgment on my relationship with "God".

That very action right there is total hypocrisy with respect to what Jesus taught about not judging others.

By the way, I realize that you are not judging me, and I'm suggesting that you are. But many Christians do judge non-Christians to be insubordinate of God if they refuse to acknowledge Jesus as the sacrificial lamb of God and the ultimate King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

And that very judgment right there becomes a huge source of animosity between myself and "judgmental" Christians.

Respect that I can worship God through Buddha, or any other personified figure I so choose, and I'll respect you.

In fact, I expected to be respected even if I should happen to chose to believe and accept atheism. That too should be respected, and not seen as rebellion against any "God".



I never say anything briefly.

I find it very difficult to convey what my religion means to me when speaking to a Christian because they often can't get past Jesus, Yahweh and a personified egotistical image of God as a Fatherly image.

They usually don't understand a pantheistic view of God at all. They can't seem to imagine an idea of a non-personified spiritual entity.

So it's basically impossible for me to share with them my views of spirituality since they can't even begin to conceptualize the idea.

Even when they try, they usually just turn their nose up at it and suggest that they simply don't like that idea of a "God".

So I can't possibly share with them the beauty of "God" when they insist that there is nothing beautiful about a pantheistic view of God.

Well, in a similar way, I see no beauty in the biblical picture of a male-chauvinist egotistical Godhead who will cast everyone into hell if they don't cower down to his demands.

From my perceptive that is an extremely ugly picture of "God".

So sharing the beauty of "God" with a Christian usually isn't possible because they reject my view of God just as much as I reject theirs.

The only difference between us is that they judge me in Jesus' name to be rejecting God, whereas I don't judge their relationship with God at all.

I don't think God would condemn someone for being a Christian.

But the Christians seem to be convinced that God will condemn someone who isn't a Christian. And rightfully so, since this is what the Bible says.


John.3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


They've been taught by the Bible to believe that anyone who does not believe in Jesus is condemned already.

It's part and parcel of the Bible. That's what Christians believe in - The Bible.

So they can't very well ignore what it says.

And that becomes highly problematic for anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of God. For the Bible says, "They are condemned already".

But the Christians seem to be convinced that God will condemn someone who isn't a Christian. And rightfully so, since this is what the Bible says.


John.3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


They've been taught by the Bible to believe that anyone who does not believe in Jesus is condemned already



..Ive been taught two things that , in addition, to the above verse draw me to a different 'interpretation' of how to view others

first, Ive been taught that there is redemption and forgiveness so that noones fate is SEALED until they take their last breath

second, Ive been taugh that just as those professing to know God, dont actually know him at all

on the flip side

not all proclaiming not to believe in his name, dont actually believe in his name(They may not feel that is the proper way to express what they believe, even if they actually do on some level)

,,,,so, although I do think that those who willfully REFUSE to accept what is given them up to their last breath(with no ASSUMPTION of what others are given or what their wills are), will be refused when judgment comes


I do not know who those people are because I feel only God knows us that well,,,,so it becomes irrelevant to me in concern to what others are 'condemned' or not

MsHarmony,

I can certainly accept your views that different people interpret things differently. But how far can that ideal be stretched?

Here's my interpretation of the whole Biblical story.

1. The Old Testament has no more merit than the Greek Mythology of Zeus.
2. Jesus was most likely a mortal Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva
3. The New Testament is nothing more than a collection of superstitious rumors.

That's a valid interpretation of the whole biblical cannon.

All I ask is that it be respected as such.

I am not one who is unable to respect differing opinions. I respect MOST of what is posted on this board as opinion.


my folks always said 'everyone has one',,, and turns out they are right...lol

I did not post abra's long post, hehehehehe.

But yes, I simply ask would I want someone to do this to me?

I have no problem with his post because my god, Yahweh, says to judge not so I do not.

Yes, it is simply a whole lot easier not lying in life. Situations that you would lie for are generally not worth it or involve hurting someone (like cheating on your partner).

He doesn't say briefly, but at least you know where he stands.

I have problems as he does with people doing things in god's name or Jesus's name. They need to really think first.

I trust that you do indeed feel much the same way I do concerning this.

And it is indeed a shame. It's a sad situation for you just as it is for me, because it tends to pit "Christianity against the world", which I'm sure is not your view.

In truth Old Hippie, I highly respect the fact that you think of Jesus before you make any decision. That is indeed a very good way to live your life. I do not question that at all.

When it comes to actual moral values, I'm in total agreement with just about everything that has been associated with Jesus.

Jesus never taught anyone that they must uphold the entire Torah as the "Word of God".

Also Jesus could not have possibly taught anyone that they need to believe in the New Testament or anything that came after it, since those things hadn't even been written at the time Jesus lived.

~~~~~

In truth, I respect "Jesus" as a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who actually rejected the immoral teachings of the Torah.

So in a very real sense, I value Jesus' opinions probably as much as you do.

I just view Jesus himself in a totally different way.