Topic: Rudy the Useless - from the BBC
Belushi's photo
Wed 07/11/07 11:55 PM
Firefighters who lost colleagues in the 9/11 attacks in New York have strongly criticised Republican presidential contender Rudy Giuliani.

They released a video claiming that failures by the then-mayor of New York led to the deaths of 121 men.

The video says Mr Giuliani failed to provide working radios for crews and halted the recovery effort too soon.

Mr Giuliani's campaign said the union behind the footage was known to support Democratic presidential candidates.

Mr Giuliani is seen as one of the frontrunners in the race for the Republican nomination.

A total of 343 firefighters died in New York on 11 September 2001

It says Mr Giuliani pushed for a faster cleanup at Ground Zero before all the remains had been recovered, and placed an emergency centre in a building that later collapsed.

It also accuses the former mayor of failing to provide working radios for firefighters, saying it made it impossible for them to learn that the Twin Towers were about to collapse

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Oh super ... now it starts ... let the presidential games begin

[sits down, gets popcorn, gets comfy]

Barbiesbigsister's photo
Thu 07/12/07 02:44 AM
OH! is that what caused it? I remember those firefighters perished due to the FIRE DEPT and POLICE did not use the same frequency on their radios THUS THIS LEAD TO THIS TRAGEDY.
Being a retired firefighter I can remember NOT using the same frequency as the POLICE. So its a nice theory but just WRONG.

davinci1952's photo
Thu 07/12/07 06:43 AM
the 10 min video is here:

http://www.rudy-urbanlegend.com/index.asp?v=vaCYEEO-58I

Giuliani's leadership abilities are talked about...must see..grumble grumble

xootbx's photo
Fri 07/13/07 04:07 AM
The main command center was located there, the backup command center was at JFK or LaGardia. It just happens that the World Trade Centers was the target, had it been any other target the command center would not be an issue. Additionally NYC has mobile comm centers as well.
As for the problem with radios, there are two main issues, the first being frequency used. This is correct operatating proceedure for most agencies that would be involved in this type of thing. That is why a central command is created and interagency communication is handled through command not the individuals. There are several reasons for this. Mainly chatter. If everyone is using the same frequency then the lines of communication within each agency deminishs. Two orders passed through an agency need to be managed and controlled. Three if multiple agencies are using the same frequency commands could be mistakenly interpretted by the wrong agency. Forth, it creates a situation where more words have to be spoken so everyone on listen understands what is being said and by whom, identification of individual speaking as well as department specific lingo has to be spelled out. Forth some agencies do not want open two way access and they should not be setup that ways for security purposes.
The second situation is functionality of the radios. Two main situations occured here, the first was transmission/reception. With all of the equipment in the area that utlizes the airways there was a breakdown in functionality. This includes equipment being used by ERs, military comm equipment and consumer electronics in the area, mainly cell phones. Now all operate at different frequencies however there is interference between frequencies especially with the vast about of electronics operating at the time. The second part of this is failed/outdated equipment, I cannot speak for NYC but the munipalities that I have worked in, the individual agencies are responsible for the equipment they have. Thus as far as I know the NYPD is responsible for their equipment, acquisition, maintenance and repair of said equipment, as is the NYFD., etc
The second problem with the radios as availability. Typically a of those entering an area of operation, there is a designated communications person, the rest of the people may not have radio equipment, this is typical of most EMS agencies.
The last issue of concern is Rudy's leadership abilities during and after the crisis. I think he did a great job managing the different agencies and keeping things level headed. I also commend him for going to into the danger zone to manage it. You look at other mayors, the jackass from New Orleans, and you distinctly see what a great job Rudy did.
As for the rapid cleanup, it had to be done, plenty of time was put into the rescue/recovery effort. At some point it has to stop. The continued cost, exposure to the debris, the "growth" in the debris etc... are all reasons to clean that up quickly.
On top of that, the majority of the rescue/recovery workers were at the fatigue level at that point, both physically as well as emotionally. Most of the debris ended up in NJ to be examined again for identification of missing persons, it did not just stop dead in NY. Much effort went into finding and identifying the people lost in this tragedy.

Fanta46's photo
Fri 07/13/07 05:56 AM
Belushi, you just wont do...........
laugh laugh laugh