LOVE IT! The "Kick the rich out of the country" crowd make me laugh from the sheer ignorance. In 2008, the top 5% paid 58.72% of all taxes! But you guys want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I am so glad that leftists are the minority, if there were more off them, we would all live in abject poverty.

People like you who divide the country with your ideas of left and right are the biggest problem.

It's not the people who want to actually kick the rich out of the country (like you agreed to in CreativeSoul's post) who are the problem, but the people who point out that the leftists are bound and determined to destroy the nation with their incredibly stupid ideas.



Will you marry me? I need a wife who can make me laugh at the drop of a hat.

Fair enough. I did know about the car manufacturers, but while that does supply a few thousand jobs, it doesn't compare to the millions of other jobs that have gone to (or will go to) India, Mexico, China and other countries that can supply far cheaper labor and far more lax health codes or building regulations and safety conditions.

Considering your arguments toward morality and fairness ... do you advocate sweatshops? Child labor? Forced labor just shy of slavery? Does it sit well with your moral compass that people work 16 hours a day for $.50 which really doesn't pay for them to eat healthily?

No, everyone in the USA is not jobless ... that doesn't mean another advocate of "trickle down economics" won't drive the unemployment rate up another five percent in 2013 because corporations take the money and open another factory in China. "Thanks, America ... and now, thank YOU China for the cheap labor so I can thank America AGAIN when the annual profit reports roll in. Yee haw!"

Niki produces in another country. Just don't buy these products.

Of course the whole name of the game is divide and conquer. Keep us arguing on one side or the other to where we don't even realize both sides are two sides of the same coin and no matter what side "wins" we all lose.

Absolutely I support sweatshops, don't you?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqtS3sFVy7s



Let's be honest, "sweatshops" really are good for growing economies. People who work in sweatshops are actually far better off than their neighbors who don't. The statistics show that.

So yes, I support sweatshops, it's the moral position.

How does free trade work without society Spider?

Very well actually. Imagine a guy (Soandso) living by himself next to a lake. Soandso fishes all day and catches a lot of fish. Soandso trades some of them to the guy on the other side of the lake (Theotherguy) for some of the vegetables Theotherguy grows. Both get what they want. Even if they don't like each other, they see the benefit to the continued trade.

Spider,

I did not say anything at all about kicking the rich out of the country. That implication within your recent claims is false. "The golden goose"? Puhleeeze. You may place all of your confidence in all sorts of fairy tales and other objects of your imagination, but they do not motivate anyone other than those who believe in them.

I don't.

The accumulation of wealth through 'free trade' is necessarily contingent upon a society of people.

You've objected with pure rhetoric and propoganda. I'm not interested. Do you have a logical/valid argument? Please, put one forth.

C'mon it's not that hard is it?

You bring up one to one barter as if it accurately describes today's economic and employment models.

All the while calling other people ignorant.



You call sweatshops moral because it is better than nothing or the little they had before? Since when do we measure what is morally acceptable regarding fair wages and working conditions/lifestyle conditions by comparing it to nothing? Do we measure everyone's lifestyle conditions by comparison to nothing or very little and then call it the moral thing to do?

How does that work when we compare wealthy people's lifestyle? I mean, half of what they accumulate without taxes is better than nothing... right?

Tell me why a normal high-school educated average citizen should not be able to work a normal 40-hour work week and live comfortably enough for another parent to be able to stay home and take care of the household/children?

Why should that not be the norm for those who choose it?

One other thing...

I do not like the disrespect and attempts at ridicule. Keep it out of this thread or bugger off and play elsewhere.

No, I did not. You made the clearly false statement "Without society "trade" cannot happen." and I responded to it. I did not claim that barter "accurately describes today's economic and employment models." That's a flat out lie and if you actually thought I said that, then you are a complete moron.



Yes, very.



It's called a moral hierarchy. The choices are A) Let them work in sweatshops and earn a decent (for their country) wage or B) Force them to work as prostitutes or long hours in the sun working a field with primitive tools and/or gathering firewood for cooking and sale and still get less than they would get in a sweatshop, but while being in a far more dangerous line of work. Building a candy river, a field of lolly pops and clouds made out of cotton candy for them just isn't possible. We have to deal with the real world. Look at Taiwan, which had sweatshops years ago. As their economy grew (because of the taxes and economic activity of their sweatshop working citizens), sweatshops became less and less common. Eventually, it was no longer economically feasible to run sweatshops in Taiwan, so they moved to other countries. Taiwan now has the 19th largest GDP in the world. But you want to shut them down, subjecting the employees to greater hardships, just so that you can hold on to a smug sense of moral superiority. It's disgusting that you hold your self-satisfaction in so much higher esteem than those who you would condemn to suffer.





You are comparing apples to oranges.

In the sweatshops, the workers are getting paid the amount to which they agreed upon hiring. In the case of the wealthy, they are earning the amount that their work is worth, but then the Government is taking 50%. How you can equate the two is beyond reason.

It should...I don't know what you are getting at. I think you are demanding higher wages from the money fairy. Unfortunately, the money fairy is a myth that leftists tell to their children to help them sleep all snug in their sense of moral superiority to those capitalist rubes who don't believe in the money fairy.

thats the 2nd time you've told someone to "bugger off"... do you think your the forum police?... what are you going to do about it if he doesn't "bugger off"?

So you don't care that the top 5% that you want to tax until they leave the country contribute almost 60% of the total income taxes? Or you don't believe the IRS's statistics?

one thing you guys are missing is the ceo's pay... in 1980, it was roughly 18 times more than the average workers... now it around 2600 times more....

Fairy tales? You are the one who thinks that the US can continue to operate as a nation without the top 5%! You are the one who believes that wages can be raised by the Government (That's Fascism, BTW. Most leftists are facists, so you are in good, or rather bad, company) and the companies should just have to grin and bare it. You are the one who thinks that not enough money is given to the poor, when the statistics show that they could all easily be raised to the 200% poverty line with the current budget, if it was simply reorganized. You are the one who thinks that the rich are the problem, when the top 5% alone pays almost 60% of the income taxes. It's you who believes in fairy tales, not me.

That's the business of the shareholders, not the employees, the general populous and surely not the Government. If the shareholders don't have a problem with it, then there is no problem.