And just why do you think that is Cowboy?

It's nothing more than a reaction to Christian proselytizing and evangelizing.




What do you mean "And neither do Christians"?

Are you blind Cowboy? Christianity is being held up by Christians as the "Word of God" all the time! Constantly.

Sure, it may be true that the individual followers of the religion don't all personally go around proselyting the religion. But as an organized religion it has a history of proselytizing and evangelizing. It's easy for fundamentalists to get the individual followers to support their political agendas and so forth using the religion as a scapegoat.

And besides, you aren't one to talk.

You have preached hard-core fundamentalism yourself using this religion. Have you forgotten that when you first came on here you were claiming to be a "Servant of God" out to "Save Souls" because you "Love People"?

So you came on the forums trying to SAVE people from the God described in a religion that they don't even believe in, and when they told you that they aren't interested in the religion YOU continually beat them over the head with arguments that "Jesus is Lord and there is no other, blah, blah, blah"

You were proselytizing the religion quite heavily for quite some time. More recently you seem to have backed-off a slight bit from your original tactics. But you still talk as if the religion is the only way to God.

In your very post here what are you saying?



See? You are arguing as if everyone should believe in Christianity as we speak!

You're arguing that this God who punishes people for their disobedience still loves them anyway, even the non-believers.

You're acting like everyone should believe in this religion even as you claim that "Christians aren't like that".



You're still talking to people who have no interest in your religion like as if they should still by buying into it, and you're being totally ignorant toward everyone who, either doesn't believe its true, or has a different view of God.

How are you being ignorant toward them?

By totally ignoring the fact that they they have already told you umpteen times that they don't believe in your religion.

Yet, you continually speak to everyone as if they should buy into your religious claims, even after they have been telling you for years precisely they they aren't the slightest bit interested in such an absurd picture of God.

Sheesh!

What does it take to get through to people like you?

How blind can people be to not be able to see that it's Christianity that is beating everyone else over the head with this God who "punishes" everyone for absurd things like not even believing in the religion.



How can you NOT see that it's coming FROM Christianity?

No matter how many times I tell you that I don't believe in the religion, you keep talking to me like as if you never heard a word I said.

You keep coming back with "God loves all, this includes the non-believers. God still loves these people. Does a parent not love their child because they punished their child in one way or other for disobedience? God loves all my friend.

You're still talking to me like as if I should believe in the Christian God who punishes his children. And that the mere fact that I don't believe in this God doesn't change a thing.



It's truly unbelievable.

And then why I try to explain to you precisely WHY I don't believe in your religion, what do you do? You CRY!

"Why are you bashing my religion? I'm just trying to tell you what God expects from you"



I'm not bashing your religion Cowboy. I'm simply COUNTERING your constantly proselytizing of it!

I'm trying to explain to you why I have totally rejected the Hebrew picture of God as being utterly absurd. And you're STILL talking to me like as if I should believe in that picture of God.




Yep, it's definitely the Christians who aren't "getting this" Cowboy.

Sure, it may be true that the individual followers of the religion don't all personally go around proselyting the religion. But as an organized religion it has a history of proselytizing and evangelizing. It's easy for fundamentalists to get the individual followers to support their political agendas and so forth using the religion as a scapegoat.

Are you blind Cowboy? Christianity is being held up by Christians as the "Word of God" all the time! Constantly.

And just why do you think that is Cowboy?

It's nothing more than a reaction to Christian proselytizing and evangelizing.




What do you mean "And neither do Christians"?

Are you blind Cowboy? Christianity is being held up by Christians as the "Word of God" all the time! Constantly.

Sure, it may be true that the individual followers of the religion don't all personally go around proselyting the religion. But as an organized religion it has a history of proselytizing and evangelizing. It's easy for fundamentalists to get the individual followers to support their political agendas and so forth using the religion as a scapegoat.

And besides, you aren't one to talk.

You have preached hard-core fundamentalism yourself using this religion. Have you forgotten that when you first came on here you were claiming to be a "Servant of God" out to "Save Souls" because you "Love People"?

So you came on the forums trying to SAVE people from the God described in a religion that they don't even believe in, and when they told you that they aren't interested in the religion YOU continually beat them over the head with arguments that "Jesus is Lord and there is no other, blah, blah, blah"

You were proselytizing the religion quite heavily for quite some time. More recently you seem to have backed-off a slight bit from your original tactics. But you still talk as if the religion is the only way to God.

In your very post here what are you saying?



See? You are arguing as if everyone should believe in Christianity as we speak!

You're arguing that this God who punishes people for their disobedience still loves them anyway, even the non-believers.

You're acting like everyone should believe in this religion even as you claim that "Christians aren't like that".



You're still talking to people who have no interest in your religion like as if they should still by buying into it, and you're being totally ignorant toward everyone who, either doesn't believe its true, or has a different view of God.

How are you being ignorant toward them?

By totally ignoring the fact that they they have already told you umpteen times that they don't believe in your religion.

Yet, you continually speak to everyone as if they should buy into your religious claims, even after they have been telling you for years precisely they they aren't the slightest bit interested in such an absurd picture of God.

Sheesh!

What does it take to get through to people like you?

How blind can people be to not be able to see that it's Christianity that is beating everyone else over the head with this God who "punishes" everyone for absurd things like not even believing in the religion.



How can you NOT see that it's coming FROM Christianity?

No matter how many times I tell you that I don't believe in the religion, you keep talking to me like as if you never heard a word I said.

You keep coming back with "God loves all, this includes the non-believers. God still loves these people. Does a parent not love their child because they punished their child in one way or other for disobedience? God loves all my friend.

You're still talking to me like as if I should believe in the Christian God who punishes his children. And that the mere fact that I don't believe in this God doesn't change a thing.



It's truly unbelievable.

And then I try to explain to you precisely WHY I don't believe in your religion, and what do you do? You CRY!

"Why are you bashing my religion? I'm just trying to tell you what God expects from you"



I'm not bashing your religion Cowboy. I'm simply COUNTERING your constantly proselytizing of it!

I'm trying to explain to you why I have totally rejected the Hebrew picture of God as being utterly absurd. And you're STILL talking to me like as if I should believe in that picture of God.




Yep, it's definitely the Christians who aren't "getting this" Cowboy.

See? You are arguing as if everyone should believe in Christianity as we speak! ohwell

You're arguing that this God who punishes people for their disobedience still loves them anyway, even the non-believers.

You're acting like everyone should believe in this religion even as you claim that "Christians aren't like that".

Christianity isn't the problem?

They how do you explain that all we ever see in religious forums are debates about Christianity versus the non-Christians?

Do you see the names of any other religions in there?

It doesn't matter whether I claim to be a Wiccan, or a Buddhist, or an Atheists, or any other form of spirituality you can think of. The Christians would STILL be trying to tell me that Jesus is the only begotten son of God, and whatever my beliefs, or non-beliefs are, they must necessarily be WRONG.

So how can you say that Christianity isn't the problem?

It's the only religion arrogant enough to argue with EVERY other spiritual or non-spiritual belief on the planet.

Well, potentially Islam is just as bad, but that's really the same basic religion. It's based on the same fundamental scriptures of a Jealous God who commands that no other Gods shall be put before him.

And both of those religions broke off from Judaism which doesn't seem to be quite as arrogant as either Christianity or Islam. But that could depend on specific sects of Jews too. I imagine they have their own "denominations and sects" to deal with. I don't truly know much about modern day Judaism.

I know that Albert Einstein was a Jew and he renounced it in favor of Buddhism, so that's good enough for me.

But truly, how can you say that Christianity isn't the problem when it's basically always "Christianity against the WORLD".

Christians look at it like "The WORLD against Christianity" but that's only because they can't see that the ARROGANCE arises with Christianity, and NOT from all those other beliefs or non-beliefs. (except perhaps other Abrahamic Religions)

In fact, I often hear Christians saying, "Well duh! Doesn't every religion in the world believe that there religion the ONLY TRUTH of God?"

NO THEY DON'T !

And they don't go around trying to convince people that God will hate them if they refuse to obey their RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE either!

Those claims are innate to the Abrahamic religions and find their epitome in Christianity with the claim that Jesus is the "Only begotten son of God who came as the sacrificial lamb of God to pay for the salvation of mankind"

And quite frankly the REST OF THE WORLD is getting sick and tired of hearing that broken record.

I guess we havent found those persons knowledgable enough to decide what 'proper' application of the first amendment is

thats why there are courts to 'interpret' such things as they arise,,,

indeed, but it's not a matter for the courts to decide what is 'proper.' the courts decide what is lawful and contitutional. some things that have arisen of late was the ten commandments in a federal courthouse and prayer in school which were ruled to violate the separation clause. today there are ongoing case involving 'god' in the pledge and such.

Yes the forefathers were indeed incapable of stopping the inevitable.

Especially if they were offering "FREEDOM" of religion.

How could they stop it?

People continued to come to America from Europe and brought their bibles with them.

Why would that stop?

There simply weren't many other religoins to compete.

Moreover other religions such as the pagan religions aren't of a competitive nature. Pagans don't go around trying to convert people to become pagans. Pagans are also often solitary and private in their spirituality as well.

So a brass crass religion that is actively proselytizing and evangelizing people to join their churches and accept Christ as their savior are naturally going to dominate. It's their very nature to be dominant in that sense.

So that's what happened.

Accept Jesus as your savior or be damned.

Period, AMEN.

They aren't open to discussing alternative views of God or disbelief in a God. Either confess that Jesus is the King of Kings or be damned.

That's the bottom line, whether stated politely or harshly, it doesn't matter, it's still the bottom line either way.

Cowboy wrote:

We're not here to try to alter another's beliefs or anything, just merely share all our different beliefs. And yes a long the lines in a community with a large range of people, you'll find a large range of different beliefs.

We don't argue, we learn and share. It seems to only be you and a few others that take it to the arguing level.

it takes two to argue,,,,

can we move on from that particular line of logic now,,,,,

One of the things we claimed independence from was religious restriction or discrimination in England.

And yet we have allowed one religion here to dominate and insidiously [permeate almost all aspects of life in this country. Prayers at public events, using the bible to male laws of the land, bible sayings on government buildings, etc....

What happened to the true freedom of religion or lack of in this country? Were the forefathers incapable of limiting religion enough to stop the domination? What do you think happened?

You have already confessed that you have convinced yourself that you are a "Servant of your Lord" who is out to spread his word.

So why start lying about it now?

You're not just "sharing your beliefs" you are arguing with people non-stop that they should believe in your religion.



Sure you argue. Don't kid yourself.

First you try to proselytize your beliefs onto others, then when they explain why they don't care to believe in that religion you make arguments for it.

When they offer the reasons why they don't accept your arguments.

You accuse them of "arguing". Or worse yet of "bashing" your religion when in fact all they are attempting to do is make it crystal clear to the constant Christian proselytizers just why it is they they don't accept the ancient Hebrew claims about God.

All we are waiting for is for the Christians to confess, that we do indeed have legitimate reasons for rejecting these tales, and that they have simply chosen to believe in them as a matter of pure faith.

That's all we ask.

But no, you, and other Christian proselytizers like you, continually "argue" that it's more than just a faith-based belief system and that everyone should be accepting these fables as if they represent some sort of absolute truth.

As long as you continue to put forth that argument the non-believers are going to continue to explain why they don't accept your arguments.

Basically the Christians are the only one who is putting forth an argument in terms of expecting everyone to accept their arguments. The non-believer in Christianity are just trying to explain why they aren't buying into it.

Then when they explain why they aren't buying your arguments, you accuse them of being "argumentative" and/or "bashing" your religion.

Quit trying to SELL people your religion and people will quit offering you reasons why they aren't buying into it.

It's that simple Cowboy.


But to accuse them of being "argumentative" and/or "bashing" your religion is ignorant. Because they probably wouldn't even mention your religion if it wasn't constantly being proselytized in their face.

You have already confessed that you have convinced yourself that you are a "Servant of your Lord" who is out to spread his word.

So why start lying about it now? huh

You're not just "sharing your beliefs" you are arguing with people non-stop that they should believe in your religion.

First you try to proselytize your beliefs onto others, then when they explain why they don't care to believe in that religion you make arguments for it.

All we are waiting for is for the Christians to confess, that we do indeed have legitimate reasons for rejecting these tales, and that they have simply chosen to believe in them as a matter of pure faith.

But no, you, and other Christian proselytizers like you, continually "argue" that it's more than just a faith-based belief system and that everyone should be accepting these fables as if they represent some sort of absolute truth.

You have already confessed that you have convinced yourself that you are a "Servant of your Lord" who is out to spread his word.

So why start lying about it now?

You're not just "sharing your beliefs" you are arguing with people non-stop that they should believe in your religion.



Sure you argue. Don't kid yourself.

First you try to proselytize your beliefs onto others, then when they explain why they don't care to believe in that religion you make arguments for it.

When they offer the reasons why they don't accept your arguments.

You accuse them of "arguing". Or worse yet of "bashing" your religion when in fact all they are attempting to do is make it crystal clear to the constant Christian proselytizers just why it is they they don't accept the ancient Hebrew claims about God.

All we are waiting for is for the Christians to confess, that we do indeed have legitimate reasons for rejecting these tales, and that they have simply chosen to believe in them as a matter of pure faith.

That's all we ask.

But no, you, and other Christian proselytizers like you, continually "argue" that it's more than just a faith-based belief system and that everyone should be accepting these fables as if they represent some sort of absolute truth.

As long as you continue to put forth that argument the non-believers are going to continue to explain why they don't accept your arguments.

Basically the Christians are the only one who is putting forth an argument in terms of expecting everyone to accept their arguments. The non-believer in Christianity are just trying to explain why they aren't buying into it.

Then when they explain why they aren't buying your arguments, you accuse them of being "argumentative" and/or "bashing" your religion.

Quit trying to SELL people your religion and people will quit offering you reasons why they aren't buying into it.

It's that simple Cowboy.


But to accuse them of being "argumentative" and/or "bashing" your religion is ignorant. Because they probably wouldn't even mention your religion if it wasn't constantly being proselytized in their face.

Quit trying to SELL people your religion and people will quit offering you reasons why they aren't buying into it.

It's that simple Cowboy. flowerforyou

How so? Again, no one is trying to change anyone's spiritual views, no one's trying to win any competition on who has the true belief.

That, my friend, is the very basis of Christianity.

If you disagree with that concept, then I suggest that you find a religion that is more compatible with your own personal views.

as it should be,, however, as a layman, I have always found it odd how broadly the phrase 'congress shall pass no law' gets interpreted

I dont know of any such 'law' of today which establishes or abridges anyones religion.....