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| Topic: The Jesus Step | |
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I love to worship! Nothing like going to a concert filled with great music and worship. Especially one that is in a setting where you can move around and hang out with different folks while the concert is going on. I think music fests are my favorite cause it's a blend of jamming and speaking. There are usually classes going on with different topics, the concerts of course, and those small camp fire type hang outs where you grab your instrument and jump in the middle of the action. Interesting thing about this is I bet all beliefs have these types of events. I'm a little young for this but I heard the 60's love fests had blends of about everyone you could think of. I can remember playing at a few of these and after the concert would end be hanging around till everyone was pretty much passed out. Just about that time someone would hop up on stage and start worshiping and bringing the morning into a new day. What a life! People getting together to move in the direction of love! I feel the same way mg. Except I think I view things a bit differently. I don't think of it as "worshiping", to me that very word had become tainted by the religions of the world. Rejoicing at the beautiful of life and being thankful for whatever creative forces may be responsible for it? Yes. But the very idea of "worshiping" an ego in the sky who will basically be upset with you if you fail to do that,.... Well, to me, that's just spoils the whole idea. Especially if people are then going to be pointing to some book demanding that it's the verbatim demands of these ego in the sky that we are supposed to be "worshiping". From my point of view that just ruins everything. So yes, if you want to rejoice in the beauty of LIFE and show appreciation to whatever forces or consciousness might be responsible for it, then I'm with you all the way! But as soon at that get's turned into the demand that a specific religious dogma be "obeyed" as the commandments of God lest he become very upset and hateful toward people. Then I'm OUT. I want no parts of that. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. 
I certainly can understand and to be honest if we hung out together you would see that I'm really just a happy guy that found a relationship that works well for me. |
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Here's a song that was originally written by a friend of mine. He was originally inspired to write it from a poem in the Psalms. When I heard his version of the song I was inspired to change it up a little and this is the result. Awake, O dreamer Awake, O sleeper For the night is filled with song Awake, O sleeper Before the tune is gone Get up, get up Don't be down Sit up, sit up Don't be down Awake, O dreamer For the song has touched your ear Awake, O dreamer While she still lingers near Get up, get up Don't be down Sit up, sit up Don't be down Awake, my soul For the stillness waits for you Awake, my soul Before they close the gates on you Rise up, rise up Wise up, Rise up, rise up Wise up, Awake, O sleeper The night is filled with song Awake, O sleeper Before the tune is gone Awake, O dreamer the song has touched your ear Awake, O dreamer While she lingers near Awake, O dreamer While she lingers near While she lingers near While she lingers near Music here: http://users.csonline.net/designer/music/dreamer.mp3 cool |
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mg wrote:
I certainly can understand and to be honest if we hung out together you would see that I'm really just a happy guy that found a relationship that works well for me. I can certainly understand that. I fell in love with Jesus too. Who wouldn't?
He taught love and forgiveness. He basically rejected all the nasty stuff that had been taught in the Old Testament. He basically renounced the stoning to death of sinners. He renounced the judging of other people. He renounced the seeking of revenge. All of those things were mainstay directives of the Old Testament. The very idea that he would willing sacrifice his life to pay for the sins of man seems like the ultimate sacrifice as well. At one time in my life I actually even accepted that ideal. It wasn't until much later I started questioning the sense of such an idea. As you well know by now, I have since rejected that whole idea. I don't need for Jesus to be a "god" in order to love him. In fact, to be perfectly honest about it I have more admiration for him as a mortal man who was just trying to get people to behave in a far better way than their current religion had them behaving. It's no longer important to me that Jesus be "god". At least not as is held out by the Christian religion. I can still believe that he was indeed as close to god as a mortal man can be. I believe that Jesus and the Father are one. I just happen to believe that this is true of all humans. And I also believe that even Jesus himself tried to use the Torah to support that view when he pointed out that it is written in the Torah, "I said, ye are gods". It's in there, and he pointed it out. So I respect Jesus as having been a spiritually enlightened man. And that's as close to God as any human can be and still be in the human form. I don't need to believe in a virgin birth. I see no reason for that in any case. If a God wanted to become incarnate in human form what would be the difference what physical DNA was used? I also have no dire need for Jesus to have been the only incarnation of God (or the only instance of a fully spiritually enlightened man). Those things are simply not important to me. And once I have accepted that then I see no reason why other men like Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu and others couldn't also have been just as close to the cosmic creator as Jesus was. They ce5rtainly seemed to teach the exact same moral and behavioral ideals long before Jesus was ever born anyway. Why would that be if they weren't also connected to the same cosmic consciousness? I personally believe that there have been many spiritual people throughout all of history that have been in close connection with the consciousness of "God". I personally believe that the dali lama and even men like Deepak Chopra are basically modern day living messiahs. In fact, I believe that everyone has the potential to rise to that spiritual level. Once I was able to accept and view Jesus in this way it suddenly became apparent to me that there would no longer be any need to support the doctrine of the New Testament as the "verbatim words" of Jesus. From that point forward I could view those texts as merely an echo that has become somewhat distorted via the writings and rumors of others. I also don't need to believe that Jesus rose from the dead along with a multitude of saints. That's simply not something that is important for me. Once I had begun to realize that this could indeed be the truth of the situation it also became clear to me that Jesus was not the "son" of the God of the Old Testament, but rather he was the son of the real living God. Just like you and I are. There was no longer any need for me to support the Old Testament. A doctrine that I had severe problems with in any case. So for me, I can indeed "praise Jesus"!
But not as the demigod son of the God of the Torah. If I "praise Jesus" I'm going to praise him as a mortal man who was filled with the living spirit. And I'll put Buddha, and Confucius, and all other others right up there with him. If I give Jesus any "special" acknowledgment it's only because he tried to help a truly nasty and troubled society. A society that was so crude and rude that they ended up crucifying him for his efforts. In that sense, he did give his life for all that is good and holy. I can respect that. But as a 'sacrificial lamb' of a God who had planned out this whole thing for the purpose of offering men a chance at salvation,... Well, to me that just loses all credibility. I would have difficulty respecting any cosmic God who would even be associated with such a plan. That goes far beyond Jesus and gets into the very nature of God. I'm not going there. So yes, I can understand your love for Jesus. 
What's not to love? But to use Jesus to hold up the whole Abrahamic picture of a God who cannot forgive people until someone has been punished for their sins, is a bit too gross for me. At one point I tried DESPERATELY to try to salvage the Jesus story. To save Jesus from being nailed to the Old Testament God. But let's face it, it can't be made to work whilst attempting to hold Jesus up as the "only begotten son" of that God. Something's got to give. For me, it was just easier to accept that the whole thing is based on misunderstood rumors and superstitions. That doesn't remove the TRUTHS that Jesus spoke of. But it does mean that many of the TRUTHS that he did speak of may have become intermingled with other superstitions and claims. So I accept what Jesus taught by reading between the lines and realizing that ever single verbatim word that was attributed to him may not be dependable. Like Jesus might have said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light". That I can see him saying. But that doesn't mean that other men could not also be this very same thing. They have Jesus saying "No one gets to the father but through me". That I take with a huge grain of salt. Perhaps instead he said something like, "No one gets to the father but through the things I teach". Then this could also be true of others such as Buddha, etc. Even the Dalia Lama today. Just look at how a couple of words can dramatically change the meaning of things. So can I accept Jesus as a genuine spiritual teacher? Yes.
But there's no way that I'm going to hold him up to support the entire Christian religion and dogma including the Old Testament, etc. When people start doing that all it ends up being is a dogma that uses Jesus as an excuse to support a whole lot of bigotries and superstitions that I personally believe that Jesus himself most likely never even taught about or supported himself. I realize that there are verses in the New Testament that can be pointed to claim that Jesus said such and such. I'm just not prepared to accept that the New Testament is the verbatim words of Jesus. I highly question their merit to be that accurate. So I can say "Yes" to Jesus as I've described above.
But I'm not about to say "Yes" to Christianity and give support to their entire picture of God and dogma. ~~~~ By the way, I know this may sound strange, but I believe that the spirit of Jesus is indeed alive and available to everyone today. The only way that I differ from the Christians in that regard is that I also believe that this is true of all spirits. I believe like Jesus pointed out in the Torah, "I have said, ye are gods". We are all eternal spirit. 
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mg wrote:
I certainly can understand and to be honest if we hung out together you would see that I'm really just a happy guy that found a relationship that works well for me. I can certainly understand that. I fell in love with Jesus too. Who wouldn't?
He taught love and forgiveness. He basically rejected all the nasty stuff that had been taught in the Old Testament. He basically renounced the stoning to death of sinners. He renounced the judging of other people. He renounced the seeking of revenge. All of those things were mainstay directives of the Old Testament. The very idea that he would willing sacrifice his life to pay for the sins of man seems like the ultimate sacrifice as well. At one time in my life I actually even accepted that ideal. It wasn't until much later I started questioning the sense of such an idea. As you well know by now, I have since rejected that whole idea. I don't need for Jesus to be a "god" in order to love him. In fact, to be perfectly honest about it I have more admiration for him as a mortal man who was just trying to get people to behave in a far better way than their current religion had them behaving. It's no longer important to me that Jesus be "god". At least not as is held out by the Christian religion. I can still believe that he was indeed as close to god as a mortal man can be. I believe that Jesus and the Father are one. I just happen to believe that this is true of all humans. And I also believe that even Jesus himself tried to use the Torah to support that view when he pointed out that it is written in the Torah, "I said, ye are gods". It's in there, and he pointed it out. So I respect Jesus as having been a spiritually enlightened man. And that's as close to God as any human can be and still be in the human form. I don't need to believe in a virgin birth. I see no reason for that in any case. If a God wanted to become incarnate in human form what would be the difference what physical DNA was used? I also have no dire need for Jesus to have been the only incarnation of God (or the only instance of a fully spiritually enlightened man). Those things are simply not important to me. And once I have accepted that then I see no reason why other men like Buddha, Confucius, Lao Tzu and others couldn't also have been just as close to the cosmic creator as Jesus was. They ce5rtainly seemed to teach the exact same moral and behavioral ideals long before Jesus was ever born anyway. Why would that be if they weren't also connected to the same cosmic consciousness? I personally believe that there have been many spiritual people throughout all of history that have been in close connection with the consciousness of "God". I personally believe that the dali lama and even men like Deepak Chopra are basically modern day living messiahs. In fact, I believe that everyone has the potential to rise to that spiritual level. Once I was able to accept and view Jesus in this way it suddenly became apparent to me that there would no longer be any need to support the doctrine of the New Testament as the "verbatim words" of Jesus. From that point forward I could view those texts as merely an echo that has become somewhat distorted via the writings and rumors of others. I also don't need to believe that Jesus rose from the dead along with a multitude of saints. That's simply not something that is important for me. Once I had begun to realize that this could indeed be the truth of the situation it also became clear to me that Jesus was not the "son" of the God of the Old Testament, but rather he was the son of the real living God. Just like you and I are. There was no longer any need for me to support the Old Testament. A doctrine that I had severe problems with in any case. So for me, I can indeed "praise Jesus"!
But not as the demigod son of the God of the Torah. If I "praise Jesus" I'm going to praise him as a mortal man who was filled with the living spirit. And I'll put Buddha, and Confucius, and all other others right up there with him. If I give Jesus any "special" acknowledgment it's only because he tried to help a truly nasty and troubled society. A society that was so crude and rude that they ended up crucifying him for his efforts. In that sense, he did give his life for all that is good and holy. I can respect that. But as a 'sacrificial lamb' of a God who had planned out this whole thing for the purpose of offering men a chance at salvation,... Well, to me that just loses all credibility. I would have difficulty respecting any cosmic God who would even be associated with such a plan. That goes far beyond Jesus and gets into the very nature of God. I'm not going there. So yes, I can understand your love for Jesus.
What's not to love? But to use Jesus to hold up the whole Abrahamic picture of a God who cannot forgive people until someone has been punished for their sins, is a bit too gross for me. At one point I tried DESPERATELY to try to salvage the Jesus story. To save Jesus from being nailed to the Old Testament God. But let's face it, it can't be made to work whilst attempting to hold Jesus up as the "only begotten son" of that God. Something's got to give. For me, it was just easier to accept that the whole thing is based on misunderstood rumors and superstitions. That doesn't remove the TRUTHS that Jesus spoke of. But it does mean that many of the TRUTHS that he did speak of may have become intermingled with other superstitions and claims. So I accept what Jesus taught by reading between the lines and realizing that ever single verbatim word that was attributed to him may not be dependable. Like Jesus might have said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light". That I can see him saying. But that doesn't mean that other men could not also be this very same thing. They have Jesus saying "No one gets to the father but through me". That I take with a huge grain of salt. Perhaps instead he said something like, "No one gets to the father but through the things I teach". Then this could also be true of others such as Buddha, etc. Even the Dalia Lama today. Just look at how a couple of words can dramatically change the meaning of things. So can I accept Jesus as a genuine spiritual teacher? Yes.
But there's no way that I'm going to hold him up to support the entire Christian religion and dogma including the Old Testament, etc. When people start doing that all it ends up being is a dogma that uses Jesus as an excuse to support a whole lot of bigotries and superstitions that I personally believe that Jesus himself most likely never even taught about or supported himself. I realize that there are verses in the New Testament that can be pointed to claim that Jesus said such and such. I'm just not prepared to accept that the New Testament is the verbatim words of Jesus. I highly question their merit to be that accurate. So I can say "Yes" to Jesus as I've described above.
But I'm not about to say "Yes" to Christianity and give support to their entire picture of God and dogma. ~~~~ By the way, I know this may sound strange, but I believe that the spirit of Jesus is indeed alive and available to everyone today. The only way that I differ from the Christians in that regard is that I also believe that this is true of all spirits. I believe like Jesus pointed out in the Torah, "I have said, ye are gods". We are all eternal spirit.
We're closer than you think. |
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mg wrote:
We're closer than you think. I believe you mg.
And I do apologize to you for my over-reaction to you posts. There are just so many people who tend to use Jesus as a battering ram to support far deeper "religious" agendas usually connected more with things from the Old Testament than anything that was actually attributed to Jesus in any case. It's a shame that this is the way things are. But unfortunately that's just the reality of the situation. I wish there were some way to cure it. I truly do.
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Here's another song I wrote. It's not a religious song, it's a love song. But whilst I'm digging these out I thought I'd post it.
My Heart Belongs to You When I first met you all I knew Is that my heart belongs to you I wish I knew what I could do To let you know my love is true What can I say to you to help you understand? The love I have for you is higher than a mountain and deeper than a river grand I love you and that's really all I know Well I've been liv'in all alone in a cold and empty barren home and now I never seem to roam very far away from my phone I want to call you up and tell you how I feel I can't sleep another wink until I know you know the love I have for you is real I love you and that's really all I know Now you may find this hard to hear my body's trembling in fear that I might fail to make it clear my love for you is quite sincere What will I do if I fail to let you know Every time I feel you near my spirit is projected to a supernatural plateau I love you and that's really all I know I need to know that you are mine from now until the end of time to miss your love would be a crime to know your love will be sublime I need to hold you in my arms forevermore And fill you up with all my love to let you know that you're the woman I adore I love you and that's really all I know Now I'm awaiting your reply I think I see it in your eyes I feel like I can reach the sky you make me feel so high We'll come together like soulmates in a dream Making all our fantasies become our true reality through magic of our love supreme. I love you and that's really all I know That's really all I know That's really all I know My heart belongs to you Music here: http://users.csonline.net/designer/music/heart.mp3 |
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nice to see. i do not really know the name of this song but i know as a child my family sung this all the time.. i wonder if anyone else did.
it goes like this. she will be comming around the mountain when she comes. she will be coming around the mountain when she comes. she will be driving 6 white horses when she comes.. ect. ect. ring of this song has still stayed with me.. Blessings..Miles |
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It's called "She'll be comin' 'round the mountain."
It is a derivation of the Negro spiritual known as "When the Chariot Comes". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysJ-kqGy3j8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghd-xL5gAjc 
For you Miles... |
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It's called "She'll be comin' 'round the mountain." It is a derivation of the Negro spiritual known as "When the Chariot Comes". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysJ-kqGy3j8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghd-xL5gAjc
For you Miles... Thanks S1owhand Thats really cool.. I know my parents loved that song. Blessings of Shalom..Miles |
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Like a foolish dreamer, trying to build a highway to the sky
All my hopes would come tumbling down, and I never knew just why Until today, when you pulled away the clouds that hung like curtains on my eyes Well I've been blind all these wasted years and I thought I was so wise But then you took me by surprise Like waking up from the longest dream, how real it seemed Until your love broke through I've been lost in a fantasy, that blinded me Until your love broke through All my life I've been searching for that crazy missing part And with one touch, you just rolled away the stone that held my heart And now I see that the answer was as easy, as just asking you in And I am so sure I could never doubt your gentle touch again It's like the power of the wind Like waking up from the longest dream, how real it seemed Until your love broke through I've been lost in a fantasy, that blinded me Until your love, until your love, broke through http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h89-3_kIRDA |
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Edited by
mg1959
on
Sun 07/10/11 06:05 PM
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All alone drifting wild
Like a ship that's lost out on the ocean Everyone's a homeless child And it's not hard to understand Why we need a Father's hand There's a rainbow somewhere And you were born to be there But you're just running in circles Till you reach out your hand to the King of hearts. Pockets full of pain and fear That's a load there's just no need to carry Let it go and leave it here Now there's no price that's left to pay With one more mile or one more day There's a rainbow somewhere And you were born to be there But you're just running in circles Till you reach out your hand to the King of hearts. You can try to catch the wind But in the end you're only wasting precious time Life can really be so kind Once you find the truth and follow, Go on follow, follow All alone drifting wild Like a ship that's lost out on the ocean Everyone's a homeless child And it's not hard to understand Why we need a Father's hand There's a rainbow somewhere And you were born to be there But you're just running in circles Till you reach out your hand Till you reach out your hand Til you reach out your hand To the King of hearts There's a rainbow somewhere There's a rainbow somewhere There's a rainbow somewhere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDJOZEN3HUo |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Sun 07/10/11 06:21 PM
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Here's another song I wrote. It's not a religious song, it's a love song. But whilst I'm digging these out I thought I'd post it. My Heart Belongs to You When I first met you all I knew Is that my heart belongs to you I wish I knew what I could do To let you know my love is true What can I say to you to help you understand? The love I have for you is higher than a mountain and deeper than a river grand I love you and that's really all I know Well I've been liv'in all alone in a cold and empty barren home and now I never seem to roam very far away from my phone I want to call you up and tell you how I feel I can't sleep another wink until I know you know the love I have for you is real I love you and that's really all I know Now you may find this hard to hear my body's trembling in fear that I might fail to make it clear my love for you is quite sincere What will I do if I fail to let you know Every time I feel you near my spirit is projected to a supernatural plateau I love you and that's really all I know I need to know that you are mine from now until the end of time to miss your love would be a crime to know your love will be sublime I need to hold you in my arms forevermore And fill you up with all my love to let you know that you're the woman I adore I love you and that's really all I know Now I'm awaiting your reply I think I see it in your eyes I feel like I can reach the sky you make me feel so high We'll come together like soulmates in a dream Making all our fantasies become our true reality through magic of our love supreme. I love you and that's really all I know That's really all I know That's really all I know My heart belongs to you Music here: http://users.csonline.net/designer/music/heart.mp3 This really speaks to me dude given my own circumstances.......nice work.
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Love Randy Stonehill.
Great stuff mg. I believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah, the Christ. I've seen so many blessings and answers to prayer that could not be misconstrued as "coincidence". I consider myself to be an eternal student because the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know much. I love to worship too. I currently attend a local biker church; the music is always uplifting and amazing, like one big jam session. The people are so down to earth and accepting. Everyone is welcome there. I love the Lord and couldn't imagine what my life would be without him. |
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Love Randy Stonehill. Great stuff mg. I believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the Messiah, the Christ. I've seen so many blessings and answers to prayer that could not be misconstrued as "coincidence". I consider myself to be an eternal student because the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know much. I love to worship too. I currently attend a local biker church; the music is always uplifting and amazing, like one big jam session. The people are so down to earth and accepting. Everyone is welcome there. I love the Lord and couldn't imagine what my life would be without him. The Ran Man's great! |
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~~ I don't care if it rains or freezes.....~~
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Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Wed 07/27/11 05:04 AM
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Since everyone sharing something.
Kinda long i know Here's a poem i wrote :) : My letter to mankind We are human with characteristic of intelligence, charisma, problematic differences, indistinguishable love and evil. We share common traits, we have eyes, emotional smiles, flesh, blood, hearts, brains, lungs, the biology of our existence, the interchangeable fate of life and death, the conscience of great morality if we so see it. I am you, you are me, we are human, the tree of life, the pentacle of evolutionary champions, the height of love, the expression of art, the beauty of music, and the sanity of self-reflection to co-exist in a lonely universe. We go fourth in our endeavors, whether it be mother to child, child to mother, we love, we carry on for our future generation, negating any selfishness to deprive the future, we have to carry on, keep moving, motivating, and striving. We are strict in our cliché lifestyle that fits us, it’s who we are, and it’s who we’ve become. We’re born into a world, opening our eyes to new adventures, to a nurturing family, a sense of history, and a legacy of your own, as a human. We are love, the essence of its stronghold; we create rhythms, sounds, beats and harmonization of musical tones to express love through our instruments. We express it through kissing, sexual passion, holding, hugging, crying, marrying, and caring. We have our own self-reflection on what love it to us, we are all different but one in the same of expressing this emotional burden that hurts and pleases us. We are selfish in our own dehumanization of fellow humans; we’re racist, murderers, ignorant, fundamentalist, and proponents of nihilism. Where does our good morality begin, and where does it end? How many have to go hungry? How many have to suffer? Do you pray for a new Bentley, a new Christmas present, or for the children starving? Our selfishness perceives us. We’re all brothers and sisters in this lonely universe and we should stick together. We are believers and non-believers on a planet called earth, where everyone should be established on equilibrium. We’re Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Judaism, Deist, Agnostic, and Atheist yet we all share one thing, what is apparent to us - what we perceive life to be. The notion of our existence from our birth to death which does not allude us, we exist in this existence and should respect each other in this existence. We are Straight, Gay or lesbian who do not want to commit suicide because someone demonize our sexual representation that suits us, what if the world told you, you was wrong for being a heterosexual? They’re still human, flesh and blood, crying like me and you, lonely, depressed, deprived of acceptance, when does it end? Who are you to tell another to live their life? We are humans, an exponentially wise mammal, on the top of the kingdom, the power to destroy, and the power to create. We’re love, we’re evil, we’re selfish, and we’re what we make this world to be. This is our earth, our children, our brethren; let’s carry on, because we’re humane. Yes, it's long so what. :) |
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So here's the deal. I don't want to hurt any ones feelings but sometimes in the religious section it gets so tense that I just want to start praising. You would think that it would get me down but it does just the opposite for me. why would i think that an internet dating site forum would get you down. if it sometimes seems to YOU that it 'gets so tense' in the religous section then perhaps YOU might want to delve into the issue of why YOU get so tense. i don't see the tension here between folks who are able to discuss religious issues, or any other issues, in a mature manner that encourages all viewpoints. so here's the REAL deal. relax, let your tensions flow from your mind, sit back, pour a beer, coffee, what ever floats your boat and exchange views with us. |
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Thanks guys!
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