That`s fine, I haven`t argued that. You are preaching to the choir. Please don`t mention this again with the air that you are right and I am wrong. I am agreeing with what you say there: A man who says there is no god is an atheist. Clear, concise, true, I agree, no need to argue this point any further.

But you must think about how sin is punished, and why, if god said all sins of all times have been paid for by Jesus dying on the cross.

And you must think about how God can be omnipotent if he can`t commit sin or crime.

And you must think about how a person`s lips are on his or her face, not inside his or her body. Okay, women have the large and small lips (labia majora, labia minora), but they are not inside, either, they are also on the surface.

It doesnt take power to sin. It takes power not to sin. So the Omnipotence of God has nothing to do with making him capable of commiting sin. Just like it is impossible for Him to lie.

Christ paid the penalty for the sins of the world. Once and for all. Unfortunately everyone hasnt recieved Christ as their Saviour. Therefore they will be held accountable for their sin and pay the penalty.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9

in order to recieve eternal Life we must believe the gospel of Christ..

Whether it takes power to sin has not any relations to the potential of committing sin. God is incapable of sinning. This is not due to lack of power, but lack of capabitity. Omnipotence does mean ``capable of doing anything`. there is no clause that doing anything needs to be done with power.

Sinning does take power. You were even wrong in that. For instance, believing in god and accepting christ. It takes no power, it takes even less power than strangling someone or stealing. If you steal, you are running a risk, and you know that ahead of time. So you must overpower your fear when you steal. That`s power used for stealing, for sinning. Same for murder.

Hallo. Read your lines. Jesus paid for the sins for once and all. He did not say `I am only paying for the sins of those who accept me.` he did not say this, or whoever said this. The statement goes `for all`. `All` includes all, not only a select subset. I stick with this, as I am only quoting you back the things you say. So whether someone accepted christ or not, is so irrelevant to the argument that it`s staggering. Yet you insist it`s part of the argument.

Yes, Romans 10:9 says what you say it says. But in countless other places in the Evangeliums, it says different things, and one of the many is that `jesus has died for all the sins of all the mankind`.

So which is it? I believe you are stating your points by carefully selecting the verses and lines that back your point for that particular point. There are countless lines in the New Testament that belie your point. Yet you and your brethren CHOOSE TOTALLY ARBITRARILY the lines you wish to choose; and that is not right.

Because, I verily say unto you, you do not have the power to judge which word of our god jesus the christ takes precedence and superiority of other words of our god jesus the lord christ. Whatever christ said, each and every time, was the word of god; you can`t possibly tell me that `this was a small, ignorable statement` and `that was a major, important statement`. And furthermore, you can`t use the same two statments, at each of two different times, and the first time say `This is important but that is not, of christ`s words` and the second time you say `this is not important but that is very important, of all of christ`s words` This is sheer blasphemy, to say with so much certainty that christ`s statements are not all equally true, and that you, a mere mortal, have the power to decide which is more important than the other. This is hubris, pure blashemy, and an intentional wrongdoing against the will of the Lord, by your being so positively sure about your own ability to say which of god`s words are more important than other of god`s words.

In this sense you are an idiot and a blasphemer. You are a blasphemer for doing what you do, and you are an idiot for not seeing the forest for the treees. You obviously want to avoid blaspheming; but you do commit blashpemy, and your idiocy lies in not noticing at all, not seeing it, not even suspecting it by a long shot that your balsphemy is clear and MUST be insulting to god.

You are lucky god has already forgiven your sins. If he did not, all that mumble-jumble about accepting christ would not save you, seeing you condemn some of god`s statements to be less important than other of his statements.

Out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. Luke 6:45

go away from a foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge. Proverbs 14:7

surely you can take a look at these two scriptures and see that what is inside a man eventually oozes out of his mouth. in him the lips of knowledge is a term used to illustrate the heart of a foolish man and his mouth..

the natural man recieveth not the things of the spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand it, because he is spiritually discerned. The spiritual man however makes judgements about all things but He himself is not subject to any mans judgement. For who has known the mind of the Lord that He may instruct Him. But we have the mind of Christ.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son. And whosoever shall believe in Him shall have everlasting life...John 3:16

believe in Him being the key words in this passage.. Yes you must believe...

You must believe that I am who I say that I am or you shall surely Perish in your sin.. Hello!! Key word in this passage is "must believe"..

need I say more.. How much more do you need

Again, you are using a completely irrelevant text. I made a few points, and then some newer ones. You are not proving me wrong, you accept I am right in proving that god is not omnipotent, that accepting christ is not necessary when all sins of all men have been forgiven already, and you accept that you are blaspheming. You accept all these, because you are not making any statements to the contrary at all.

yes, it`s nice to read what your wrote in response, but your response does nothing, absolutely nothing, to prove I was wrong.

So it is therefore agreed that god is not omnipotent, that accepting christ is nice but not necessary for eternal life, and that you are a blasphemer.


Thanks. For conceding so quickly and painlessly. Others of your faith have put up a much longer and tedious fight before they needed to capitulate.

Buck, this is fine, but you still need to reconcile it with this line:
` He paid the [eternal death] penalty once and for all for the sins of the world.`

He paid the penalty for th sins of the world. With no qualifying conditions. he paid all sins of all the world. Without sin you go to heaven.

I am not seeing how the quote you used THIS time and the quote you used antoher time (again quoted in quote marks in my post here) can co-exist without one proving the other wrong.

I would say, make up your mind. But this is not YOUR mind that needs to be made up. What needs to be seen is what God said, and if he said two different and mutually exclusive things, AND we are not gods to say wich of his statement is more important than the other, then I say VERILY unto you, that we are screwed as far as knowing the truth.

If you boss says `clean up your desk, we`re closing early today, because we are all staying in to work overtime right now`, do you know what he means? No you don`t. Yet you claim to know what God means when he says something similar, inasmuch as God is belying one of his statements with another one of his statements.

So now I am confused; which do you believe of the two? Why is it more important to believe one statement over the other statement? Especially when both are made by god.

This... does not make sense to me, unless we accept that god is insane, or he is lying, or you are blaspheming.

But this is only one part. let's not forget the other part, the omnipotence argument.

anyone who reads these posts and are Christian will be in agreement with my interpretation of scripture. This discussion that we are having is elementary according to Our Faith in Jesus Christ. Everything I have said is in harmony with all scripture. Not just a particular scripture to drive a point.. I have given you a polemic of different scriptures that you may arrive somewhere in the vicinity. But youre stubborn heart will not permit you to be corrected. I have to go.. It is written .. do not answer a fool according to his folly lest you be like him.... May God open the eyes of your heart and cause you to believe.. Obviously you think that because He paid the penalty for all, that no one will be held accountable. Thats using one verse of scripture to support what you think. Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed correctly dividing the Word of Truth.. All scripture is God breathed and profitable for doctrine , for reproof, correction, for instructions in righteousness, that the man of God may be thoroughly epuipped unto all good works.
NO prophecy of Scripture ever came about by the prophets own interpretation, prophecy never had its origin in the will of man. But Holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Ghost.

Buck, we don't need to be harsh with those who don't' believe

yet....

we at one time did not believe either .


God is not done with anyone here yet....including

you and me.

especially me.


Wux......yes...Jesus paid the sins in full on that cross for ALL..


Jesus said it was FINISHED.

DONE.


NOW....

All that's left for anyone of us to do ,

is to ACCEPT THAT FREE GIFT OF

GRACE GIVEN.

BY FAITH....simply BELIEVE AND RECEIVE

THAT FREE GIFT that Jesus is offering

TO us All.


But some people don't YET KNOW about this free gift of grace

that Jesus paid for....and therefore is available to them,

Wux.

That is why we go and tell.....


But here's also the thing........what good is this free gift of

grace that is being offered,

if someone does NOT BELIEVE it is being offered..and therefore

won't RECEIVE IT ?


It would be like telling someone that there is a 100 million

bucks waiting in

the bank for him....that was left for him in a

WILL.....but the money will just sit in that bank

forever..IF that person doesn't really believe the money is

there....and therefore refuse to go and RECIEVE

the money.


Same with that free gift of grace that Jesus offers to us....we

have to still beleive and receive that gift..in order that

it will do us any good.....otherwise, we are still dead in our

sins....

it is only when we believe and receive the gift that Jesus

offers us,

that God is able to then step into our heart by his Holy

Spirit.....thus making us His born again children of God.


http://www.sbc.net/knowjesus/theplan.asp

didn't God intentionly and premeditately get his daughter Mary pregnant with his child and they weren't married which in itself is a sin a crime and a Jerry Springer episode....



not according to Genesis..."In The Beginning" the bible clearly indicated that there was no light until God created it ....God existed as Darkness ..



yes unfortunely these days society seem to frown upon those that go around serial killing and mass murderering people not of their faith



it could be argue that God was a homo-sexual...he create Adam long before he created Eve....why?...for what purpose?...Adam also had no idea that he was in the nude as he toiled in the garden as God watched his nude body as it glistened in the Sun



if God drown newborn babies and fetuses in the great flood wouldn't this sort of prove that he's pro-abortion ...I mean you just can't go around trying to wipe out all of Mankind and then claim that you're against abortion...seems sort of hypocritical



you seem to be implying that he failed the last time ...are you sure you're a believer? ...well if God can do anything...then it would indicate that being able to fail would be on that list



I guess being nail to the cross once is enough, it is not something you would want to repeat



you will be assimultated...resistance is futile ....we are "The STEPFORD WIVES"



I know the religious keep saying this but I just can't find where in Genesis where it states this....



lots of people were crucified ...some were even impaled ...which means that there were others that probably suffered far more than Jesus could even imagine



"Everyone Dies" .. and then you become a ghost ...according to the belief



according to the bible no Man can see God and live ...which means that death is supposedly the only time anyone ever get to see God



this is why babies go to Hell

now it's most likely that when God said let "US" make Man in our image that he wasn't talking to any other Godhead but was talking to the Angels

why?

because Satan was his most prized angel love above all others so God could have been sharing the news with him about man...also the angels most likely were also made in the image of God surely more than man since they were spirits ....

but no where in Genesis does it clearly imply that Jesus were anywhere around during Creation ...it also make no mention of any Trinity or the concept of a Trinity or three Godheads

the closest it comes to the concept of two Gods is when it states that the spirit of God hovered over the waters....but since God is supposedly not under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics then he woudn't hover he would be omnipresent and exist everywhere over and beneath the waters....this is what lead to the dispute that the spirit that hovered over the waters was most likely an angel and not a God or any God head

also some would claim that Gabriel is the Holy Spirit and that it was Gabriel that hovered about The Waters in Genesis ...

so unless anyone can find anything or any passage that clearly states that Jesus as God or as The Son was there during Genesis, then as of now there is not enough evidence to place Jesus on trial for any crimes against humanity since it can not be establish beyond a rumor that he is God

if no evidence can be provided then it's time to move on and see if Jesus made his biblical debut in The Garden or Eden before the fall and committed any crimes there

funches = awesome. Cheers!