Topic: Military commission: Lift ban, allow women in combat | |
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Ah, Jessica Lynch. See there is a misunderstanding. She was not in combat unit. She understands this, and does not consider what happened to her to be heroic. I don't either. She was in a rear echelon unit whose very experience says a lot about why what happened to her happened. If she wasn't trained for this type of encounter and she went beyond her training then I would say she is heroic! But i don't know what her training was. Well what happenned to her unit was an example of the difference between her unit and a combat unit. If you remember they were lost. They made a wrong turn. An example of a lack of training in basic land navigation. Something combat units are thoroughly trained in and vital to mission success. The fact that she survived when all other members of her unit survived is another reason women should not be allowed to serve in combat units. Rather than being a hero she was a pawn used as propaganda against our military. The very same reason our military tried to make her a hero. She survived because they wanted her to so they could use her to turn public opinion against us. Our military used her as an example of heroism, which she to this day rejects, to counter their efforts. If she was a man she probably wouldn't have survived. Not just because he was a man, but because she/he would have fought to the death. |
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the only reason I support it is because denying women combat duty limits their ability for promotions within the military.. frankly I look forward to the day when equality of the sexes isnt about women trying to do everything men do, but rather men doing everything women do instead.... It would also weaken our military. Some veterans I've known that have been in Vietnam right in the middle of vicious fighting said the ones they feared the most were the women fighters. Only because our society and military do not look favorably on the act of killing women. We had the very same experiences fighting against the Hitler Yougen units in WWII. |
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Ah, Jessica Lynch. See there is a misunderstanding. She was not in combat unit. She understands this, and does not consider what happened to her to be heroic. I don't either. She was in a rear echelon unit whose very experience says a lot about why what happened to her happened. If she wasn't trained for this type of encounter and she went beyond her training then I would say she is heroic! But i don't know what her training was. If you remember they were lost. They made a wrong turn. An example of a lack of training in basic land navigation. Something combat units are thoroughly trained in and vital to mission success. The fact that she survived when all other members of her unit survived is another reason women should not be allowed to serve in combat units. Rather than being a hero she was a pawn used as propaganda against our military. The very same reason our military tried to make her a hero. She survived because they wanted her to so they could use her to turn public opinion against us. Our military used her as an example of heroism, which she to this day rejects, to counter their efforts. If she was a man she probably wouldn't have survived. Not just because he was a man, but because she/he would have fought to the death. well I wasn't there that day so I cannot say with absolute certainty that that is what happened. I do know there was a group trying to discount the whole incident and that went over like a fart in church. i remember hearing that some of her unit did not survive that encounter, Piestewa was one of them who died.....we have the formerly known Squaw peak named after her. |
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WASHINGTON — A military advisory commission is recommending that the Pentagon do away with a policy that bans women from serving in combat units, breathing new life into a long-simmering debate. Though thousands of women have been involved in the fights in Iraq and Afghanistan, they have done so while serving in combat support roles — as medics, logistics officers and so on — because defense policy prohibits women from being assigned to any unit smaller than a brigade whose primary mission is direct combat on the ground. On Friday, a special panel was meeting to polish the final draft of a report that recommends the policy be eliminated "to create a level playing field for all qualified service members." If it were approved by the Defense Department, it would be yet another sizeable social change in a force that in the past year has seen policy changes to allow gays and lesbians to serve openly for the first time in the military and to allow Navy women to serve on submarines for the first time. The newest move is being recommended by the Military Leadership Diversity Commission, established by Congress two years ago, and expected to send its report to Congress and President Barack Obama in the spring. The Army is doing its own internal study of the question as well. The new report by a panel of retired and current military officers says that keeping women out of combat units prohibits them from serving in roughly 10 percent of Marine Corps and Army occupational specialties and thus is a barrier to promotions and advancement. Should women be allowed to serve in military combat roles? "The Armed Forces have not yet succeeded in developing leaders who are as diverse as the nation they serve," said the report, which also touched on recruiting and a range of other issues affecting the diversity of the force. "Minorities and women still lag behind white men in terms of number of military leadership positions." Women generally make up about 14 percent of the armed services. Of the roughly 2.2 million troops who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, more than 255,000 have been women, said Pentagon spokeswoman Eileen Lainez. Pentagon figures show that as of Jan. 3, 110 women had been killed in the war in Iraq compared with about 4,300 men. In the Afghan campaign, 24 women have been killed compared with more than 1,400 men. Opponents of women in combat question whether they have the necessary strength and stamina. They also have said the inclusion of women in infantry and other combat units will harm unit cohesion, a similar argument to that made regarding gays, and that Americans will not tolerate large numbers of women coming home in body bags. Supporters of the change reject those arguments. "It's something whose time has come ... a logical outcome of what women have been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the Army and Marines have been essentially ducking the policy," said Lory Manning of the Women's Research and Education Institute. "They come up with the (term) 'attaching' someone to a unit as opposed to 'assigning,' but they've been doing it for nine years now." The current policy "represents a huge glass ceiling for servicewomen," Anu Bhagwati, former Marine Captain and executive director of the rights group Service Women's Action Network, said. "It is archaic, it does not reflect the many sacrifices and contributions that women make in the military, and it ignores the reality of current warfighting doctrine." Matter of fairness? Since promotion to many senior positions in the military is dependent on combat experience, changing the policy is a matter of fairness, she said. The new report challenges predictions that a change would have ill effects on the units. "To date, there has been little evidence that the integration of women into previously closed units or occupations has had a negative impact on important mission-related performance factors, like unit cohesion," the draft says. "Furthermore, a study by the Defense Department Advisory Committee on Women in the Services actually found that a majority of focus group participants felt that women serving in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan have had a positive impact on mission accomplishment," the report says of a previous independent study. Top defense leaders have said they see the change coming someday. In answer to a question, Defense Secretary Robert Gates in September, for instance, told Reserve Officer Training Corps students at Duke University that he expects women to serve in special operations units, the kind of commando teams known for stealth missions. Gates said he expects women eventually will be allowed into special operations forces in a careful, deliberate manner. The new report recommends a phased-in approach. First women in career fields and specialties currently open to them should be immediately assigned to any unit that requires that specialty. And the Pentagon and individual services should implement a phased approach to open to women additional career fields and units involved in direct ground combat, the report said. Lainez said the department will review the recommendations when the report is delivered. But regardless of what becomes of the policy, she noted that women will continue to be drawn into combat action. "Women in the military continue to make tremendous contributions and profound sacrifices," Lainez said in an e-mailed statement. "Women will continue to be assigned to units and positions that may necessitate combat actions (even within the current restrictions) — situations for which they are fully trained and equipped to respond." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41083172/ns/us_news-life they are in combat... they fly jets, helicopters... and how many have died in iraq and afganistan? what about Jessica lynch... remember her? how long was she a hostage? raped, beaten with 2 broken legs... Ah, Jessica Lynch. See there is a misunderstanding. She was not in combat unit. She understands this, and does not consider what happened to her to be heroic. I don't either. She was in a rear echelon unit whose very experience says a lot about why what happened to her happened. well, i have to disagree... she was in iraq, during a war, and in a military unit with hazardous missions... does that sound like combat? maybe she didn't shoot at people, but she paid the price... Less than 5% of the US Army personnel are Combat MOSs. The difference between the two might be, and usually is, roughly 20 miles from the front. Iraq was unfortunately different. Mostly with Jessica's Unit was that they got lost and wondered into an area the main body had not traveled or already cleared. Do to the nature of the rapid movement and slight resistance to the movement of the main body. They were unqualified for the position they found their selves and the enemy took advantage of their very unqualified nature. Had they been a combat unit the enemy would most likely realized their position and melted away as they did against all our combat units. The Iraqi's realized they were not up to the combat effectiveness of our combat units. The war was not a real test of our military and indubitably leads to the misconception of the dangers of combat. |
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Ah, Jessica Lynch. See there is a misunderstanding. She was not in combat unit. She understands this, and does not consider what happened to her to be heroic. I don't either. She was in a rear echelon unit whose very experience says a lot about why what happened to her happened. If she wasn't trained for this type of encounter and she went beyond her training then I would say she is heroic! But i don't know what her training was. If you remember they were lost. They made a wrong turn. An example of a lack of training in basic land navigation. Something combat units are thoroughly trained in and vital to mission success. The fact that she survived when all other members of her unit survived is another reason women should not be allowed to serve in combat units. Rather than being a hero she was a pawn used as propaganda against our military. The very same reason our military tried to make her a hero. She survived because they wanted her to so they could use her to turn public opinion against us. Our military used her as an example of heroism, which she to this day rejects, to counter their efforts. If she was a man she probably wouldn't have survived. Not just because he was a man, but because she/he would have fought to the death. well I wasn't there that day so I cannot say with absolute certainty that that is what happened. I do know there was a group trying to discount the whole incident and that went over like a fart in church. i remember hearing that some of her unit did not survive that encounter, Piestewa was one of them who died.....we have the formerly known Squaw peak named after her. She was, she does, and has said so. Refusing to take the label the military stamped on her. Just like Tillman's family did when the Army portrayed his death as heroic. |
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Less than 5% of the US Army personnel are Combat MOSs. The difference between the two might be, and usually is, roughly 20 miles from the front.
Iraq was unfortunately different. Mostly with Jessica's Unit was that they got lost and wondered into an area the main body had not traveled or already cleared. Do to the nature of the rapid movement and slight resistance to the movement of the main body. They were unqualified for the position they found their selves and the enemy took advantage of their very unqualified nature. Had they been a combat unit the enemy would most likely realized their position and melted away as they did against all our combat units. The Iraqi's realized they were not up to the combat effectiveness of our combat units. The war was not a real test of our military and indubitably leads to the misconception of the dangers of combat. you said something a minute ago about combat training and maybe that is the key...if they go in a war situation, maybe it should be that all that are going should have weapons and training. that seems to make some sense, anyway... |
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Edited by
mightymoe
on
Fri 01/14/11 08:31 PM
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She was, she does, and has said so. Refusing to take the label the military stamped on her. Just like Tillman's family did when the Army portrayed his death as heroic. they outright lied about tillman, tho... that should have never happen... |
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Ah, Jessica Lynch. See there is a misunderstanding. She was not in combat unit. She understands this, and does not consider what happened to her to be heroic. I don't either. She was in a rear echelon unit whose very experience says a lot about why what happened to her happened. If she wasn't trained for this type of encounter and she went beyond her training then I would say she is heroic! But i don't know what her training was. If you remember they were lost. They made a wrong turn. An example of a lack of training in basic land navigation. Something combat units are thoroughly trained in and vital to mission success. The fact that she survived when all other members of her unit survived is another reason women should not be allowed to serve in combat units. Rather than being a hero she was a pawn used as propaganda against our military. The very same reason our military tried to make her a hero. She survived because they wanted her to so they could use her to turn public opinion against us. Our military used her as an example of heroism, which she to this day rejects, to counter their efforts. If she was a man she probably wouldn't have survived. Not just because he was a man, but because she/he would have fought to the death. well I wasn't there that day so I cannot say with absolute certainty that that is what happened. I do know there was a group trying to discount the whole incident and that went over like a fart in church. i remember hearing that some of her unit did not survive that encounter, Piestewa was one of them who died.....we have the formerly known Squaw peak named after her. She was, she does, and has said so. Refusing to take the label the military stamped on her. Just like Tillman's family did when the Army portrayed his death as heroic. The credited with saving Gabrielle Giffords life said the same thing, he ask everyone to remove his name the hero column. To me anyone who is not a professional in the rescue or law enforcement business and goes out of their way to help others like what happened here are heroes. Police and fire are trained to do this and do so day in and day out...it's their job. I find her to be heroic regardless of what she says. |
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I think we should steer away from the Iraq war when we give examples for most heroism, as the Iraqi military was an already defeated Army when Bush needlessly invaded.
They were not an adequate enemy and as such were not a typical challenge to our forces. All of our enemies will not throw down their weapons and melt away to our forces. Many despite the odds will stand and fight to the death just as history has shown our combat units will. |
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She was, she does, and has said so. Refusing to take the label the military stamped on her. Just like Tillman's family did when the Army portrayed his death as heroic. they outright lied about tillman, tho... that should have never happen... And Jessia says they outright lied about her hroism and subsequent rescue. |
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Jessica Lynch sat down with Joy Behar to discuss the still controversial details of her rescue. The two spoke in an interview on HLN, CNN's spinoff network, formerly CNN Headline News and now HLN or Headline News.
Jessica Lynch, 27, is a former Private First Class (PFC) in the United States Army Quartermaster Corps. On March 23, 2003 she was injured and captured by Iraqi forces but was recovered on April 1 by U.S. Special Operations Forces, with the incident subsequently receiving mainstream and non-mainstream news coverage. There is still much mystery about the exact details of her rescue. Jessica Lynch did not want to be a hero Jessica Lynch has long said she did not deserve hero status. For one, everyone else in the vehicle she was in the day she was captured was killed. Thus, she did not want to be credited or portrayed as a heroine. In fact, on April 24, 2007 she to Congress. She said that she had never fired her weapon; her M16 rifle jammed, as did all weapons systems assigned to her unit. She was, additionally, knocked unconscious when her vehicle crashed, and did not remember many of the events. Additionally, Jessica Lynch said that people continue to blame her for the hype that surrounded her story. Watch the HLN interview below. http://www.huliq.com/3257/jessica-lynch-speaks-joy-behar-tries-set-record-straight-rescue |
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'Little girl Rambo' decries US propaganda
The former US private Jessica Lynch today condemned what she said were Pentagon efforts to turn her into a "little girl Rambo", and accused military chiefs of using "elaborate tales" to try to make her into a hero of the Iraq war. Speaking at a congressional hearing on the use of misleading information, an emotional Ms Lynch described how she suffered horrific injuries when her vehicle was hit by a rocket near the Iraqi town of Nasiriya in March 2003, killing several of her companions. The US military has come under criticism for allegedly spinning stories from Iraq and Afghanistan. The hearing is also looking at the case of the American football star-turned-solider Pat Tillman, who died in a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan in 2004. The Pentagon initially put out the story that Private Lynch - a slight woman who was just 19 at the time - had been wounded by Iraqi gunfire but kept fighting until her ammunition ran out. In fact, her gun had jammed and she did not fire a shot. A video of US commandos carrying her from a Nasiriya hospital was released at the height of the conflict. Ms Lynch has criticised Pentagon efforts to use her for propaganda purposes before. But her appearance today, before the House committee on oversight and government reform, chaired by an ardent Bush administration critic, congressman Henry Waxman, inevitably will take on a political dimension at a time when the White House is under strong pressure on Iraq. Mr Bush today reiterated his pledge to veto a funding bill, approved by the Democratic-controlled Congress, that sets a deadline of next April for US troops to withdraw. Ms Lynch criticised the Pentagon, saying: "I'm still confused why they lied and tried to make me into a legend." Ms Lynch said the real heroes were those who died in the attack and those who rescued her. Initial reports also suggested that Ms Lynch had been abused after she came round in the hospital. She said the reports were lies: she had been treated well and the Iraqis had tried to return her to US forces. "The nurses tried to soothe me and return me," she told the hearing, adding that she objected to the way in which the US military had portrayed her. "American people don't need to be told elaborate tales" about US forces, she said. Pat Tillman's relatives were not told of the true circumstances of his death until five weeks after his funeral. The Pentagon initially informed them that he had died while storming an enemy position, a version it quickly realised was wrong. Private Tillman's death received worldwide attention because he had turned his back on a $3.7m (£2m) contract with the NFL team the Arizona Cardinals to enlist in the forces after the September 11 2001 attacks. In a report in March, the Pentagon's inspector general said Mr Tillman's relatives had not been told the truth even though commanders knew soon after his death that he had probably been killed by fellow soldiers. He recommended that action be taken against nine officers, including a number of generals, but found no evidence of criminal wrongdoing or any deliberate cover-up. The committee issued its first subpoena since Democrats took power and Mr Waxman became committee chairman. Dr Gene Bolles, the neurosurgeon who treated Ms Lynch in Germany after she had been rescued in Iraq, was the target of the subpoena. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.marktran |
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Many in the Bush Admin should be in jail for the propaganda they spread.
Now let's get back to reality. Women should not be in combat units. |
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Interesting development! What are your thoughts about women serving in combat units? While I was in the Navy I was talking to a Navy seal once about women in combat and his thoughts about it.He said you can capture a soldier,burn him,beat him,torture him and he won't say a word.He said all you have to do to get information out of a female soldier is tie her to a chair and threaten to cut all of her hair off and she will tell you anything you want to hear. On top of them being soft and cracking easy under pressure,if they were captured they would be raped probably hundreds of times.I don't think the American public would like to hear of female soldiers that were captured that were being raped on a daily basis.Leave the combat to the men.Women are not cut out for it.That is why in boot camp women do half of the physical requirements men do. |
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If they wish to join the military then so be it.....why not allow it It's not just the military. It's combat units. Women are already allowed in the military, just not combat units. I think this is the problem. I don't think people understand the difference. I got that......if they want to join the military it should be any part or branch of the military....that is what was meant.....no problem in understanding....didn't know women were in special forces either...... |
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Capt. Nichola Goddard
Capt. Nichola Goddard, 26, had been serving in Afghanistan with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. She was a member of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, based in Shilo, Man. Goddard died about 6:55 p.m. local time (10:25 a.m. EDT) in a military operation against Taliban forces near Kandahar, where the majority of the country's 2,300 soldiers in Afghanistan are serving. Canadian soldiers had been called in to support Afghan troops fighting in the Panjwai region, about 24 kilometres west of Kandahar. Goddard was Forward Observation Officer and crew commander. ................................................................ Trooper Karine Blais Blais was killed while riding in an armoured vehicle in the Shah Wali Kot District north of Kandahar city. She was serving with the 2nd Battalion, Royal 22nd Regiment battle group, based at Valcartier, Que. Four other soldiers were hurt in the blast. She is the 117th Canadian soldier to die in the Afghan mission since 2002 – and the second woman – the majority of whom were killed by roadside bombs ................................................................. Master Cpl. Kristal Giesebrecht Master Cpl. Kristal Giesebrecht and Pte. Andrew Miller, both medics from CFB Petawawa, had been responding to a report of a mine found in the doorway of a home when their vehicle detonated the IED, the military said. The blast occurred about 20 kilometres southwest of the city of Kandahar. .................................................................. They can do the job as well as any man .............. let them. |
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Interesting development! What are your thoughts about women serving in combat units? The only women butch enough to serve in combat won't like it because the military doesn't issue comfortable shoes. My daughter is not 'butch'. Do I want her in combat? Hell no!!!! Does she want to be on the front lines. YEP. She is a patriot. Do I fear for her. YEP!!! Will I support what she feels she needs to do... Of course. She is not less than a man. |
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Capt. Nichola Goddard Capt. Nichola Goddard, 26, had been serving in Afghanistan with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. She was a member of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, based in Shilo, Man. Goddard died about 6:55 p.m. local time (10:25 a.m. EDT) in a military operation against Taliban forces near Kandahar, where the majority of the country's 2,300 soldiers in Afghanistan are serving. Canadian soldiers had been called in to support Afghan troops fighting in the Panjwai region, about 24 kilometres west of Kandahar. Goddard was Forward Observation Officer and crew commander. ................................................................ Trooper Karine Blais Blais was killed while riding in an armoured vehicle in the Shah Wali Kot District north of Kandahar city. She was serving with the 2nd Battalion, Royal 22nd Regiment battle group, based at Valcartier, Que. Four other soldiers were hurt in the blast. She is the 117th Canadian soldier to die in the Afghan mission since 2002 – and the second woman – the majority of whom were killed by roadside bombs ................................................................. Master Cpl. Kristal Giesebrecht Master Cpl. Kristal Giesebrecht and Pte. Andrew Miller, both medics from CFB Petawawa, had been responding to a report of a mine found in the doorway of a home when their vehicle detonated the IED, the military said. The blast occurred about 20 kilometres southwest of the city of Kandahar. .................................................................. They can do the job as well as any man .............. let them. These women, although dying in sevice to their country, were not in Combat MOSs. Come now fury old friend, you should know better. Besides, aren't we talking about the US Militaries policies? What are the Canadian Military policies regarding women serving in Combat MOSs? |
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Edited by
karmafury
on
Tue 01/18/11 01:14 AM
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These women, although dying in sevice to their country, were not in Combat MOSs. Come now fury old friend, you should know better. Besides, aren't we talking about the US Militaries policies? What are the Canadian Military policies regarding women serving in Combat MOSs? Today, women make up 15 per cent of the Canadian military with over 7,900 female personnel currently serving in the regular force and more than 4,800 women serving in the primary reserve. Out of that number, 225 women are part of the regular combat force and 925 are enlisted in the primary reserve combat force. In May 2006, Canada experienced its first loss of an active combat female soldier. Capt. Nichola Goddard died on the front lines during a battle against the Taliban in Afghanistan http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/women-cdnmilitary.html The Canadian Armed Forces opened all occupations, including combat roles, to women in 1989. Only submarines were excluded and they followed in 2000. |
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Bro No way man I was in the military I served in Spec Ops unit for a short time before I had my daughter, when I had her I switched careers but anyways
The reason you keep women out of combat units is because when a woman get captured by the enemy the way men from foreign Armies torture women is very bad and inhumane they rape them and it is a sad fact and people don't recognize this, when a woman is in a combat role it triples the chance to get caught by the enemy then when a woman does not have a combat role they have female fighter pilots and that's dangerous too, this isn't sexist this is protecting our woman and I think its right to keep them off the front lines |
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