LOL

I am a Veteran. US Infantry, SGT.
My advice to you is quit relying on the US to carry the load for every other country.
If we want a war we don't need anyone else.
You may have viewed the situation safely from a ship but try it from the ground.
Iraq folded up before the US Army like a retard would from a school bully on the playground.


What did we lose? 42 men?
It will be a whole lot worse with N. Korea. Maybe 100 times worse in the first week.

It is fortunate that all the armchair warhawks on these forums have no power in the real world. They'd make the US the laughing stock of the world (even moreso than it already is), not to mention start a "hot" war with people who can actually fight back (unlike murdering unarmed citizens and rag-tag fighters in the desert). These armchair hawks would also make everyone dirt poor by expanding the warfare/welfare state.

Eisenhower was right about about the military-industrial complex. Dismantle it and bring the soldiers home.

What were you elektec?
5 when Desert Storm happened?

Ok Sgt.......name ONE war that the US has fought and won on there own.....You may be a vet, but I'm involved now. Things have changed. And FYI Canada does not rely on the US, our ties are to Britain. We just supply you with oil lol. anyways...

If I may,

First and foremost people forget General MacArthur had invaded China against Washington's wishes and he was recalled. MacArthur wanted to nuke China as well chasing the N Korean Army into China. Most of the soldiers in the push back from the Yalu were Chinese, not N Korean.

Now in deference to our role as world peace keeper, it is time to hand the UN the bill for our wasted efforts! China also owes us BIGTIME for the oil they are getting from Iran. Their loans funded their oil grab through us. America is being played! If anything we need to step in, stomp ***, colonize these piss holes, show them a better way of life, and not only teach the people to defend themselves give them the weapons to do so. We need to educate them, teach them to feed themselves, and come down on corruption but corruption is what drives our government right now. The real problem hides behind the MIC! Hell, if the UN was more than an ineffectual debate society they would have pressured China out of Tibet. China is a murderer of cultures as well as its own.

"...Colonize these piss holes, show them a better way of life...". Well, it looks like you've learned nothing from the failures of imperialism and military fascism. I pity you. It is sad that people in civilized society still have such a backward, ignorant view of the world.

Well (IMHO) war may not necessarily be an eventuality. china has already pretty much openly condemned the actions of north korea, and have a lot of money invested into the US.

I think we need to be talking to china instead of north korea directly. Since china, north korea's only ally, would have nothing to gain from such a war, they might be able to put N. korea on a proverbial leash.

OH? Well look at China and you tell me who has learned anything from history? Now let us look at Mexico. They are right on our boarder and what have they learned from us? Now look at Afghanistan. Tell me what anyone has learned from that fiasco? We leave the Taliban moves right in unchallenged. many nations have prospered from us being there and when we leave they fall apart like the Phillipines. It is only recently when they began to stabilize their situation.

What is sad is how cheerful and optimistic you are about human nature. It is one thing to occupy a territory and squeeze it of its resources while providing the local population nothing in return much like Iraq has had to endure. Bush was WAY too slow to get that country's infrastructure up and running after crushing them like bugs. BUT we have tried to get them stabilized and they can't get a handle on the situation. Why? China is playing games behind the scenes.

No do not pity me. I have no pity for anyone anymore. I am sick and tired of the whole "Poor People" mentality. People make themselves poor especially when they have no resolve to do for themselves!

Hell, Vietnam enjoys a highways system built by Army Corps of Engineers! Think I am kidding?

So please refrain from the Egaltarian prestige of terminal Peace! Some populations need guidance they cannot provide for themselves! SUCKS BUT TRUE! Look at Africa in General! More than enough said!

Actually the evil Iran regime is an ally of North Korea also.

LOL
The civil war.
The Mex/American War.
The Spanish/American War.

As a percentage of the whole we get very little oil from Canada.

The US is the 3rd largest producer of oil in the world.
# 3 United States: 8,457,000 bbl/day

Canada is 7th behind Mexico.
# 7 Canada: 3,425,000 bbl/day

And to be so sparsely populated they consume almost all of what they produce.
Oil > Consumption 2,371,000 bbl/day

AND, provided very little military assistance to Desert Storm.
2 Squadrons of aircraft and 4 ships. 1 a hospital ship and 1 supply ship.

None of those wars listed really count. The Civil war was American fighting American. The south was subsidized by the French a lot.

The Spanish American war, Spain was not a world power any more. They were easy to beat up on. France loaned us a lot of money before and after since we destroyed Spanish interests in the East.

The Mexican American war was partially subsidized by France who had an active interest in vengeance after getting tossed out of Mexico themselves.

Now let us look at WWII. If I remember Canadians took Utah beach on D Day. There were a lot and I mean a LOT of Canadian troops in the Pacific as well. Frankly Canada backs us in a lot more ways than you know or understand. SAC NORAD is operated in conjunction with Canada! We also ship army and Marine units to train in Cold Weather Combat in Canada. We likewise participate in War Games with Canada and the Canadians also participate in OPFOR training mission where Canada works hard to pretend they are Russians adopting their combat tactics and methodology against us. Canada has been our BEST ally over Britain and are the only nation to Rival Japan as an ally in all ways they could be allies. Canada has also played host to secret weapons tests involving our Anti Missile systems which many nations have a seriously vested interest in like Japan for instance.

Now in all fairness Canada's border is 1000% safer and less porous than Mexico's border. Mexico does not have a gang war going on. Canada also boasts a well equipped and well trained defense force with disaster response that makes ours pale in comparison! Canada is also a lot less corrupt politically than us too!

In all fairness Canada not only offers us more as an ally than most nations but they likewise live up to a very high standard that many here don't seem to appreciate much. Do not forget a lot and I mean a LOT of transport for war materials is done by Canadian transport! Also let us not forget that Canada offering one of its two or three hospital ships actually means a lot more than other nations who contribute nothing but sit back in the UN and ride us about all our evils when they themselves are part of the problem!

I am not kissing Canadian azz. I have no interest or stake in Canada. I am also not saying this to impress Canadians. This is a God Damn Fact. Without Canada and Japan and Germany and other nations with real integrity on our side we would be sunk against moral-less nations like China or blind and corrupt ideologies like communism which took a glorious nation like China, one with a lot of potential and incredible history once they gained the strength to be self determining again but lost it to greedy, evil and morally bankrupt individuals who use their power for all the wrong reasons and drag China down by becoming like us in their ambitions. Without our friends we would be the victim of Militant Islam.

Face it, Japan had to be forced to behave. Now 65 some odd years ago after we nuked them they became a powerhouse economy and did so with integrity and honor. Worst is Japan is caught between us and North Korea AND China.

Fanta, I dislike war but when it has to be fought we cannot do it like we have in the past. Vietnam and Korea were wars that should have been fought the right way. We should have nuked China and let General MacAurthur FUQUING CRUSH communist China and we would have more peace today. Russia would have been a lot more eager to talk peace knowing we had the balls to really fight a war and quit letting banks profit from the ensuing misery!

Frankly we should never have been in Vietnam. They came to us looking for help and we spit on former allies! Then they went to China who helped them under the "enemy of my enemy is a friend of convenience" plan and they screwed us good becasue we fought Vietnam like Korea. NOW China is pissing all over Vietnam!

War is good when it is fought for real and you do so with the resolve to win at any cost to the enemy as long as they are beaten down to submission or taken completely out of the picture!

Feel free to call MacAuthur a nut case but remember HE was the one who peacefully subjugated Japan AFTER the surrender! He insisted on keeping the emperor in power. Had he not have done that we would have had to genocide the Japanese becasue they were ready to fight us to the last one with Bamboo poles if that was all they had on hand! It would have made the aftermath of our invasion of Iraq seem like a peaceful day in a park in comparison. Genocide was a real option discussed by our military after Japan was invaded because they KNEW the Japanese people would have resisted to the last one.

With a Nation like N Korea they understand only one thing, having all of their military forces wiped out with tactical nuclear strikes followed by a massive invasion that comes hard and fast and if their forces hop the border to China we chase them into China blasting on them all the way. The Chinese would be smart to block them from retreating into their country and let us do what we have to and thank us when it is over and Korea is unified again. If China wants in on it too and tries to pull the same shi* in the 1950's we let them have it too and nuke on their military! The whole time we pound China's azz with nukes we have discussions with Russia about their reconstruction and who becomes favored trade nation so they know as long as they let us do what we have to they will not be touched.

It is time this BS was over and Japan didn't have to sweat n Korea getting all pissed off at S Korea and dropping a nuke on them just because they are pissed off and want attention!


Too bad they don't have a heavy breathing smiley!

Utah Beach was all US.
The Canadians were part of the force on Juno Beach.
Officially they were part of the UK then.

Not to belittle the 45,500 brave Canadians who died during the war, but
Even though they entered the war earlier than us,
with the British,
their over-all casualties were 1/10th of ours.

The Spanish/American War was what ended Spain's dominance as a world power.
Logistics was the most defining reason for our easy victory.

The Mex war was us just kicking Arse.
Territorially motivated.
The French had economic problems at the time
and unrest at home.
Happy to have left Mex victoriously in 1839.
They didn't want any part of the Mex/Amer war,
and we didn't need their help.

I just read this entire thread. Certain people have tossed out misinformation and generalizations. Some of that has been corrected already. Some hasn't. In the end, it doesn't really matter.

You see, when you have a powder keg, sooner or later it's going to blow. For decades now, the Middle East and North Korea have been the two big powder kegs. The Middle East is a much more complicated scenario than North Korea.

In fact, the only way North Korea will be neutralized is by a change in government. Does anyone realize how short North Korea is on food and medical supplies? Most of what they have goes to support the government and the military. Why are North Korean soldiers so loyal? They receive three meals a day, decent pay, a roof over their heads, uniforms, and medical care. That's way better a life than they would have as a civilian. Why shouldn't they be loyal? Of course, North Korea were to start a war and it went poorly for them, how many soldiers would turn against the government? Would a civil war ensue to oust the current government?

My point is that North Korea needs to be dealt with once and for all, but the situation has been blown all out of proportion by the spectre of nuclear weapons. North Korea has steadily isolated themselves from the world community> If a war begins, it will probably be much smaller than many expect UNLESS nuclear weapons are used. It would be idiotic for North Korea to begin a war, but then again the government of that country has rarely made sense in its foreign policy for the past 30 years or so. They have the most to lose in a war, so if they start one, b*tch slap back into place.

On the other hand, just because Iraq is making the transition doesn't mean the Middle East is in the clear. That mess has direct ties to Nazi Germany through the foundation of both Israel and the PLO. On top of that there are a multitude of religious and cultural issues. Then add oil to the mix.

To put it simply, Islam is approaching a defining moment. Many Muslims are not radical or extremist, but is the more radical factions that are dictating policy and forcing a wary eye to be cast upon the whole region. When the powder keg finally blows in the Middle East, it will ignite a change within the Islamic religion, and whichever faction comes out on top will likely be in position to direct that change. If we are lucky, such a change will actually allow the Middle East to overcome traditional cultural differences, and unite them under a more peaceable interpretation of Islam.

Your right. There is a lot of misinformation about the situation going on. People only see the trees, not the forest. Iran is a HUGE instigator of all this BS. BTW, it was Britain that apportioned the borders of the middle east! Blame them for the cultural mess. The Nazis had nothing to do with the founding of Israel but Israel is responsible for the PLO. The thing is the PLO was corrupted from within. So who is to blame for that. on top of that the UN does NOTHING to solve the problems of the world. If they did China would be out of Tibet for one!

The founding of Israel was in response to Nazi Germany. And, Nazi Germany was responsible for the founding of the PLO throughout Yassir Arafat's family. They held meetings, supplied finances, and even some equipment. Furthermore, Nazi Germany helped with diplomatic pressure throughout the Middle East to create anti-Israel sentiment. The hatred of Israel is largely due to the legacy of Nazi Germany, and yet Israel's own actions have done little to assuage that sentiment.

The PLO might not ever gained the endurance or strength it enjoyed without the support of the Nazi government.

Back to the Korean situation. There is a logic that applies to modern conflicts as to the how and why of the way things are done. None of this applies to North Korea because their leader is a nut. His only real ally is China. Various arms deals with others such as Iran don't affect the situation much, no matter how much the sale of enriched uranium to Iran may affect the middle East. Il just needs the money.

So far, NK makes threat and it either gets ignored or it gets him some food, oil, a nuclear plant, or something else he needs. It has no real adverse consequences. He continues to make the claim that any real adverse consequence will include a million deaths in the South or a nuke into Japan or some other greatly exaggerated boast which causes enough fear to get him something.

Many believe that Il's reign will cause an economic collapse and that all we have to do is limit aid from other sources and his country will fall. South Korea is very afraid of this event because the result would be millions of starving refugees and/or the movement of the South to take over the North and inherit all it's woes. The South does not want this.

A similarity to the Islamic world is that North Korea brain washes it's people from birth to hate the west and view them as deadly enemies.

We have some anti-missile capabilities but rather short range. Il could probable take out a carrier battle group with a series of Silkworm missiles armed with nukes or a barrage of nuke medium range missiles. The retaliation from our attack subs would eliminate the North's cities and military bases but the exchange would be a big price to pay to get rid of the nagging problem.

I think we should blockage the Country (technically we are still at war) and cause an economic collapse. Just like Saudi Arabia would like to see Iran fall, I think China is tired of North Korea and all it represents.

Maybe China could just step in and Annex it.

The nuclear threat and Kim Jong Il's mental instability is exactly why no one is willing to instigate a war. Is this a serious situation? Sure. But like Metalwing pointed out, the key is to destabilize the government by other means. My point is that war or no, the North Korean government needs to be removed to end this distraction which is becoming more and more worrisome, and yet it is not nearly as complicated as other trouble spots.

If Kim Jong Il wants to start a war, he will do it as a temper tantrum. That's why everyone is concerned about nukes. But once he starts it, there is no turning back no matter how bad a tantrum he throws. In the end, he will tire himself out, or he will be beaten and left to sulk. He wants to be revered as a god, but once his mortality comes into question, the citizens will slowly begin to see the chinks in his armor (no pun intended, sorry). One way or another, Metalwing is right....North Korea will do itself in - it's only a matter of time.

All too true. China actually does have a problem with illegal immigration FROM N Korea already. The whole thing is though that appeasement does not work. Iran is a problem we needed to address since Jimmy Carter's failed term as president. Frankly we should have invaded back then but Carter's need for his personal ideals for peace set the stage for what we have now in the middle east.

Here is what I would love to see happen myself, We blockade N Korea and this means China MUST participate and force Kim Jong Il from his seat of power by making them starve out! No aid, no nothing goes in or out. We take all of our assets from Iraq, send in a real sub wolf pack with at least one Trident sub so we can nuke the hell out of them in the event they launch on our carrier group we deploy, and we blast the clergy and the leadership of Iran just like we did to Iraq! The only difference is we hit them SO hard that Syria and Palestine feel the concussion from the blasting we inflict on them. After we tear their azzes a new one we sweep right into Afghanistan, and we shove all the way through Pakistan on the Taliban and Al Quieda and if Pakistan has a problem with that they can make all the noise they want but if they get froggy with us we put them in their place just as hard as we do to Iran.

After that may JUST maybe we can have a little peace! And if you want to go Nazi hunting, go to Argentina! Seig heil baby!

Not what I was getting at Andy....just pointing out a little fact about how the PLO got off the ground in the first place. After 65 years, everything escalates and becomes so convoluted because of all the instigators involved that no one remembers how it all began.

I have often likened Israel to Northern Ireland as far as the bloodshed there, and I know quite a bit about the history of Ireland.

Back to North Korea...

Good points about the illegal immigration and appeasement. That's why I say the problem needs to be dealt with now rather than later. Koreans (both North and South) typically do not like the Japanese (long history there which goes much further back than WWII). It's only a matter of time before this nuisance distraction becomes a threat to the Pacific Rim with Japan being the first target. And South Korea would love an excuse to have backing to invade the North. One thing we don't want is for China to get fed up and move on their own against North Korea. THAT would REALLY complicate matters.