Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: When do billboards go to far?
lil_bit Joined Fri 01/25/08 Posts: 1685	Sun 12/05/10 04:08 PM
I try to remain open to beliefs, but I also believe that people should be allowed to privacy in their personal faith and beliefs. I get offended when local religious organizations come to my home and push their beliefs on me and I find it very intrusive when they are so myopic and refuse to listen to my retort when I ask them to respect my beliefs. Again, I respect personal faiths, but there needs to be a line when broadcasting personal beliefs.

yellowrose10 Joined Tue 12/11/07 Posts: 52804	Sun 12/05/10 06:32 PM
Religion is about belief (whether it's Wiccan, Christian, Atheists, etc) You know, we keep having people come in here and declare that atheism is a religion. To make anything even remotely resembling a sensible argument, they carefully pick their interpretation of 'religion' so that they end up with simply "Strong atheism is a belief", and they equate "religion" with "having a belief". In the more common usages of the word 'religion', its laughably false to call atheism a religion. Weak atheism doesn't even qualify as a belief. Of course just about any quality you can find in a theist can be found in some atheist somewhere, and any quality you can find in a church can be found in some 'atheist organization' somewhere - being atheist doesn't preclude you from having a kind of atheistic religion; its just not, itself, a religion. My point in the above quote was that it's based on belief. No one can prove it either way scientifically....but that's a whole other thread lol. I put Atheism in the religions basically to include them. I don't care who thinks it's not. I believe it is a religion. The Supreme court even ruled Humanism was a religion. Whatever catagory someone puts it in is an opinion. My point throughout this topic is all sides do it. I have no problem with any belief until it attacks another (from any side) I just don't agree with it. It's like a school yard bully that has to put down someone else to make their point better or to feel superior. IMO that is what this billboard is doing.

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 12/05/10 07:08 PM
One correction. The Winter Solstice is celebrated on the 20th-22nd, depending on when the switch from fall to winter falls. This years its the 21st. This is a separate holiday then the 25th. There are also several other pagan holidays that get going on the 17th, and go for anywhere from 7-10 days (that "lost time" on the calendar) to a full month. The 25th is a pagan Roman holiday celebrating the birth of Mithra, whose story is almost an exact match to the story of Jesus. Except it predates Jesus's story by a few hundred years, so Jesus borrowed or stole the story line, depending on how you look at it. It's also the birth of Sol Invictus or the Invincible Sun, again, celebrated long before the birth of Jesus. My point is, Christians didn't even celebrate Christmas until towards the end of the Victorian time frame. So the irony of them screaming that they are badly treated is something of a joke. The holiday was far more secular back then, and has only, I'd say noticeably, in the past 15 years or so, become a "battle" between Christians and others. Atheists happily celebrate the season, but are get royally tired of having the misleading religious aspect shoved down their throats. No but according to the Julian Calender the Solstice was on the 25th. It wasnt changed until the Church adopted the Gregorian calender.

Chazster Joined Tue 08/28/07 Posts: 6206	Sun 12/05/10 07:19 PM
Reading through all these posts I am surprised at the number of people that don't think anyone trying to tell another that their beliefs (no matter what they may be) are false or a myth is rude. For the person that said my muslim holiday wasn't good enough. I have muslim friends and they celebrate it but fine I will change it. Its like telling Japanese people that their ancestors don't visit them on Obon.

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Sun 12/05/10 07:58 PM Edited by massagetrade on Sun 12/05/10 08:01 PM
Religion is about belief (whether it's Wiccan, Christian, Atheists, etc) You know, we keep having people come in here and declare that atheism is a religion. To make anything even remotely resembling a sensible argument, they carefully pick their interpretation of 'religion' so that they end up with simply "Strong atheism is a belief", and they equate "religion" with "having a belief". In the more common usages of the word 'religion', its laughably false to call atheism a religion. Weak atheism doesn't even qualify as a belief. Of course just about any quality you can find in a theist can be found in some atheist somewhere, and any quality you can find in a church can be found in some 'atheist organization' somewhere - being atheist doesn't preclude you from having a kind of atheistic religion; its just not, itself, a religion. My point in the above quote was that it's based on belief. No one can prove it either way scientifically....but that's a whole other thread lol. I put Atheism in the religions basically to include them. I don't care who thinks it's not. I believe it is a religion. Tell me, yellow rose - if you think atheism is a religion: What is atheism? The Supreme court even ruled Humanism was a religion. And this is relevant how? Of course there are atheistic religions. Buddhism is also a religion, and has atheistic forms. If you had listed religions and included humanism, I wouldn't have objected. If you had said that 'strong atheism requires a single belief, and I consider holding a single belief to be having a religion' I might not have objected either. While humanism might be a religion in the sense that Christianity is a religion, 'atheism' is no more a 'religion' than 'theism' is a 'religion'. Whatever catagory someone puts it in is an opinion. By 'it' do you mean 'atheism' or 'humanism', since you seem to have confused them earlier? And regarding your statement: yes and no...you can say that all language usage is a matter of opinion, but then there is no point in baffling the dog lighting's red running overcoats by sinking phlegm. To treat language as completely arbitrary is to descend into nonsense. Edit: To be clear, what I'm saying here is that once we agree to use language in a certain way, its no longer only an opinion when we categorize something. That thing either has the qualities associated with that category, or doesn't. IMO, saying that such things are a matter of 'opinion' is taking the easy road, and denies the facts of the matter. My point throughout this topic is all sides do it. I have no problem with any belief until it attacks another (from any side) I just don't agree with it. It's like a school yard bully that has to put down someone else to make their point better or to feel superior. IMO that is what this billboard is doing. I can see how you might see that as a consequence of the billboard, but I don't agree with this assessment of the motivation behind the billboard.

yellowrose10 Joined Tue 12/11/07 Posts: 52804	Sun 12/05/10 08:09 PM
well it's an opinion. I see it as an attack..others don't. I wouldn't agree if Christian do this to attack Atheism either. it is relevant in the argument that Atheism isn't a religion. As far as I am concerned...it is. Atheism is the belief that there is no deity. But as I have said...this is my opinion. But those that don't agree with me will say I'm wrong. I might be wrong in your opinion, but when it comes down to it....it's what an individual believes. There is only opinions...

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Sun 12/05/10 08:59 PM
well it's an opinion. I see it as an attack..others don't. I agree there is more than one way to look at this. As far as I am concerned...it is. Atheism is the belief that there is no deity. Strong atheism is that belief, thats correct. And theism is the belief that there is a deity, and yet I think its wrong to say that theism is a religion, in the general sense of the word. There are theistic religions, just like there are atheistic religions, but neither theism nor atheism itself is a religion. Many theists aren't even aware that there are completely separate atheistic 'religions', as they tend to lump all atheists into one camp, and wrong believe that atheists by definition share more than one belief in common. But as I have said...this is my opinion. But those that don't agree with me will say I'm wrong. I might be wrong in your opinion, but when it comes down to it....it's what an individual believes. You mean about whether or not atheism is a religion? Some things are simply not a matter of opinion. Do naturally conceived, carried, and born cows generally have six legs? Is that a matter of opinion? Does water flow downhill? Is that an opinion? Maybe thats not fair, because those are physical facts and not human created labels. Lets deal with human labels: Is Ecuador located in the continent of Asia? Does a moon always orbit another body? Is it legal to walk down the middle of an interstate highway? These are not opinions, unless you completely abandon the advantage we gain from agreeing to a level of consistency in language use.

yellowrose10 Joined Tue 12/11/07 Posts: 52804	Sun 12/05/10 09:06 PM
That all depends on who is asking. Even in the law...there are loop holes. The definition of religion can pertain to Atheists....depending on who is interpreting. The definition of religion can be seen (fact) but the interpretation of the definition can be different (opinion)

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Sun 12/05/10 09:27 PM
That all depends on who is asking. Even in the law...there are loop holes. I think thats being a bit slippery. As one english speaker to another, if I assert that the country Ecuador is in Asia, aren't I, in fact, wrong?

yellowrose10 Joined Tue 12/11/07 Posts: 52804	Sun 12/05/10 09:46 PM
It's all semantics. The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. Just as Buddhists (follow a teaching/philosophy) is considered a religion. All in interpretation and who is to say on is wrong or right? We are getting a bit off topic though lol I'm bowing out of this topic now so I don't further hijack the topic

massagetrade Joined Thu 02/22/07 Posts: 8505	Sun 12/05/10 10:30 PM
It's all semantics. Yes - and in some cases there are correct usages, and there are incorrect usages. I was hoping you would at least agree with that foundation. The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. Well I should hope not! Where would that leave the animists and such? This has nothing at all do due with whether atheism is a religion. Note that at no point did I argue that atheism isn't a religion on the basis of a lack of belief in a supreme being - in fact, I intended to make clear that theism is also not a religion. All in interpretation and who is to say on is wrong or right? If you think that a 'stop' sign says 'go', and as a result die in a car crash...well your death may be an indicator of who is right and wrong.