why whenever someone has an idea or a program intended to help out less fortunate people or people down on their luck is it labeled socialistic with intentions to produce a kneejerk reaction born out of some half remembered Mcarthy era red fear? and let me make a few points that im sure will come up 1. im not advocating overthrowing our govt and replacing it with a total socialistic soceity,i think our capitalistic democracy,while not perfect,works well enough and could just use some tweaks. 2. the problems greece and other smaller european socialistic democracys have had i dont think apply. america is one of the richest nations in the world and with the appropriate application of our tax dollars and resources i dont see how some of these safety net programs would be a prob.we waste too much money on nasa,warmongering,overpaying govt officals,the war on drugs,foreign oil,big buisiness tax cuts,and the bail out to name a few 3. yes people do and will abuse these programs,but that doesnt mean we should deny honest people the help they need. people abuse perscription drugs but we dont outlaw them,we dont ban guns because of gun related deaths and murders(im agaisnt gun control btw) the abuse is unfortunate but unavoidable you will always have someone trying to cheat the system or tryin to get a free meal. this just means you must police the application of these systems more diligently 4. im am not advocating a particular or specific bill or program like for instance the health care reform i havent read the bill so i cant say one way or another if it is good or bad the IDEA of this bill and other programs is what i refer to and i know many people feel strongly about these issues and are certainly entitled to their opinion but please no name calling or angry rants im trying to promote intelligent conversation and am not interested in verbal fisticuffs. i have been fortunate to have had steady employment and supported myself,i have worked 40 plus hrs a week 52(minus vacation) weeks a year for the past 20 years but i realize not everyone has and while it is certainly true in some cases they are not all lazy there are a myriad of reasons that someone would have trouble staying gainefully employed

In the case of the US, the more money spent by the government, the more taxes have to be collected and the more administration is required by government employees to administer the new program. Taking care of all who cannot or will not take care of themselves is an expensive proposition and socialistic in nature. This process tends to create an unproductive society and generally can be credited with a primary reason for the failure and collaspe of the former Soviet Union.

The policy of the US in years past where hard work and low taxes was rewarded is credited with the growth and success of democracy.

It is well established that the government is not efficient at spending money. Part of historic socialism is the reduction of the classic family support system and replace that responsibility with government controlled care.

The US does not have the money to pay for current programs. 41% of every tax dollar collected is used to pay for the interest on previously borrowed money. Think about what happens when the cost of borrowing money (now at record low interest rates) doubles.

one of the reasons that i had said i wasnt suggesting an entirely socialist govt is exactly the example you give, the soviet union. i believe that as tax paying citizens we should be entitled to certain benefits thru our taxes namely education and health care,not necissarily the new health care reform,i understand that to accomplish this would be no easw task because your are right that the government is unefficient at spending money. i just have a hard time believing that this could not be accomplished through an overhaul albeit a massive one of our spending agenda. i by no means want our govt to provide regulate or have their hands in every aspect of our basic needs of survival and do not pretend to have the answers. maybe our,or rather our govts,spending bills and plans need to be written out by some third party econmists or congress needs to be put on budget billing it just seems like an awful lot of tax payers money is missused or just plain wasted

one of the reasons that i had said i wasnt suggesting an entirely socialist govt is exactly the example you give, the soviet union. i believe that as tax paying citizens we should be entitled to certain benefits thru our taxes namely education and health care,not necissarily the new health care reform,i understand that to accomplish this would be no easw task because your are right that the government is unefficient at spending money. i just have a hard time believing that this could not be accomplished through an overhaul albeit a massive one of our spending agenda. i by no means want our govt to provide regulate or have their hands in every aspect of our basic needs of survival and do not pretend to have the answers. maybe our,or rather our govts,spending bills and plans need to be written out by some third party econmists or congress needs to be put on budget billing it just seems like an awful lot of tax payers money is missused or just plain wasted

The idea of democracy is that everyone deals with self-sufficiency themselves.........In socialism, the government cares for its dependent population.........the problem is when you allow the government to institute more and more policies towards programs helping the people through people that are helping themselves taxes......then you over spend using monies you do not have in order to support those groups, as well as, get more governmental control into your lives and everyday decisions..........and think we have enough fail safes and thats where they should end

im not advocating a total socialistic govt i dont think every living neccesity should be provided. what about a low income family who cant afford ins whose child gets sick should the parents have to work 70 hrs a week to pay hospital bills? and should that same child be denied the chance to go to an institute of higher learning just because of the finacial situation its born in?

I think we need to double check whats socialism is...communism is the form of govt where all is equal and the govt has control. Similar to socialism in several ways but there are some major differences. Hitler-Socialist Stalin-Communist. Two VERY different styles of govt and leaders.

The differences are becoming blurred.

Oopsy DBL Post

Just ask yourself what you are willing to give up to get it? Just ask yourself would I rather work 70 hours freely given for my own cause or indenture myself in ways I may not be able to imagine to get services from the government? Maybe the government will give you what you want............maybe they wont, but what will they take from all of us for what they give? Our souls, possibly? Make us wrok 90 hours or volunteer on top of work required and how many hours would they require on top of your regular job for volunteerism..........I do not see how any program could possibly be worth it......

how about stop wasting money on nasa and wars we have no business being in just to name a few examples of wasted tax dollars

and thats quite a jump from health care and education for all to nazism would like to know how you made that link

Paying taxes at the state and county level takes care of education. (how many times has YOUR school district raised levies through the local community)...

Why then should I also have to pay additional taxes to the Federal government for education (which may or may not actually effect MY locality or provide funds to persons living close to me)?

Health care is not a function of the Federal government. (indeed in order to provide National Health Care that same Federal Government would need a tax base that would SCARE you - do the math).

My 'federal' taxes should provide for defense of the nation, securing of the borders, and fair and equal justice. THAT SHOULD BE THE ONLY FUNCTION OF THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT.

so you do not agree that our tax dollars are being wasted in any areas that could be redirected and put to better use? is the war in iraq really keeping our boarders safe?and i am not disrespecting the military they do a job i would not want to do and i am thankful of them but they should be,like you say,protecting our boarders not in the middle of a war that has nothing to do with us and prob cant be won

NASA not a waste of money.......war I agree with peace needed for all

War is peace.

1984 anyone?

ok youre right nasa is not without merit and or benifit i just think with the current economic situation it could be scaled down a bit until other pressing matters are solved. its like going out for steak instead of buying bolagna when you dont even have enough money to pay the power bill

Hey dont knock fried bologna dangit..............steak terrible for you anyways......