The space defined by the existence of our universe is not infinitely large.



And yet, the chemical reactions which conserve 'numbers of electrons', and which favor 'filled out shells of 8 electrons' and such still happen. Its very much as if numbers existed whether or not there was a mind to conceive of them.

Relationships exist that numbers are handy at representing.

Existence is dependent on the relationships not the representations of the relationships, and thus when we use numbers to represent these relationships they may seem eternal themselves. I would for myself would call that equivocation.

Just because we do not have a Bachelor or Masters in Science does Not mean that we are stupid. It doens't take a rocket scientist to figure out just WHAT is going on in our society. It doens't take a scientist to talk about science or take a politician to talk about politics. It takes simple minded people with a little bit of insight to know what really is going on.

Firstly.....Science IS in the hands of the government. Our government runs everything from the type of gas that you use in your car to ...and ESPECIALLY to....what is getting out to the public about science and its advances...or dare I say...disadvances of science. EVERYTHING, and I mean 'for everything', there is a buy off price. We bought off the independent person that came up with alternative for fuel many many years ago...therories are bought. Now the goverment says we need to look to "other" sources for our fuel. We've had a cure for Aids for a long time; but try to prove it against "science". The government will take you down...in a heartbeat! Herbal is the cure. Because the Food and Drug Administration does not 'acknowledge' it...it is not scientific. Bah Humbug! Isn't it kind of ironic now that you see so much information about herbal remedies??...theories are bought. And now science is faltering and starting to test and say that this herb or that herb is good for whatever. I'm not sure if you know; but...the drug companies run our country. And just like it was stated above...money runs this country. God IS a big part of it in that 90% of our Country believes in "faith" of something unseen and UNPROVED.

So I will question EVERYTHING and believe what my intellect and 'faith' trust me to believe. And you can take your so-so-scientific smarts and go somewhere where YOU think that it is more appropriate or more knowledgable. And yes...it IS a conspiracy theory and the Aliens are our so called leaders.

Woah, thanks for quoting those comments. Somehow I missed them on my first read of this thread. S/He made several good points.




They said 'any one government', and they were right. The government funds/participates/meddles with some part of the whole of scientific inquiry, but not all of it.



Are you saying you can cure AIDS with herbs? Which herbs?



It seems to me that you are oversimplifying. Amongst scientists, some herbal remedies are acknowledged as being effective, others are not because there is a lack of evidence that they are.



Um... no, scientific researchers have had their eyes on the plant world as a source of remedies from the very beginning.




Please contact me. The resistance needs more people like you, who can see through the lies we are being fed. The future of humanity is at stake.

Hi Massagetrade I realize that most of our medicines are based on our plant heritage and has been that way for a very very long time. Science is faltering because they are allowing the drug companines to run our world. And closing down herbal houses where people might go to try to find something to heal whatever ails them.

No thank you on the resistance. I have a hard enough time trying to keep a house over my head with this recession we are deep into, of which our leaders are trying to convince American that we are out of <lol>.

Hi!



I would agree with you that there are many things foul in the interplay between huge multinationals in our global capitalist economy and other power structures and means of influence (financing politicians' campaigns, marketing, buy influence with doctors, etc). The actions of big pharma strike me as yet another manifestation of this, along with companies from other industries (like BP, microsoft, and monsanto).

I simply don't see this as a problem with 'science'. It seems to me that some in the pro-herbal camp wish to discredit every aspect of the scientific establishment, not just those pieces which have an unfortunate corporate influence.

So, you started with your argument, but right after the second paragraph (I counted the first little one), you go on to insulting anyone that doesn't agree with you. How is this any different from the type of aggressive self-defense people just like you claim only comes from the religious?

You probably answered your own question in your fifth paragraph. Science doesn't answer to the common person. They prove their theories in a forum among people who are either driven or rich enough to achieve those "qualifications". People that have spent years being indoctrinated with the material.

The point here was, are we really to beleive anything as true? Any scientist is fully aware that today's facts could be tomorrow's refuted theories. And, at the end of the day, scientists require funding to do any kind of research. Depending on who's paying the bills, is it so reasonable to think that they would deliberately look for facts that make their theory seem correct?

Just look at the politics between Edison and Westinghouse when they were fighting over whether AC current or DC current was better for powering the US, just for example. Edison started executing animals, then eventually criminals with AC current to show the people that it was deadly, even though DC wasn't any different. The point here is, regardless of your irrelevent pieces of paper that say you're smart, regardless of your contribution, a scientist is just another human, who ultimately, is no different than any of us.

And I would never call Psychology good science. My opinion, experience is a far better teacher of true psychology. That's why there's a new, completely over-diagnosed disorder ever 7 minutes. It's a war against personality.

Let's look at depression for a minute. Psychology tells us it's an illness caused by a chemical imbalance. I would tell you, while it may very well cause a chemical imbalance, it's just the result of knowing your life isn't what it should be. You shouldn't be struggling to survive while 1% of the US population has more money than they could even spend. You shouldn't be paying for college, when your idiot jock cousin gets in for free. You shouldn't be dreading the day you have a serious medical trouble and your financial life as you know it ends, perhaps right before you.

This attitude about science saddens me greatly. Not becuase its true, but becuase its so simplistic. Sometimes when you simplify something enough it ends up being nothing like the original thing, in this case its just plain wrong.

I wish I had time right now at work to really go into this topic. I will try to dig in tonight to make clear what I know to be true.

I still haven't seen a response on what herbs cure AIDS!

I agree with you Bushido on how sad the attitude on science is. But considering how poorly it's taught in schools, barely at all anymore, the attitude is bound to show.

Yep!

There are sciences that I really like. Biology being one. That's because I can see it in action. It is easily observable. I like physics. It's fundamentals are easily observable by anyone who cares to set up a simple experiment. Is this the original, non-simplified thing that you'd like to tell me about?

Perhaps it wouldn't be that way if authority didn't keep going such lengths to ruin people's trust in it. I'll tell you, I'm not a big fan of doctors. If I ever get cancer, I'll just stay home and die of it if it comes to that. At least I won't conveniently die when my insurance runs out, like my grandfather.

From what I understand, being HIV positive does not mean you have AIDS.

Also, in your body you probably have cancer cells, and viruses for thousands of diseases and maybe for every disease known by mankind that you will never contract.

The key to a cure of most disease is the body. The body cures itself. In the case of AIDS, the immune system is not working so the body can't cure itself.

So the treatment for AIDS has to be something that helps the immune system start working again. To do that you have to look at what may have caused it to stop working.

Today, modern medicine often treats people with things that destroy the immune system. There is the beginning of the problem.

Remember the boy in the bubble? He had no immune system. In those days, they had no name for the disease. It was just a broken immune system.

Now, they seem to think a virus can cause the immune system to be damaged or destroyed.

Until they find a way to strengthen the immune system so that it can combat HIV, a person with HIV MAY contract aids.

But there are a lot of people with HIV who do not contract aids. Why do you suppose that is? Well, my guess is that it has something to do with an immune system that knows how to prevent that.

As far as herbs are concerned, maybe there are herbs that aid the immune system. Maybe if people eat real food, good food etc. and take care of their health they will be less apt to get sick.

But don't forget your immune system. Drugs and treatments don't cure anything. Your body does.

Now to get on topic.

My view of science is that it is the business of observing the nature of reality.

If humans could know everything about their world and how it works, then eventually they will be able to control it.

Within science, there is a community, and like all communities, there are egos and arguments and politics.

Scientists should push forward and ignore the politics and the egos and just do what they are supposed to do and forget about their egos and their politics.

But if a scientist fails to dream and speculate he will not get very far. They should not cling to what they think they know so tightly. Our perception of reality, is bound to change when we learn more about the truth.