Oh, I am sure pot is okay, it never killed anyone nor made them abuse people....but good for you!..Is there a reason you indicate that you do drink occasionally?

Did you notice i said "No i do not drink or smoke dope any more"

And i see pot just as bad as drinking, because it's not the act of doing these things that makes it wrong. Not ALL people that get drunk get abusive, not all get sex crazy, and so on. It's the fact they don't have as good control over themselves as when they are sober is why we aren't to drink. Same goes with pot, pot can be used for many things. It's not because people would just end up smoking those objects. For instance, pot makes one of the strongest forms of rope. But they don't make it out of rope because people would just buy it to smoke it.

At the tender age of 11 to 13, I had great plans for my future. All the things I would experience, all the things I would learn and all the people I would meet, were part of that dream.

So I thought about what Heaven is supposed to be - pretty much what is quoted above. And I wrote some prose about it

I'll begin in the middle (remember I was no more than 13 at the time.

"...Do you believe in the more traditional concepts of God?
Will we all go to a spendid garden of Eden?
Perhaps only those 'deserving enough'?
Will there be any 'deserving enough'?
Do YOU want to be there, one of the deserving?
The ultimate goal - teh unemotional high of highs.
The calmest of all calms.
Will you sit around a campfire singing praises to God?
Will that be the greatest of social encounters?
Will we be zobies walking around speaking the words,
"Peace unto your Brother, Love to you Sister?
What do those words mean when there is only peace, quiet, calm, serenity -
And only 'thought' to be your friend.
Is it all worth the striving -
to be only a single 'thought' in space, one among many.
Always level, never gaining new insight, new knowledge?
No new challenges, no decisions.
If that is your desire, I wish your achievment of it.
But there we part company,
I want adventure, new frontiers, new knowledge,
I want to face the challenge of the unknown.
For me a new plane of existance will be at hand,
and another after that.
But maybe somewhere, somehow, I will touch you.
That single peaceful 'thought' in space.
And I will drain all the use out of you and leave you to your peace.
For I don't want what you desire.
If that is God's grace you can have my share.
For I don't want God's grace, I want to meet him,
learn from him and then take my leave of him.
He will not need yet another worshiper,
He will have his faithful supporters captured
in gratuidous calm.
And perhaps he'll smile as I leave
for he'll know I am a friend he can call on -
somewhare in the vastness of all time, space, searching for adventure in the great unknown."

Life can be extremely tough, as so many of you know, but what reward would be sufficient without the unexpected?

Wait a minute - there is a lack of logic in here somewhere...

Oh yea - If one moral exists in heaven than all of them have to - unless of course you already know which one God will change. You know, like a 'Third Testament' since you no longer need Jesus or his teachings - not heaven. What would be in heaven to test your?

Is that not the point of the final judgement - or is there just another kind of judgment complete with NEW hurdles and tests to determine the next step up the ladder.

Wow, sorta sounds like Karma.. No actually it sounds alot like Abra was correct - just another stage in the testing period and another rung up in the hirarcical chain of command.

Yes - that single thought in space.

As if posting this was anything less than a lame excuse to slander Christians.

You keep preaching "Intolerance" from the the religions and yet you have to post something like this to do what exactly?Not to debate.It is a sorry excuse to get a bunch of people together,grab a hand full of mud and smear it in the face of us "intolerant" Christians.Nice two face double standard you have there.

If you are somehow trying to gain support by your fellow Atheist by posting idiotic statements like this.Don't bother.Nobody is going to support a hypocrite who can't even make the slightest bit of effort to practice what he is preaching about.

Feel free to get up on your soap box now and please tell us anxious listeners who are craving for a good debate something along the lines "Christians dress funny" or perhaps "What kind of car Jesus would drive".I know your next post will all leaving us craving for more or your brilliant insight.



Atheism-The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

About ‘the body’ and death

The following would seem to indicate that the body is a necessary component of the whole person.



Notice that the body (with all its members – eyes, hands, mouth, legs etc.) are joined with the spirit and together they create a temple in which the Holy Spirit resides.

So unless your demise and subsequent ‘salvation’ includes the “whole structure” YOU will cease to exist and only the Holy Spirit within you will be free to continue its journey. No loved ones – only a memory of those it experienced while in its temple.



Of course the Holy Spirit must be very conservative – or maybe the law is just a protective measure to assure that the Holy Spirit gets the most out of its ride.

Could the untimely death or a disabling harmful action lead to a heavenly lawsuit for incompletion of the objective. Sort of like requesting a refund.

– Harming anybody (any body) is a sin, a logical approach to keep such refunds from being requested.

But then we have the contradictions:



Notice that the desires of the flesh & eyes are not from the Father but are of this world.

To me that says that emotions are of this world and will not continue into the next. So the desire to spend eternity with loved ones - to see them and be with them again, is not the objective and so it is not logical to use that as a basis for desiring heaven.



I think binary code must be the standard in heaven – I/O
I wonder - how is control of the switch determined?

i don't think you have the right to talk about atheists that way. what are you trying to do, get support from all the other Christians to try prove your unprovable views? smear mud in the face of all of us tolerant atheists? face the facts, science is provable, made up of experiments that can be done over and over and get the same results. evolution is here to stay. some "magical being" just snapped it's fingers and here we are...might as well read harry potter, about the same thing. your "faith" makes you blind, you cannot even see beyond your bible. if god didn't say it, it's not true. if it goes against the bible, your going to hell. so Christians are the only people that have a right to say what they want? all religions are ignorant, blinded and scared peoples that believe in the magical being. wake up, your religion is doing nothing but holding people back.

More about the body and death:



Obviously this verse is not REALLY about dismemberment of your individually assigned body.

The Bible explains that the members of an individual body are all part to the whole - and likewise that all humans are members of the whole (of the Holy Spirit).

Therefore, what this verse is saying is that when one of your members (friend, father, mother, child)sins and is unrepentant, yuou must cast them off - "it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell."

So there's no sense trying to change get them to repent, that MUST BE THEIR desicion - your decision must be to save yourself from the path of destruction that person has taken.

Of course that makes all evangelists seem a little hypocritical and it also seems incongruant with the whole "hate the sin but love the sinner" for what love is portrayed in the above - only one love "self love" in the guise of a salvation that has been (at best) portrayed with vast contradictions.

You see, its the part about "do not cause harm to others" - what is harm? If we consume beyond the carrying capacity of the land on which we live - but we continue to cosume at the price of slave labor - have we caused harm?

If we continue to use coal and oil without concern for the ecological damage that it caused - including toxins in our water supply and in our food sources - is that harm to others?


What is harm????

NO GAMES IN HEAVEN - that would be competition and someone would have to lose and what's the point of competition if there is nothing to be gained?

Am I the one starting these insulting posts towards Christians?You can look at several hundred posts that have been posted in the General religion chat I can promise you 90% are in relation to Christianity and the majority of that 90% is some type of post that is negative and hostile towards Christianity.How many posts are started by Christians degrading and saying negative things about Atheism?

What I believe is my own business.Christians including myself are not preventing you in any way from believing anything you want to believe or not believe in.Just like any American in this country I have the right to free speech including expressing my faith in my religion.You don't have to listen to it.You don't have to be apart of it.

You Atheist are really living in a fantasy world.How is Christianity in anyway personally affecting your life?

So there are good spirits and bad spirits but the only good spirit is the Holy ghost for whom the body and all its members were specifically designed to house.

To avoid temptation of evil and to avoid the mistake of 'inviting' a spirit into the body the mind MUST BE GIVEN OVER to the Holy Spirit, for is it not the Holy Spirit who is to guide your actions?

But this presents a conundrum. If a person overrides Holy Spirit control and becomes possessed - the person no longer has control - so what happens to the Holy Spirit are they in there together?

If the person has no control(being possessed)then he cannot acknowledge his mistake, so either the two spirits battle over control of the individual or one of them just leaves (abandons control of the body). Which is it?

Furthermore, according to the quote above, if the person is possessed, it is of his own will and accordign to a bible verse, quoted in a previous post, that member has falled to sin and must be cast away.

So many questions and so much contradiction - the world, for some, is a scary place indeed, spirts, possession, temptation - afraid to act, afraid to change, afraid of misinterpreting the law. Sounds like heave is not about love but about abandoning fear of the unknowble and uncontrollable.

Clarification: Marriage as a religious ritual may well be as you describe. But Civil marriage has no connection to such ritual.

And once again there is a contradiction - because here on Earth in this physical form it is being argued that the TRUE and TRADITIONAL marriage ritual is for procreation.

Of course - I understand that sexless procreation might exist in heaven, but what would be created? would they have souls and would they need saving? Oh but then perhaps Satan is defeated and there is no further need for salvation.

Please explain to me why this is not a logical thought process?

well, my "fantasy" world has no magical beings in it...
i think your the one that went off on atheists. i do not believe in any religion, i think they are bad for people. ALL religions step up and tell me how i "should" live my life. right now, as we speak, the baptist in texas are blocking putting gambling on the ballot. why? because they know how i should live my life. the Christians are helping them. again, they know better than me. Catholics... the worst of all of them, are the biggest hypocrites of all. they think that a priest child molester is a good man. why else would they hide a boy raping priest, instead of turning him in? organized religion is nothing but a control factor. and what makes it worse, is that you people know it and still support it. believing in god is one thing, i never will have a problem with that, but telling me i can't live my life because they don't agree with it....i will always have a problem with that.

Obviously heaven will include an extremely limited population - I would not set my sights on a huge reunion with loved ones.

This is a complicated question that we could spend weeks debating.But in it's simplest terms the Holy ghost is more less a blessing.Many times while you are in church you will hear "the Holy ghost is in this place".When you are truly living your life for God and when you are truly doing what the bible tells you,then the Holy ghost will be with you and walk with you.Even as a Christian if you are not doing what you should be and not following the bible the Holy ghost will not be with.

I think it is hard for Atheist and other non Christians to understand the concept of evil spirits.They fail to understand that as Atheists Satan will gain nothing by deceiving them.Satan of course will cause Christians much more grief and misery because he knows he will have much to gain if he can get your typical Christian to get upset enough to turn his or her back on Christianity and not believe in God or Jesus.I believe this is why if you ask Christians about evil and good spirits they can usually give you a story about personal experiences including dealings with Satan and his Demons.


Despite what hollywood shows you I have never heard or seen a person that has been possessed by evil spirits to the point where they can not control their body or their thinking.In any case a priest or just by faith alone should be able to drive a demon out of anyone's body.A demon will not have any reason to stay in a persons body who is not doing things to welcome and feed it.


A person is either doing things to welcome the Holy ghost or a person is doing things to drive the Holy ghost away.You could drive the Holy ghost so far away that evil spirits will be more than welcome to take it's place.

The only reason I come here to debate is not because I care what you Atheist think or have any desire at all to start topics insulting and Atheism.I come here because I see Atheist starting insulting Christianity and telling lies about it.I could start a new topic everyday insulting and telling lies about Atheist if I wanted to but I never do and never will.


Nobody including the Baptist are preventing you from gambling.You can gamble anywhere you want anytime you want.You are also not going to tell me that every single person preventing a casino is a Christian because we both know that Atheist vote on these issues all the time.I also don't see what difference it would make if a bunch of Atheist voted no on this casino.


Homosexuality is a abomination to God and it is strictly forbidden.There is no where in the bible that says it is allowed.Is this a problem with the Catholic religion or is it a problem with unrepentant homosexuals in the church not doing what God is telling the to do?It is not a problem with the Catholic religion it is a problem with Homosexual men who should have been kicked out of the church until the repented.I do not feel the least bit sorry for the Catholic church.If they allowed homosexual men in the church then they should pay the full price for their actions.

You should also understand that those homosexual priest cases were going back 40 plus years and they totaled about 1,200 cases.This would represent less than one half of one percent of all the Catholic priest in the church.


Christianity is not a controlled religion.Matter of fact it is the least controlled of them all.You can join when you want and leave when you want at any time with no punishment from the church at all.There is no requirements of how many times to pray like Islam.

i respect ya. while you are right in the fact nobody is stopping me from gambling, they are stopping my convenience of it here in Texas.
not a big deal, i would like to see it here, i can always go to Louisiana to gamble.
One child molesting priest is to many.
I will disagree with you on the control. of course you can come and go as you please, as all religions. they can't stop you from that.
The control I'm referring to is the scare tactics they use to do what they want. do as god wishes or go to hell. and of course they know what god wants, and they will be happy to tell you. thats the control I'm referring to.