Topic: Innanna and the "sacrificial gods"
Abracadabra's photo
Mon 06/21/10 06:55 PM
I've been studying the Descent of Innanna into the Underworld. Of course there are many different versions of this myth. I actually enjoy a version that Penczak give in his book on Living Witchcraft. However, I have read other versions and I just tonight read yet another version at the following website:

http://www.halexandria.org/dward385.htm

This particular version is a bit gruesome in the way it is told and doesn't spend nearly enough time on the attributes of humanity as they are being disrobed. However this web page gives some interesting commentary after the story. I personally feel that this story is actually meant to be a bit more abstract than it is often given credit for. In other words, I see it as more of a personal archetype that may indeed play out quite differently for different individual depending upon their life's experiences and journey.

At the end they give some rather powerful words of wisdom that the whole world needs to wake up to:

"Religion is an improper response to the Divine, an attempt to pin down what is eternally in flux, forever moving, and shifting shape. Religion is reductive, while the Divine is expansive. Religion is thus blasphemy."

"Economic depression and 'insufficient funds' are illusions. There is plenty of everything for everyone. There is only lousy distribution."

"Everybody has got to figure it out for themselves. No one can do it for you, think for you, or hang on your cross. The priest, rabbi, shaman, guru, can, at best, direct you through a busy intersection, but they won’t follow you home and park your car"

Ruth34611's photo
Tue 06/22/10 06:56 AM



At the end they give some rather powerful words of wisdom that the whole world needs to wake up to:

"Religion is an improper response to the Divine, an attempt to pin down what is eternally in flux, forever moving, and shifting shape. Religion is reductive, while the Divine is expansive. Religion is thus blasphemy."

"Economic depression and 'insufficient funds' are illusions. There is plenty of everything for everyone. There is only lousy distribution."

"Everybody has got to figure it out for themselves. No one can do it for you, think for you, or hang on your cross. The priest, rabbi, shaman, guru, can, at best, direct you through a busy intersection, but they won’t follow you home and park your car"



Wow, these are great statements. I'm going to check out your link this afternoon because I'd like to see the site these came from.

The last statement is particularly true. But, I have found that while many people say they want to find what I have found, they are not willing to do the work to get there. And, I've only put in about half the effort you have, James. It takes effort and commitment to find the truth.

EquusDancer's photo
Wed 06/23/10 07:46 AM
I totally agree with the last statement. Nothing anyone teaches you will mean anything unless you truly absorb it and make it yours rather then following it by rote. That "Ah-Hah!" moment is a wonderful thing on so many levels with so many things.

Abracadabra's photo
Wed 06/23/10 02:12 PM
Edited by Abracadabra on Wed 06/23/10 02:12 PM
Warning: Long Personal Ramble Ahead

I need to share the following and my cat doesn’t understand so I thought I’d post my thoughts here.

I had a super Ah-hah! moment last night! Actually I’ve been having a flood of Ah-hah moments lately. A lot of things are coming together for me at this time with regard to my understandings of magick, and in particular with my understandings of the qabalah and the genuine psychic power of thought-forms.

In a very real sense I finally found what I’ve been searching for. I wannabe a magi.

This is what I truly desire, and have always desired but just didn’t know it. Ruth introduced me to the art of witchcraft though her suggestion of various books in a way that really brought it down-to-earth for me. I was familiar with the idea of ‘witchcraft’ previously, but in all honesty, I had viewed it as nothing more than superstitious fairytales. No doubt because this is how it had always been presented to me in the past. I even met people who claimed to be into ‘witchcraft’ but were truly quite flaky. In fact, from what I have learned about witchcraft since, I would point out that what they are calling ‘witchcraft’ is quite different from how I view it today. But I guess everything has their own view of things.

I bought several books on witchcraft, the foundations of which were a series of “Temple of Witchcraft” books by Christopher Penczak. I don’t necessarily agree with all of Penczak’s ideas, in fact, I often do things quite differently from the way he does them. Still, I really appreciate the organizational layout of his 6-book series of Witchcraft lessons. Each book is laid out as a “year-and-a-day” study course. I did not study them as such. Instead I just read them and chose various exercises that attracted me. I read all 6 of them within 2 years. This is not at all the same as having made the “year-and-a-day” dedicated study program that he had intended. However, at that time, to study them as such would have truly been “dogma”. Since I did not understand the big picture I would have had to just follow his lead almost rote. Without even truly understanding what I was actually doing.

In fact, it wasn’t until I actually got into studying the qabalah in his 4th book “The Temple of High Witchcraft” when things really started to begin to fall into place. By that time I was also reading books about the qabalah written by other authors, as well as doing web searches for information too. I even got side-tracked into Faery Teachings. That in itself was a rather interesting experience. I often found myself arguing with my logical mind. My logical mind would object, “Why are you buying books about fairies? Have you gone completely crazy? You’re a scientist for God’s sake! You don’t believe in fairies!”

But my intuitive side had been awakened and simply responded, “Oh shut up. I’m intuitively draw to this so I want to see what it’s about” So I bought the faery books and started reading them, “My logical mind mumbling obscenities in the background all the while”. But in the end, even my logical mind came around to realizing the significance of this. The faery teachings are actually very closely related to the teachings of the qabalah. They just present these psychic concepts from a different vantage point. In this sense, the faeries are real. They are manifestations of the cosmic consciousnesses described by the qabalah. They are hermetic thought-forms that are bought into manifestation though the power of psychic energy.

My logical mind has already begun to grasp the scientific value of the reality of psychic energy. Even many modern biologists hold that our very concsioucsness is nothing more than an ‘emergent property’ of form. And that begs the chicken and egg question of which came first, the thought, or the form? And who’s doing the cosmic thinking? These are quite profound questions that even the logos element of my form must recognize.

All of this has led me to inquire more deeply into the concept of thought-forms and that is the science and art of hermetics, the very foundation of magick. This is also the foundation of psychological archetypes which has been surfacing over and over again all throughout these studies. A lot of people don’t care for this seemingly technical term because it reeks of the secular science of psychology. Even atheists acknowledge this concept. For them it simply means “delusion”, “make-believe”, or just pure “imagination”. And of course they dismiss imagination as not being real. laugh

I get a genuine belly roll out of the thought that imagination is not real. If you stop and think about it even for the briefest moment you will quickly realize that reality is nothing more than that which we perceive and we most certain do perceive our imagination. Therefore to say that it’s not real is to deny that it can be perceived. All great works come into being from first being born in the imagination. This is the consciousness of Yesod, in qabalahlistic terms. The qabalah is nothing more than a roadmap of the cosmic consciousness. All of this insight and study as brought me to a higher level of understanding of consciousness. A level that cannot even be seen from the secular scientific view of modern psychology.

To make a long post even longer, this brings me to my current course of study. I have just recently been intuitively guided (or inspired) to re-read the first lessons in all of Penczak’s Temple books. The insightful epiphany came from the realization that I have indeed come a long way in the past few years and I might therefore gain a far deeper insight into those earlier lessons. Well, this paid off with a Big Bang. Yes, I am gaining a far deeper understanding of the primal concepts now. Especially in terms of thought-forms, deities, and archetypes. In fact, when I re-read the first lesson in the Outer Temple book I see that Penczak himself is confessing to having precisely the same difficulties with these concepts. He was also struggling with them when he wrote the book, and he explains his struggle. He prefers to use the term “Archetypal Being”, because he too, sees these thought-form as taking on a ‘life of their own’. He explains this in terms of animism, or pantheism, in the sense that spirit permeates everything and thought-forms are no exception to this. Modern secular biologists really need to ponder this concept more deeply if they are going to suggest that we are nothing more than an ‘emergent property’ of form. Emergent from what? What give rise to the form in the first place? This is the very essence of animism and pantheism.

Ok, that ended up being a bit of a ramble, those were my thoughts at the end, not Penczak’s. But I feel certain that this is basically what he is saying as well. Now getting back to my super Ah-hah! moment that I eluded to at the beginning of this post,…

As I re-read the first lessons in each of the 6 Temple books, I recognized that they all begin with an ‘Intention Ritual’. In each book the student is to ceremonially write down their study intention. This is done at the altar with candles of the gods and goddesses blazing and incense filling the air to cleanse the sacred area of unwanted thought-forms, spirits, and vibrations as well as to aromatically stimulate the psyche of the mind. It’s a Holy Ceremony meant to display to the Gods and Goddesses the earnestness and sincerity of the students desire and intent.

I had difficulties with these “Intention Rituals” the first time through these books. My difficulty stemmed from the fact that I was paying too much attention to what Penczak was suggesting a person might put into this intention document. He was suggesting that the student should dedicate themselves to studying the lessons in the ‘year-and-a-day’ course and be open to diligently trying all of the exercises with a sincere effort. Well, to be quite frank about it, that was not my intention at the time. So it would have been a false ceremony to perform such an intention ritual. In fact, I did not perform them for this very reason. My intention was to simply read though the entire series of books and thus gain an overview of what this witchcraft stuff is all about? I did do precisely this. Although, in hindsight I realize now that I should have simply just stated that in my “Intention Ritual”. Just say what you truly want to do. Period.

Now, after having re-read all of these first lessons, I feel drawn to actually taking them all over again. But now I have gained much wisdom into the freedom of being a solitary witch. It is my freedom to write whatever true intentions I have into my “Intention Ritual”. And I’ve also realize that I can cover all six of these lesson books simultaneously, jumping back and forth between them as my intuition directs me. After all, in a very real sense they are almost fractals of each other. The Inner Temple speaks to the topic of the inner consciousness and psychic powers. The Outer Temple speaks to the very same issues as they have to do with interacting with deities, elemental spirits, thought-forms, and other humans. The Shamanic Temple, speaks to the journey into the underworld much like Innanna’s journey. The High Temple speaks to the Qabalah, it’s just the same issues in more detail. The Living Temple Vol. 1 speaks to the issues of the yin, feminine, or Goddess nature as well as to the issues of charkas. The Living Temple Vol 2. speaks to the issues of yang, male, or God nature and to the Zodiac.

My genuine “Intention Ritual” now is to learn the secrets of the magi. So now I know what to write down and how to proceed. This may seem trivial for some, but for me it’s a super Ah-hah!


Ruth34611's photo
Thu 06/24/10 05:51 AM
No, not trivial at all. I can relate to those moments when you just KNOW where to go next on your path. I have had a few of those and they make you feel like you won the lottery. bigsmile

Thank you for sharing your journey with us. flowerforyou

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 06/24/10 10:55 AM
Well, this is far more profound than I had original thought. I sat down last night to write out my new intention script and suddenly realized that it's difficult to put into words precisely what it is that I am attempting to achieve.

This is good, because it's forcing me to actually evaluate what's truly important to my goals, and more importantly, to evaluate precisely what those goals actually are.

This revelation actually led to an experience of automatic writing. I was trying to logically figure out what to write. Different thoughts came to me and I would start to write them out and then realize that they are getting too analytical and involved. (my natural inclination to be scientific about things I guess) So I would scratch them out and start over thinking of more simplistic ways of stating what I truly desire.

However, while I was "thinking" my hand was trying to write something down. At first I was actually fighting it. After all, I hadn't decided what I wanted to write yet! But then I let go and just let my hand write out what it wanted to write. Then I read what it wrote and said, "WOW! That's GREAT! I'll just go with that!"

What was written on the paper is something I would have never thought of using my purely analytical approach. I think my higher self, or the divine consciouness is fed up with my analytical approach to everything and just wants me to get on with it without getting bogged down in the details.

Without a doubt I have always lived in the land of Hod. I must be the King of Gorias by now. It's time to visit Yesod and Netzach and spend some serious time in the great cities of Finias and Murias.

Ruth34611's photo
Thu 06/24/10 06:18 PM

I think my higher self, or the divine consciouness is fed up with my analytical approach to everything and just wants me to get on with it without getting bogged down in the details.


laugh flowerforyou



Abracadabra's photo
Fri 06/25/10 12:46 PM
Edited by Abracadabra on Fri 06/25/10 12:48 PM
SUPER WARNING! The following is a very lengthy Post on the difference between mythology and philosophy

I actually posted this as a response to a concern on the religious forums. But since it's related to Witchcraft, Shamanism, and Eastern Mystic views, I thought I'd also post it here. For anyone who might find it interesting.



freeonthree wrote:

I going on the hunch that he (God) simply doesn't exsist, rather than see him as some sick, twisted creep. Just work better for me smokin


Abra replied to Freeonthree:

I can certainly feel empathy for your view. I feel much the same way. If I had to choose between the biblical fables of God and atheism, then atheism is by far the more attractive choice.

Fortunately, for me, I've found a really beautiful philosophy that gives me choices beyond those two.


Arcamedees commented on Abra's thoughts.

And believing in those is different how? Besides, in your opinion, that your mythical beliefs are good while theirs is evil?
Both are unsubstantiated, unprovable, goofy nonsense.

To be honest, I think "theirs" is evil while yours, if I have discerned it correctly, is more benign.


Oh my dear Arcamedees, you are jumping to conclusions here based on assumptions and misconceptions that aren’t even close to reflecting the reality of the situation.

You write: “in your opinion, that your mythical beliefs are good while theirs is evil?”

I have no “mythical beliefs”. This is the error you are making. Although I confess that it may often appear that I do because sometimes I refer to things like a “Moon Goddess”, but I’m not viewing this as a mythology. I fully recognize that it’s a psychic archetype. I’m totally aware of this. Moreover, were have I ever claimed that it’s important for anyone else to use this particular psychic archetype. I’m sure that I never have suggested any such thing because that would be contrary to my understandings and beliefs.

So, I have no ‘mythical beliefs”. That’s just a misconception on your part because you don’t fully understand my spiritual philosophy. And I certainly don’t blame you for that, I’ve never written any books on the topic, nor have I even truly tried to explain it to anyone in any great depth. But fasten your seat belt because I’m about to make an attempt just for you.

This is going to be a short ‘thesis’ of sorts so grab a cup of tea (or whatever drink you prefer) and settle in for a cerebral journey. I’ll break this up with bold headings to make it easier to digest.

The Secular Scientific View

This view stems mostly from the biologists’ and geneticists’ communities. The idea seems rather simple and straight-forward (although I assure you that this is a falsehood already), and the idea is as follows: Human consciousness and awareness (our ability to perceive and experience) is nothing more than an emergent property that arises from the physical complexity of our physical brains, body and nervous system. This is there current stance and “Theory of Mind”, if you will. (not to be confused with the psychologist’s “Theory of Mind” which is a totally different concept altogether.

In other words, they are suggesting (almost demanding) that from a scientific point of view our conscious awareness is nothing more than an emergent property of the complex physical patterns and activities of our physical brains.

That sounds real good on the surface. Almost to the point where it seem foolish to reject it. But that’s hardly the case. An ‘emergent property’ itself is nothing more than a human abstract concept. So is that the explanation of the true nature of our conscious awareness? That it’s merely an abstract concept? That’s a bit circular is it not?

In other words, what is it that is actually doing the perceiving and experiencing? The emergent property itself? That’s a pretty abstract almost “mythical” philosophy right there. And if its not the emergent property itself that is doing the actual perceiving and experiencing then what is the fundamental entity that is having the actual experience of perception? The physical brain itself? What sense does that make? How can a physical brain actually experience anything if all it amounts to is a mass of atoms. Are the atoms themselves experiencing this form?

In other words, this explanation is not rock solid by any stretch of the imagination. It leaves many questions unanswered. Plus it ultimately relies upon a Classical or Newtonian picture of physical reality which has indeed been shown to be false. (more about that below, in the section entitled “My Scientific Spiritual View”)

But first let’s visit the Easter Mystics again

The Fundamental Philosophy of Eastern Mysticism

Please notice that this is not a mythology. This is a philosophical view. Yes, it is also a spiritual view of life, but that just happens to be where this philosophy leads.

Rather than speaking in terms of “pantheism” which is taken to assume a concept of “spirit” prior to the philosophy, let’s think in terms of “animism” where an underlying animating force is simply observed to be apparent in everything.

Let’s go back now and consider the Biologist’s view that consciousness (which the Eastern Mystics see as ‘spirit’) is nothing more than an emergent property of form.

Well, the Eastern Mystics say, “Sure, you can view it that way”, however, they also point out that if this is true of human brains then it’s also true of all forms. Every form in the physical world has some essence of an ‘emergent property’ associated with it. In this sense “consciousness” or “spirit” is present in everything.

No you may argue the semantics of using the term “consciousness” here. But in this context that’s a trivial argument. The bottom line is that consciousness is an emergent property of form, then all forms have some emergent properties and therefore some essence of “consciousness”. It is important to at least consider this on an abstract level especially considering where I’ll be taking this in the next and final section of this thesis.

The Eastern Mystics (philosophers) then conclude that “all is consciousness, and you are it”. Tat t’vam asi.

Please keep in mind that this is not a ‘mythology’ at all. It’s a very well-thought-out philosophical approach to answering the riddle of life. It makes sense. And it certainly makes every bit as much sense as the Biologist’s secular notion that human consciousness is just an emergent property of the brain. Once that’s been recognized then the Eastern Mystic view that all forms must have emergent properties to at least some degree must necessarily follow.

So in a sense the Eastern Mystics have taken what modern Biologists have observed and have simply applied this observation to the entire universe and everything in it.

My Scientific Spiritual View

At first glance the title of this section may appear as an oxymoron to what science is supposed to be. But in truth, it really is a scientific explanation of spirit. At least it’s every bit as valid and competitive with the Biologists observations that consciousness is an ‘emergent property’ of form.

And here’s the scientific explanation:

The Biologists claim that consciousness is an ‘emergent property’ of physical form. So the next obvious question is quite straight-forward. What is physical form? Well that’s the study of physics right? So we turn to physics.

What does physics have to say about physical form? Well, in Classical or Newtonian physics, form was believed to be the result of configurations of little tiny hard balls. Balls that basically behave like billiard balls. That’s the foundation of physical form.

Well, that was the picture back in Classical physics. However, in modern physics which includes the observations of the quantum world and Quantum Theory, physicists have lost their balls. We have no observed that at a fundamental level there is no such thing as physical form. All that appears to exist is some sort of truly weird “quantum soup” or “quantum foam” that itself does not even obey the laws of ‘physics’.

Sure, we’ve created a model of potentiality and probability that appears to assign some statistical mathematical descriptions as long we don’t focus in on any single event, but only on large numbers of events. But still, the bottom line is that physical form is not at all what we had first thought. It’s not merely a configuration of hard balls. Instead it’s a very dynamic well of infinite possibility emerging from a soup of apparent chaos.

So what do we have now? Now we have precisely the opposite of what the Biologists see. We have form as an emergent property of something far deeper and mysterious. Mysterious? What’s that? Well, that’s Mysticism! Mysticism is simply a belief and observation that the world is truly a mystery beyond our ability to comprehend.

This is what the Eastern Mystics have concluded. The world is an emergent property of the divine mystery and you are that. Tat t’vam asi.

No mythology required.

And the Eastern mystics take this all one step further. Like the Biologists the Eastern Mystics recognize that consciousness is one of the many things that emerge from this infinite sea of potentiality. Therefore consciousness must be innate to the cosmic sea. And we are but a wave on the ocean of cosmic consciousness.

Summary and Conclusion

The Eastern Mystical view of life is every bit as grounded in philosophical thinking and scientific knowledge and observation as the Biological Secular view is. No need for mythology here. It’s just as well-grounded as secularism.

I have personally taken the Eastern View and recognized that this same view is consistent with various practices and traditions of witchcraft and shamanism. I’ll be the FIRST to grant that this won’t apply to all practices and schools of thought associated with witchcraft and shamanism. I personally have to roll my eyes when I see what some people have turned those ideologies into. And I will grant you that many of them have indeed turned them into hardcore beliefs in particular mythologies. They have lost sight of the value of psychic archetypes and have indeed become idol worshipers, of the mythological legends instead.

I probably should never even mention witchcraft and shamanism or concepts like the Mood Goddess on these boards because I’m certain that no one can possibly have the psychic archetypical understanding of them that I do (save for a few very special Witches).

This is why it’s far better for me to speak in terms of Eastern Mysticism. That’s really the bottom line anyway. That’s where the ideas of witchcraft and shamanism actually came from original anyway. Witchcraft and shamanism is really nothing more than Eastern Mysticism romanticized. And it’s the romantic aspect that attracts me. bigsmile

I hope the effort I put into this post was worth it and you now have at least some understanding why it is that I don’t believe in, or rely upon any mythical beliefs. I do however use them as tools for the manifestation of psychic archetypal thought-forms. And I find that to be quite valuable and constructive. It has practical value for me that I cannot deny.