I believe in karma too, which relates almost entirely to life as we live it and possibly, if one believes in an afterlife, karmic effects on a subsequent life. I don't believe in the heaven I learned in Sunday school, which is absolutely a simplistic fairy tale. I do believe that the you and me, that we are, will not dissipate into non-existence with our deaths. I believe the value of our lives follows us into the next phase, whether as a flicker of light or other life form. If we were good, we are better prepared for the next life, if you can call it that, than if we were selfish or hated or hurt others. I believe the ultimate result of existence and repeated existence, not necessarily in three-dimensional space, is distillation of all negativity until we arrive at pure LOVE.

Please be aware that this is my opinion only, based on my observation of a rainstorm in the mountains. Have you ever listened to lots of people talk about reincarnation, and then 12 of the women will say that they were Cleopatra in a past life. Well, if I'm correct, all 12 are. In fact, every human being on the planet is Cleopatra, not just those 12; as those born after 1945 are also Hitler and those born after 1963 are JFK. Have you tuned out yet?

If we are reincarnated (and there are 6 billion of us at the moment) where did those extra souls come from, assuming we started out with just Adam and Eve or just a plain old Australopithecus like Lucy and her husband? Whether myth or archeology, the point is made. Assume that humanity started with a very small population--has every other one of those 6 billion souls just been waiting in the wings of the earthly stage for their first appearance. This appears to be a strong argument against simple human reincarnation but supports the view of plant and animal reincarnation through progressive stages: from plants and animals (your pets included) through human beings and on through the next possible phase of a superior creature, whether that is the dolphin or maybe the butterfly. Let us not be so arrogant or chauvinistic as to believe we are the highest form of creation on this planet. Of course, this assumes that all souls are earth-bound and originated on earth, which itself is questionable.

Back to Cleopatra. Universal consciousness, or God, is the amalgamation of all creation, of every thought and deed. Every time a tree feels the urge to bend to the light; every time a dog pees on a fire hydrant; every time you answer my messages on your keyboard--these are now part of universal consciousness, and God evolves. Each of us is a tiny part of God, a raindrop if you will from the ocean of all-souls.

Every time a creature dies, its soul is returned to the ocean of all-souls, and its full complement of experience is blended into the essence of an evolving God. When a new soul is born, it evaporates from this ocean and comes back like another raindrop on the mountaintop. It is no longer the same individual from a previous life but is now three days in the life of Cleopatra, two hours in the life of Hitler, four minutes in the life of JFK, twelve seconds in the life of that bean-plant that used to grow in the planter outside your window. In other words, the baby in its crib is a brand new creation, totally unique from anything that has ever been; and that is the reason why Adam and Eve, just two souls to begin with, are now six billion.

This is what people fear, though, losing their individuality. In reality, we are all just here harvesting experiences so that God can evolve. As you can see, there are many if's and but's with this idea of the afterlife, but it is what I believe.

This is true, but the individual remains as a pocket of experience which is shared readily with any other individual who requests it.

In reality we are one soul, but we are divided into many parts, each part can become a conscious, sentient, individual and it can join with its higher self and become one with that, which can join with its higher self and become one with that and so on...

But the individual pockets remain individual and they make up the whole.

Yes, we are here to harvest experiences and help expand the universe of the one.

If you look at all the aspects of religious aspects from the halls of Fredja, to Egyptian beliefs in several gods, to Celtic Druidism, The American Indian beliefs in the great spirit, to Buddhism, to christianity they all have the animism in common. The animisms presence in each individual returns to a whole, all present in one another. You see in this in the Father, the son, and the holy ghost several parts of one. The creation of an energy parts assembling together as a whole part.

I have no debate against your views here myself, actually. The positivism and negativism aspects or wishes placed forth from an individual sent upon the winds creates a reactive energy. Which is why they say you reap what you sow.

Exactly. And if Mysticism is true, then there's no reason to limit life or reincarnation to just planet Earth. We could be reincarnated anywhere with in the visible universe, or even to places in the universe that are not even comprehensible to us.

We could also be reincarnated into differnet dimensions of time. There is nothing about reincarnation that demands that anything be linear. The "real universe of existence" can truly be infinite in both space, and time. If that's true, then to restrain the concept to just life on Earth, and to sequential time, would truly be meaningless.

Also to restrain life to only human-like beings would also be quite short-sighted.

If reincarnation is true, then the possiblities are genuinely infinite.



That, my friend, is so absolutely true! The Sunday School picture of a single eternal heaven with a single ruling dictator God whom all must serve his will, is not only simplistic, but it would also be an extremely BORING FATE! Such an idea would truly be a HELL.


If the thing that makes heaven and God so WONDERFUL is the idea that "With God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE", then any concept of heaven would need to take that into consideration, and thus a truly wonderful heaven would become one where people can constantly become incarnated in new and interesting lives. Remaining STAGNANT in a dicatorship serving the will of a single creator would be totally uninteresting and boring.

So the mystical views of reincarnation are truly the only real "Heaven" that mankind has come up with yet. The ancient Hebrews had an extremely limited and uninteresting imagination when they designed God. This is why their religious mythology cannot possibly be true. The God they have created is simply to ignorant and uncreative to be "THE CREATOR".

As you clearly exhibit by your post, even mortal men can dream up better scenarios than the Hebrews came up with. Therefore, their picture of God cannot be true. It's simply too mundane and limited.

OK, I didn't succeed with this, because your responses are really tepid. Come on. I'm saying that you've got Hitler as part of your spiritual makeup. You've got to take exception with that. Why is everybody agreeing?

This is some ***** ****! Somebody, smack it down. Damn, Abra, you for one should have recognized the frayed edges on this canvass and begun to unravel it. Same with you April. And, Mr. Bean, I've seen you operate before. What's going on?

Don't be nice. Like Miss Texas said, don't go after the messenger but feel free to rip through the message. I've said something here that I believe has never been said before. Somebody's got to disagree. Zeig Heil! ya'all.

It's mss bean, and we are just being nice because you are new here. LOL

I will disagree with the idea that a lot of people reincarnated from Adam and Eve or Cleopatra, but I do have another explainable for that syndrome of thinking or remembering those lives.

It is the group consciousness or cellular mind/memory that is accessing the subconscious that brings forth these kinds of memories. It is sort of like information that is in "public domain."

It has become part of the collective subconscious. We are all connected to that and we can all access these memories, even feel that they are our own memories.

The mind is very strange that if it is exposed to experiences, even things like movies or dreams or stories, it can adopt those experiences as its own experiences. It is as if it HAS indeed experienced those things. You can even create karma or work off Karma this way, with dreams and movie experiences etc.

That is because we have our own minds but at the same time we are connected to the collective universal mind.

Why? Hitler was about hate, fear, control and power..we all have those qualities, some more than others. Some of us are aware and strive to disolve those parts of us away and come to that place of love. It isn't done over night and in some cases takes many lives.

So to deny we have good and bad, light and dark in us would be silly.
I'll add, I use those terms lightly as I don't look at things as "good" and "bad"... they are subjective.

I would think the only rebuttal you would get would come from one who is not open minded... perhaps the bible thumper's and their narrow thinking. Not from those who have posted to this point.

I realize that Hitler has a bad reputation, but to some people in Austria and Germany he was a hero. War is always hell. Eisenhower was responsible for the deaths of many Germans in a camp here and nobody talks about that.

Actually, it makes sense to me that the negative energy of a Hitler would in a sense balance out the positive energy of a Mother Theresa, as a Stalin to Ghandi, make a balance to an energy, creating a ying and yang energy force blended in eternal harmony amongst one another.....just as the Earth balances itself and a sure as the.human body responds to stimulations through homeostasis. Therefore, there may very well be the neagtivity of both Stahlin and Hitler, as well as the goodness and wiseness Mother Theresaand Ghandi.

I believe it is who I am that defines me......I chose to fall prey to negative energies or the positive energies. Be disappointed as you wish....it all signifies the possibilties of turning either way and rejoing into a homeostasis unitary force.

For the love of everything living...please do not turn this into a poem...

Why don't you write one for us Fear..... :~)

The New Matrix

Addicted to our paradigms
We worship gods and nursery rhymes
And wander in the dark of night
Thinking we are right.

As these realities are sold
We will watch new dreams unfold
having lived with the false facade
That we knew something of God.

Although, if you do not believe in the Sunday School version of God, how can you believe Adam and Eve to be the first two of humanity set here before us to procreate? In essence, they did not exist in your mind, and cannot become six billion souls. We know Hitler, Moussolini, and Stahlin existed, as well as Ghengis Kahn.....we also know that, Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Ceasar, and Cleopatra existed, as well.....me believing in the energy of the mind, body and soul, the homosapiens having both tendencies towards negativism and postivism.....then we would all possess characteristics of one another.

This, then, would come down to nurture vs. nature......and the over all energy of the source we are born with.....if born with more positive energy than negative we would lean towards positivism, but if the influences around thee positive energy remain negative then, it could pull the negativity to the forefront based on the individual surroundings. The nature of the energy could stay positive under negative pressure dependent upon the will of the individual to off set negativity and visa versa.

The Adamic race was seeded (and guided)by an advanced alien culture. Adam and Eve represents the first of that race. Since earth was an experimental planet, open to others, there were several other seedings around the globe and that would include the Native Americans, and others. If you read the Urantia Book you will get one point of view with a lot of interesting information which still leads to the mythical story of Jesus, but I judge that book as alien propaganda although it has a huge amount of very interesting information that the Bible does not have. It has a huge following. It could be entirely fiction but I think there is some truth there with fiction built around it. It is possible that the Urantia book was authored by an alien on a mission to create a new religion for the new world, one that sort of updates the Bible.

If none of that is true, I would have to say that someone spent an enormous amount of time and creativity to write the Urantia book and not take any credit for it.

Okay, I am not so niave that, I do not believe there is no possiblity of what we term alien or other life form on other planets. Nor do I , believe whatever our history god, energy forces or Amebas.....that God could not have created other life forms elsewhere or parallel universes in conjuction with what we know as being. Anyone may ponder any theory without factual data as a back up basis, and why not? From every aspects of religion, science, energy, and alien life form all remain theories. Unless you were actually there when the first human appeared be it Adam as in the bible, cells from a meteor hitting the earth, evolutions including crawling from the sea. Evolution remains taught in schools, hitting a religious aspects, or aliens as gods the experimented and come back to probe and learn about there little doggie society........all of these are theories.

Death and the after life.......theories......tell you what my eyes tell me........they are here then no longer.....tell you what my soul tells me........my inner being is older than time......I was born old, my family states it and I know it inside of myself....I have always been here and will always be....the beauty inside myself shall not be squandered upon what other term fact or fiction or to what society dictates I should be.......I shall go against society should I feel it necessary to do so.....I shall go along with society should I decide to do so....but do not believe society should dictate what I should or should not be or do in my lifetime.

I sort of believe that human life evolved on this planet naturally to a point and then an advanced alien race entered the scene when it was time and they brought their culture and science and gene splicing scientists and helped to speed up the evolution of the people on this planet to a great degree. I think of it as them tending the garden earth like we plant seeds and tend our garden. We don't just plant the seeds and hope for the best.

I think this process happens over and over and has been happening for a very very long time in the expansion of the universe.

Are they Gods? Well not any more than we are, because we, and our future generations will probably be doing the same thing in some distant future.

P.S. The Garden of Eden is the entire earth. I think the Adamic race started in the Middle east and that the location of the temple mount was the hub of that development.

The Hopi Indians of America talk of their ancestors who came up from a city underground where they had been cared for by "the ant people." A large underground city has been discovered in the grand canyon but that place is off limits to the public and protected by the American Historical Society.

Hmm

And that's all that karma is.

A magnificent saga of passion, heroism, and survival, Piers Anthony's Isle of Woman is a tale like no other ever written. It is nothing less than the story of humanity itself, from its savage origins to its troubled future, told through the lives of one family reborn throughout history.

At once grand in scope and intimate in human detail, Isle of Woman tells the story of a man and a woman born at the dawn of human history, separated by fate, yet united by an unquenchable passion that even time could not conquer: Blaze, the fireworker who raised his kind out of savagery, and Ember, the beautiful green-eyed woman who forever haunted his dreams.

Isle of Woman is a powerful and prophetic masterwork from one of the bestselling storytellers of our time.

Isle of Woman
(The first book in the Geodyssy series)
(1993)
A novel by
Piers Anthony

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/piers-anthony/isle-of-woman.htm