Awright guys, it's obvious that unless the male of the species evolves considerably, internet dating is not going to survive. Face it, the reason that SO MANY women make it a point to list "No liars. No cheaters." in their profiles is because so many guys live like there's no tomorrow and treat the women in their lives as totally and completely disposable.

Tiger Woods and Jessie whats-his-name. Loser. But honestly, Sandra, when you go for the bad-boy thing, what do you expect. Still... 'Will wonders never cease.' Jessie. Dude. You gotta be kiddin' me! Seriously.

Who hasn't learned that anonymity lets us think we can get away with being more awful to each other? Enter the internet and online dating. Really, I'd be the last the preach and it's not really a moral question...

Guys, you're screwing this us for everybody. If you're married and unhappy - then take the hit and get a divorce, THEN you can troll for perfectly nice women to use and abuse on Mingle2. As a divorced man, at least you'll be giving them a chance and possibly won't be messing up any more lives than absolutely necessary.

Better yet, get help.

Would it be an total waste to try and relate the Chivalric Ideal? I suppose so, but I'll give it a shot anyway... Men and women are not the same - you may have noticed. We guys are big and strong and - in theory at least - protector types. Respect that. It puts you in a very important place in the workings of the world. Our accomplishments as Humans are many and varied; as men go out into the world to create, so they must sometimes leave behind the ones they love. Women are the vessels of great things – bearers of our future and keepers of the past. As men we would do well to be mindful of the rearward path and not blacken our hearts by wasting ourselves on vindictive or thoughtless pursuits.

Am I getting thru to anyone out there? Besides you girls, I mean? Keeping in mind that 'You reap what you sow' this kinda puts it on you, too, don't it? Nothing's easy.

Bridgewater, you had me until para 5. I'd much rather a man see my strength and respect me for it, then spend his time showing me his.

One of the many topics that needs to be mentioned: the advantage of a strong partner. I could write a book on that topic alone...

Thanks for the note, Crissy. I'm flattered that you read it all.

And you can't control it, you can just as well post endless rants about how men should respect women more or women should respect men more...but ultimately you are not changing anything, it will continue, and there is more than likely nothing you can do about it.

But that is okay, because that is the beauty of diversity...of course, maybe it isn't the beauty of it, but it is none-the-less diversity, and you simply cannot control it.

Why can't a nice guy get a date around here?

Yeah, I'm getting sick of this too.

Internet dating is not the problem.

PEOPLE (not just men) lied and cheated before the internet. The internet simply makes it easier.

Common sense is what it takes - and not being gullible – to have a good experience meeting people on-line.

Don't see a lot of common sense around anymore.

Dear fearandloathing - Control is not the issue nor the intent. We all have to (and will) make individual choices, that's actually essential. But as for there not being anything I can do about it, I disagree. just getting the thought out there, getting it heard... 'Right' people always respond to the right things. And change is inevitable, so what we need to do is change the general perception and with that, attitudes.

Call me a dreamer, but it can happen. Some of us hope for an improvement in the human condition instead of the current downward sprial. As for me, I'll voice optmism and hope - and keep doing it.

Thanks to both you and motowndowntown, your interest was really more than I'd hoped for already. Thanks for looking in.

Melodygirl - You're also making my point. It's too easy online to BS - thus we need to be more conscientious in the decisions we make. As for common sense, that's needed too. But I'm talking about Trust. Wouldn't you like to be able to simply trust someone you don't really know? Currently, we do feel foolish to find we've misplaced that trust, again. Picture a world where you can expect differently. Again, the dreamer in me says, "Just picture it and it will be the truth." Acknowledging that this is all wrong is just the first step.

Thanks for giving all this a read - and thanks for the note.

Hummm honestly Respect is what so many have seemed to have forgotten both men/women are at fault.

I will have to admit I have recently met someone and to be honest have been floored the way he is. He does the opening door thing will not let me pay when we go out to eat not even the tip. When we are at the store getting a drink he will ask me sure you don't want something else? He has not went straight to the sexual talk ect. And has not pressured the issue as far as sex.

To be honest it really has blown my mind to some point for we talk every day since due to his job he is on the road everyday. But......it has been a very pleasant surprise to met someone that is old school in thinking and how he treats others.

He is not just that way with me but have notice he is with everyone he meets and talks too.

Honestly I feel that manners are just not what they use to be and respect has been lost to a degree....... too many are out for themselves and don't care who they run over in the long run......

The downward spiral has been constant, matter of fact it has been the only constant in humanity. We can plant hundreds of trees, dig hundreds of rivers, build hundreds of mountains...and in the end we will simply destroy it.

There is no stopping a force that is this strong and has going as long and hard as it has been going...but keep up your optimism, just like pessimism, the world needs it every once in awhile.

Ahh, new to the site and first post so I'll jump in here

Really very simple solution

"Be the change you want to see in the world." "Mahatma Gandhi

not only Congrats to you on finding someone,but finding someone of Quality......Class.....
its a shame we say this in terms of old-school thinking- isnt it...

great post

Okay ... some valid points here. Agreed that, in an ideal world, the chivalric ideal would be applied in daily living. Problem is, we're not in that particular world. Does that mean we shouldn't try to apply that ideal anyway? No. All it probably means is that there are so many people who aren't even familiar with the concept that they wouldn't recognize the behavior when they saw it or when it was extended to them. I hope I'm wrong about that, but real life sends pretty strong signals.

As to the issue of trust, I make it a point to trust someone UNTIL they show me that my trust has been misplaced. Funny thing - trust is the sort of thing that has to be earned ONCE BROKEN, but prior to that, it's extended unilaterally without question. If it weren't that way, tho', there'd be no way to ever trust anyone at any time, so ...

I've got the same 'dreamer' in me you speak of ... I'm just more cautious about letting it roam around at will. I'd really like to see the things you speak of practiced by more people, but the world seems hell-bent on a devolutionary path that's gonna get in the way of letting the 'better angels of our nature' take flight.

You've raised some good and interesting points here ... nice post.

Thank you, at this point not sure if it will be anymore then a great friendship. If in all that is what it is then so be it but........what awesome traits to find in others and very refreshing if I must say so myself.

Hummm as far as old-school thinking yes it is I have tried to put these quality's within the up bringing of my own kids. Just hopefully they will see that is the way to be with others....Just seems those ways are fading way to fast from society.....

Society is like a pendalum it swings both ways over the course of time....one side being 'old-fashioned values' and the other side being 'amsterdam' so to speak. It swings from one side back to the other....some of the things I've noticed recently is seems that we are swinging back towards 'old-fashioned' values...or at least I hope we are.

The missing item...INTEGRITY

Why does it have to be an old-school way of thinking, of acting, of being! There is a pendulum at work in regards to public opinion. When enough of us admit that we're disgusted with ourselves... And here I take full responsibility for past instances where I have found myself being less than gracious. We can all be better; I suppose that this is my public announcement that I intend to do just that.

To KingsKnight. You'll hopefully see that this was not just an impulse. I've had these thoughts for years that it finally came into focus. It's actually not something I'd ever been tempted to parade around in public before. You make many good points in your post, I found your comments - and assumptions about the outlook they must respresent - encouraging. More people should trust like you do. What I hear more is that folks just can't manage to extend such trust anymore. Keep that. You are wise enough to do it. But you make a good point that many aren't. Yes, the Chivaric Ideal would not be recognizable in a den of thieves - such men would only be devoured. But the pendulum swings, brother. As long as "right" is not totally extinct, there is always hope for a comeback. You and those who see as you do prevent the instinction of our real Humanity. You are a Guardian. Thanks for the post and for what I took as encouragement.

TxsGal, I'm tempted to tell you to be more optimistic, but you also seem to quite capable and a pure heart. Thanks for your comments, Rather than advice, I send wishes for nothing but the best.

"Be the change you want to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi

WhyZeeGuy - A warm welcome. Nothing says it like Gandhi. I have never heard this quote and suddenly feel the need for a tatoo - Forehead? In big letters? Bright red? Maybe not, but somewhere as a permanent record. Its that good. Thanks for your addition to this.

Thanks again to everyone. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts.

And I thoguht I'd get nothing but slammed.

Faith. Trust. Honor.

It's all ****in ********

that's why I down a 5th before every date!

Or before signing on to a dating site!!

" ... To KingsKnight. You'll hopefully see that this was not just an impulse. I've had these thoughts for years that it finally came into focus. It's actually not something I'd ever been tempted to parade around in public before. You make many good points in your post, I found your comments - and assumptions about the outlook they must respresent - encouraging. More people should trust like you do. What I hear more is that folks just can't manage to extend such trust anymore. Keep that. You are wise enough to do it. But you make a good point that many aren't. Yes, the Chivaric Ideal would not be recognizable in a den of thieves - such men would only be devoured. But the pendulum swings, brother. As long as "right" is not totally extinct, there is always hope for a comeback. You and those who see as you do prevent the instinction of our real Humanity. You are a Guardian. Thanks for the post and for what I took as encouragement. ... "

Thanks ... I know it wasn't just an impulse. There's too much there that would never show up in just an impulse rant.

I understand the 'why' about people not trusting anymore ... hell, for my operative philosophy when dealing with political types, it's always 'Trust. No. One.' ... but that's reserved for specific individuals in a specific context 'cuz I kNOW they can't be trusted. I will not live my entire life with that mindset, and, in any relationship, that outlook would doom it before it got started. Who wants to live their entire life looking over their shoulder to see who's watching their every move? Better to trust ... yeah, that might be a cause for regret later on, but we aren't given to know the future beforehand ...

The 'pendulum' does swing ... my concern centers around the fact that, with each swing, the pendulum's arc gets smaller and smaller until, finally, it stops. This, I believe, explains why we see the 'swings' from 'archaic' to 'modern' values oscillate from one to the other with increasingly less time between swings ... and what do we do when it stops?

Thanks again for the post. It brings up things that we as a society should think about more than we do - but don't. The mechanics of 'keepin' on keepin' on' tend to suppress the nobler instincts on a day-to-day basis ... but it don't mean we can't try as individuals to keep the faith ... somebody else out there might see the torch in the darkness if we keep it burnin' long enough ...