You consistently demonstrate this ambiguous, ambivalent and completely contradictory 'two-sided' personality throughout your posts.

You come across as a reasonable and intelligent person, whom happens to be christian, on the one hand, and yet, you will senselessly defend the most unreasonable and stupid acts from fundamentalist militant christians?!?!?! ... loosing all the 'good faith' credit gained.

Which is it 'msharmony'??? Can't be 'having your cake and it eat too' !!!

Not at all defending stupid acts just defending the americans rights to commit them,,if they arent criminal. For instance, it would be STUPID for an adult to go to a public park wearing a confederate flag t shirt during an naacp event,, BUT I would defend that they had the right to do it and would consider police resources wasted on arresting them to be a waste of time.

I agree with Ms Harmony.I think this story is a prime example of our Government starting to decide who is special,who should be allowed to protest,where they can protest,and what they can say.There is no where in the Constitution where it says you have a right not to be offended.

I think the key point to consider in this debate is that this was a public festival in a public park permit or not.The general public has every right to say what they want in this park.Everybody owns it and everybody should be able to use it as they see fit(legally speaking of course).I know these people were annoying the gay crowd by praying in front of the stage.I think if so many people were offended and this was upsetting so many people the crowd could have asked them to leave or picked them up and sat them down somewhere else and prevented them from entering the front of the stage area again.If these protesters pushed,shoved,yelled,or was generally creating a hostile situation then I think it would be a good idea for the police to remove them.I do not think the police should be playing big brother and assume that just because they are praying all Hell is going to break loose.


What is next?Should the police remove cheerleaders in parades because their shorts are too short and offending mothers?If Christians were standing on the corners on gay pride parades should they be arrested and thrown in jail because there is a possibility they could cause a disruption?

I think the point of this post is to prove that if you hold parades and events that are controversial such as Gay events or Religious events in public places you are going to have to deal with the general public and what they have to say about it like it or not.If you want the public and protesting out of the picture you should hold these events in private buildings.

Much like Julian Raven, the 'christian fundamentalist predicator' sought to 'test' and 'provoke', and then pull the old 'victimization' act FOR THE GLORY OF 'HIS GOD'!!!
... 'thomas3474', with this thread, is digging up a 3 year old piece of news, to raise some controversy (stir-up and provoke some tihs), while pulling the same '... PLAY THE POOR LITTLE VICTIMIZED AND PERSECUTED CHRISTIAN ACT...' as Raven!?!?!?

If you intentionally set your own house on fire, don't come to us crying that you're a 'VICTIM OF ARSON'!!!

In the typical style of 'chrstian fundamentalists',
... whom almost appear to have this 'apologetic quota', addicted as they are to stir-up 'fires' only to claim persecution and 'victimization', as in the first days of christianity, 2000 years ago,
... this OP sets the stage-up in a most opportunistic and misleading manner, by carefully selecting a single and grossly biased information source: World Nut Daily (http://www.wnd.com/), a renowned 'opinion 'maker' and spin-meister' catering to the religious far right.

Much like our pyromaniac-victim describing a 'fake' arsonist, when asked by good Samaritans trying to sort out the facts of the crime, this OP chooses to post only a self-serving part of the event.

For good balance, here is a link...

http://jthughes.blogspot.com/2008/03/prince-of-peace-followers-guilty-of.html

... giving a much richer perspective (from different sources including WND), where in the end, Julian Raven, a 'christian fundamentalist' preacher, clearly comes across as having sought to test and provoke in the typical "... Our only reward is being right in a wrong world...", christian fundamentalist fanatical style!!!

It is high time that we start recognizing 'christian fundamentalists' for the persistent tihs-disturbing, provoking and intransigent (no possible debate or compromise) fanatics they are.

How one can tell the handfull of 'fanatical/fundamentalist tihs-disturbing christian' from the very vast majority of true christians???
Pay attention to this singular obsessive and compulsive drive to provoke and test the limits of 'Separation of Church and State', in their mission to IMPOSE 'THEIR CHURCH' OVER THE '... WE THE PEOPLE...' STATE.

Respectfully, I just dont see that silent "ANYTHING' (praying, meditating, reading)is provocation, unlike setting a house on fire.

Seperation of church and state is valuable to prevent any ONE religion from being imposed upon the masses, however , I dont believe it applies to public parks and I dont think it was ever intended to IMPEDE individual's right to believe and pray,, or not.

Id think standing outside an abortion right yelling at the clients would be both stupid and inconsiderate and even intended to provoke,,,BUT unless such activity is obstructing someones rights it is protected under that valuable constitution under free speech. As someone else posted, none of us have a constitutional right to not be offended by what someone else says(or doesnt say). We have to uphold those rights for everyone, not just those who do and say what we want them to. I am opposed to abortion protesters with vulgar signs who stand outside of clinics, but I aknowledge that (so long as they are on public property and not private) it is their right, and if it is their right to publically display such offending and even provocative material,,it is certainly their right to stop and pray in any public area they wish.

This is just silly!!!

You disregard all facts, but keep insisting that YOUR version of reality is the right and only one!!! That starts sounding like the 'fundamentalist' speech:
'... don't bother me with your human facts, my direct line with my personal 'god' is all I need!!!...'.

Julian Raven is a 'militant christian fundamentalist preacher'. He goes into a park after convincing 6 other 'monkeys' to join him, in spite of warnings from police, whom know him well for his confrontational preaching approach.

Now 'msharmony', read ALL the information at the link I provided earlier, and see for yourself.

We are not talking about an innocent silent prayer here. The man, Julian Raven, is a known agitator whom happens to have a 'fundamentalist christian' agenda. Law and order officers are paid to manage 'agitators', whether they are 'christians' or 'Moonies'!!!

You are correct in that I do not have all the details. If there are other specifics about the arrest which warranted it, I can concede that but my concern is in giving people in authority to dictate that any behavior,, from silent prayer, to verbal insult is disruptive enough to warrant arrest,,,opening that door just MIGHT give people the idea that they should dictate what people talk about in public as well,,,,

but i will read the other details and get back to it,,

Overpowering law enforcing!?!?!? How can that be deducted from this case???

We're dealing with the complete opposite here. Officers, knowing Raven's 'testing' reputation, showed formidable discernment.

Julian Raven is anything but a victim here. HE IS THE ONE DICTATING, OVERPOWERING AND 'TESTING' the authorities, not the other way around.

The authorities, in spite of the man reputation did not suggest he couldn't go into the park, or TAKE PART at the event. But knowing his confrontational style of 'preaching', which had lead to incidents in the past, they warned that he was not to confront the participants.

Raven proceeded to enter the park with his 'followers' in single file, and authorities did nothing.

It is only later on, when leader Raven and his minions made their way to center stage that the officers starting paying attention, and eventually decided to call the agitator's bluff.

Here is an eye witness account from an article of the Star Gazette, an Elmira (local) newspaper covering the scene:

'... Seven protesters wearing T-shirts that said "Liberated from Sin" tried to disrupt the celebration by blocking the stage and putting on a show of praying and scripture reading...'

A clear disregard for the reasonable warning: 'don't confront participants', and a clear disturbance of the peace: blocking access to the stage; 'MINOR DETAILS' left out by the WDN account of events.

That's when the law officers moved in, ... AS THEY SHOULD!!!