A bit of skin, no problem, alot of skin, you might have a problem. Call it conservative if you wish, but alot of men are turned on by pretty makeup, big hooters, smokin' hips, and toned legs. That's just how it is. Primal instincts, not mine, but as an observer, I know that's what alot of men like. Therefore, what are you getting dressed up for? Can you have just as much fun toning it down a little? Or are you out there just to tease the men and feed your ego? It's okay to have girls-night-out, but just be clear about what your intentions are.

are you suggesting that men don't know right from wrong and can't just walk away on their own? I hope not. If a men feels a women is playing games....then the man needs to just walk away. The man needs to take responsibility for their own actions and not blame others for their behavior.

walk away from those women. A woman shouldn't have to dress a certain way because they don't know which man can't control himself. Yes that is a better safe than sorry move for the woman, but not a rule.

I agree.

And the laughs continue. Um, yes, we know, women are human beings. We, the enlightened men, anyway, know that there's alot of game playing going on, and secretly both men and women have their own separate agendas. They aren't "products to be bought," but it certainly is a shame it turns out that way, the reality of it all. Buy you a drink? Free Dinner? Weekend in Las Vegas? All for what? So that you'll show us some attention and affection. Come on, some of us have figured out the game strategy. Look at the bigger picture.

Hmm. So, women should dress down because men can't control themselves? Is that what you're saying? If you're unclear about someone's intentions, ask them. Then respect their answer.

In your opinion, what's showing too much skin? What's a bit? What's acceptable in order for men to be able to control themselves?

I've bought people drinks and paid for dinner and haven't expected anything in return other than their company. I don't see the issue here.

so if someone offers to buy me a drink somewhere, then I'm obligated to pay up? Don't think so. But that is why I don't let people buy me drinks....or if I do, I buy the drinks the next round.

catsloveme"
you werent doing tooooo bad,until you got to the buying n selling n expecting part.
then you totally derailed...not all guys or women are like that at all.

so,all i got to say now is

"how deep is the rabbit hole,alice"

btw,just wanted to say that was real good of you (the shadow) looking out for your friend.
did she learn anything? did they?
seems like it always comes down to communicating...

Dr. Rob,

Metaphors always get me into trouble. But then again, Jesus had the same problem because He always spoke in parables. I try the best I can to communicate my opinion. It doesn't always work out for the best, but at least I've said my peace. Everyone gets in a "hole" from time to time, and we usually find a way out. The ones in the deeper holes are those who say nothing at all. Don't ever argue semantics, it will get you no where. I never said all, I said alot, many, or most, I don't have the most recent scientific polling data, forgive me.

I think he got derailed before that.. I agree with what the ladies were saying... It doesn't matter 'why' a woman may choose to dress a certain way, that is her choice and no one has a right to expect ANYTHING whether she's wearing a clear garbage bag and nothing else.. If men can't be responsible for their own primal instincts then they certainly can't be trusted running the world or anything else that if the wrong head got in the way they could screw it all up. NOW if a woman goes around grabbing a guys crotch and leading him on with by touching or telling him things, OK you have a right to think more is going to happen and she's wrong, dead wrong for doing that.. But never tell someone what they can and can't wear b/c they'd be stating 'raping them is ok'....

im not looking to argue with ya man...i just hoped you didnt think everyone was in the same boat.
which you clarified.thanks and no offense intended.

exactly..i somehow thought this was called Common sense...maybe im too old fashioned?

Taking it to extremes, aren't we? I never said that, but lets get real here, you dress a certain way, you expect a certain outcome. It might not be the outcome you expected, but maybe it was probable, and guys did hit on you. Now if you dress in a pants-suit like someone mentioned earlier, it's your lips not your hips that do the flirting. Either way, you should know what you want and what you're getting into. Never said can or can't, either, society defines those rules.

A lot was said Cats.. Anything indicating that the way a woman dresses makes her responsible for his actions is more extreme than any example I or anyone else gave.. The point is as people, thinking, supposedly intelligent people, we are each responsible for our own actions... If I want to walk around naked I have the right to do that and any male that thinks he has a right to lay a hand on me is not being responsible for his actions... Now that is against the law for anyone to walk around naked but it stresses the point of responsibility... Now if I promised a man sex, touched him inappropriately then he can think I'm after something more... Until then he shouldn't be thinking he has a right to anything! IF a woman changes her mind after leading a guy on, she is a big tease and a real azzhole but still it does not give a man the right to get something from her b/c he got a woody and it's all her fault..

Umm, no. If I dress a certain way it's because I like how that makes ME feel. I dress for myself, even with the thought of going out with someone else. Doesn't mean I want sex, though I do want to feel sexy. A short flowy dress makes me feel good, so I wear it.

I am actually speechless. IMO a hooker doesn't deserve to be raped. Do they run that risk? yes. But they don't deserve it.

as far as the OP though...the girl was in the wrong for playing stupid games (one reason why some victims won't come forward) but the guy should have said see ya. If someone says no and doesn't mean it or playing games, then they can go without and learn not to play games

In answer to your second question...a great big YES! Just because a woman gets dolled up and wears sexy perfume does NOT indicate any intent. I do it frequently myself and believe me, I never once intended for anyone to think I was selling any product of any sort!

very true Cher. Sometimes a woman has been working all week (in business clothes, uniforms or taking care of kids) and wants to get dolled up to go out. Nothing wrong with that and it doesn't mean she is looking for something

From Zen Buddhism (especially Precepts 3 and 7 as pertains to this thread):




-Kerry O.

I know I'm gonna get in trouble for this but I have a tendncy to agree with CatsLoveMe.

I am not saying it is okay under any circumstance for a man or woman to sexually assault another person. And anyone who does should be arrested and prosecuted without the victim's attire even coming up in court.

Outside of the criminal matter, however, it does matter what a woman wears. There is a law in most states that says you are guilty of a crime if you if you knowingly behave or speak in a way likely to cause a fight or brawl. In other words, if I go into a primarily black neighborhood and starting yelling racial slurs at people I am engaging in a behavior which is likely to get my *** kicked. When I do get my *** kicked by a group of blacks, should they get in trouble even though I was calling them names and provoking them? Absolutely. They have to be able to control themselves.

But I certainly put myself in a bad situation by doing that.