Topic: Our Founders were NOT Fundamentalists | |
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The US a Christian nation? Pffft...it belongs to us all, get over yourselves already. Our Founders were NOT Fundamentalists the founding fathers were mostly Panthiests ....christianity is basically Pantheism because it is about worshipping a god that is human Pantheist worship Earth and the universe not some invisible entity... why would anyone worship the Earth and the Universe unless they consider that an invisible God and/or force was controlling all that's the thing about that term "worship"...it's impossible to do without a God |
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Tue 02/23/10 07:51 PM
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The US a Christian nation? Pffft...it belongs to us all, get over yourselves already. Our Founders were NOT Fundamentalists by Harvey Wasserman "God made the idiot for practice, and then He made the school board." --Mark Twain Tomorrow's New York Times Sunday Magazine highlights yet another mob of extremists using the Texas School Board to baptize our children's textbooks. This endless, ever-angry escalating assault on our Constitution by crusading theocrats could be obliterated with the effective incantation of two names: Benjamin Franklin, and Deganawidah. But first, let's do some history: 1. Actual Founder-Presidents #2 through #6---John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and John Quincy Adams---were all freethinking Deists and Unitarians; what Christian precepts they embraced were moderate, tolerant and open-minded. 2. Actual Founder-President #1, George Washington, became an Anglican as required for original military service under the British, and occasionally quoted scripture. But he vehemently opposed any church-state union. In a 1790 letter to the Jews of Truro, he wrote: The "Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistances, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens." A 1796 treaty he signed says "the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Washington rarely went to church and by some accounts refused last religious rites. 3. Washington was also the nation's leading brewer, and since most Americans drank much beer (water could be lethal in the cities) they regularly trembled before the keg, not the altar. Like Washington, Jefferson and Madison, virtually all American farmers raised hemp and its variations. 4. Jefferson produced a personal Bible from which he edited out all reference to the "miraculous" from the life of Jesus, whom he considered both an activist and a mortal. 5. Tom Paine's COMMON SENSE sparked the Revolution with nary a mention of Jesus or Christianity. His Deist Creator established the laws of Nature, endowed humans with Free Will, then left. 6. The Constitution never mentions the words "Christian" or "Jesus" or "Christ." 7. Revolutionary America was filled with Christians whose commitment to toleration and diversity was completely adverse to the violent, racist, misogynist, anti-sex theocratic Puritans whose "City on the Hill" meant a totalitarian state. Inspirational preachers like Rhode Island's Roger Williams and religious groups like the Quakers envisioned a nation built on tolerance and love for all. 8. The US was founded less on Judeo-Christian beliefs than on the Greco-Roman love for dialog and reason. There are no contemporary portraits of any Founder wearing a crucifix or church garb. But Washington was famously painted half-naked in the buff toga of the Roman Republic, which continues to inspire much of our official architecture. 9. The great guerilla fighter (and furniture maker) Ethan Allen was an aggressive atheist; his beliefs were common among the farmers, sailors and artisans who were the backbone of Revolutionary America. 10. America's most influential statesman, thinker, writer, agitator, publisher, citizen-scientist and proud liberal libertine was---and remains---Benjamin Franklin. He was at the heart of the Declaration, Constitution and Treaty of Paris ending the Revolution. The ultimate Enlightenment icon, Franklin's Deism embraced a pragmatic love of diversity. As early America's dominant publisher he, Paine and Jefferson printed the intellectual soul of the new nation. 11. Franklin deeply admired the Ho-de-no-sau-nee (Iroquois) Confederacy of what's now upstate New York. Inspired by the legendary peacemaker Deganawidah, this democratic congress of five tribes had worked "better than the British Parliament" for more than two centuries. It gave us the model for our federal structure and the images of freedom and equality that inspired both the French and American Revolutions. It's no accident today's fundamentalist crusaders and media bloviators (Rev. Limbaugh, St. Beck) seek to purge our children's texts of all native images except as they are being forceably converted or killed. Today's fundamentalists would have DESPISED the actual Founders. Franklin's joyous, amply reciprocated love of women would evoke their limitless rage. Jefferson's paternities with his slave mistress Sally Hemings, Paine's attacks on the priesthood, Hamilton's bastardly philandering, the grassroots scorn for organized religion---all would draw howls of righteous right-wing rage. Which may be why theocratic fundamentalists are so desperate to sanitize and fictionalize what's real about our history. God forbid our children should know of American Christians who embraced the Sermon on the Mount and renounced the Book of Revelations...or natives who established democracy on American soil long before they saw the first European...or actual Founders who got drunk, high and laid on their way to writing the Constitution. Faith-based tyranny is anti-American. So are dishonest textbooks. It's time to fight them both." http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/02/13-2 You also have to keep in mind those were just the governement of the USA. You have to keep in mind, the government isn't what makes the rules for a country, cause if the governement does or says something the people don't agree with they will loose the position in government because we live in a democracy = elected leaders. If our leaders were to have said they were christians then the none christians would be less likely to vote for this president. It's called similating. If they say they are open to all religions and aren't one particular one then they appease more people with such speaking. And no the constitution does not mention anything of religion because religion and government was to be seperate. This was one of the things they broke away to make a new nation for. But still our pledge of allegance stated one nation under God. Meaning a nation that follows God. But again our government can not put practice into christianity because of keeping church and state two different things. It's the people of the nation that majority worshipped God. And in a democracy nation it's the people's choice on what kind of country we are. It all boils down to, the governement had to talk as such to keep there place with keeping church and state seperate. The pledge, as written by Bellamy (an avowed socialist), did not contain "under God". It was added in the 20th century to appease the masses. You also misunderstand that the framers of the Constitution intended a Republic, not a democracy. It's sad that the "democracy" meme has made its way into cirricula and many people's understanding. We operate as a democracy but the intention of the framers was to not allow us to become a theocracy...you know like Iran? You must misunderstand democracy. We would have no congress in a democracy. The framers of the constitution thoroughly disliked democracy, as you'll find when you read the Federalist papers. (The Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers can be found here- http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/) Tragically, in practice, the US has become a democracy (this began when Senators were elected directly, which was not intended by the framers). Not all the framers were opposed to theocracy, FYI. Washington was very religious, and his Thanksgiving prayers are legendary. Ben Franklin scolded Paine on his criticism of religion (yep, politicians were hypocrites back then, too, lol) I don't foresee theocracy coming here anytime soon. This would require a Constitutional amendment, which is damn near impossible (especially in contemporary politics). None-the-less, ever since women and blacks were allowed to vote we've been a true democracy...not sure where you divide or misuse the term but it's our system of government and except for the current just say no party (GOP) it's been working pretty well..I now again feel represented to some extent...oh, not here in my state of religious nutbags but in the WH is person I trust. So Mr. Historianaire, what do you think about a parliamentary form of government? You think the Dippic could have hung in there with that? Not a chance...he'd been toast. I think parliamentary governments suck as much as any others and that government is totally unnecessary for society to exist. That's been done before. It's called anarchy. It quickly turns into fascism, and then gruesome dictatorships emerge through bloodbaths and genocides. I wish I could tell you more about it. Unfortunately, those societies aren't around to tell their stories!!! |
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Edited by
wux
on
Tue 02/23/10 09:59 PM
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1. Actual Founder-Presidents #2 through #6---John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe and John Quincy Adams---were all freethinking Deists and Unitarians; what Christian precepts they embraced were moderate, tolerant and open-minded
Unitarians are not even Christians. They believe Christ never became god, on earth as in heaven. So a lot of the founder presidents were not even Christians. |
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The US a Christian nation? Pffft...it belongs to us all, get over yourselves already. Our Founders were NOT Fundamentalists the founding fathers were mostly Panthiests ....christianity is basically Pantheism because it is about worshipping a god that is human Pantheist worship Earth and the universe not some invisible entity... why would anyone worship the Earth and the Universe unless they consider that an invisible God and/or force was controlling all that's the thing about that term "worship"...it's impossible to do without a God Yeah well, it's all arbitrary, as in worshiping a stain on the side of a fridge....is Pantheism a christian religion and which founders worshiped dirt? Are people now claiming America as a Pantheist nation or something? |
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The US a Christian nation? Pffft...it belongs to us all, get over yourselves already. Our Founders were NOT Fundamentalists the founding fathers were mostly Panthiests ....christianity is basically Pantheism because it is about worshipping a god that is human Pantheist worship Earth and the universe not some invisible entity... why would anyone worship the Earth and the Universe unless they consider that an invisible God and/or force was controlling all that's the thing about that term "worship"...it's impossible to do without a God Yeah well, it's all arbitrary, as in worshiping a stain on the side of a fridge....is Pantheism a christian religion and which founders worshiped dirt? Are people now claiming America as a Pantheist nation or something? they came to America on a God with no name they felt the Christian God was insane since the American God didn't had-den no name they gave it the Christians God's name and did Jesus the same meow meowwwww meowwww meow meow meow meow meowwwwwwwwww meowwwwwwwww meow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0KKGdb4qUY |
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