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| Topic: The American way... | |
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The problem with college educated people is that they expect, and in some cases demand, they make X amount of money to start... No, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Also... why hire someone right out of college who learned through a text book and has almost no real world experience... when they can hire someone who might be less educated, but has the real world experience. Results matter, nothing else. Well, considering most of them put a lot of money up for the education...I would expect X amount of money to start as well. Of course your reply brings up another argument of mine, text book versus real world experience...how in the hell is anyone supposed to get real world experience if no one is going to hire them based solely off the fact that they went to college to learn it? See, it is flawed, as with most corporate systems that people seem to tie their leash too. I believe that if you go into something that you are naturally good at and enjoy you can make it work. Anyone can make anything work for them, it is just a matter of not having the ability or the time to get into what someone truly loves to do. |
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The problem with college educated people is that they expect, and in some cases demand, they make X amount of money to start... No, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Also... why hire someone right out of college who learned through a text book and has almost no real world experience... when they can hire someone who might be less educated, but has the real world experience. Results matter, nothing else. Well, considering most of them put a lot of money up for the education...I would expect X amount of money to start as well. Of course your reply brings up another argument of mine, text book versus real world experience...how in the hell is anyone supposed to get real world experience if no one is going to hire them based solely off the fact that they went to college to learn it? See, it is flawed, as with most corporate systems that people seem to tie their leash too. I believe that if you go into something that you are naturally good at and enjoy you can make it work. Anyone can make anything work for them, it is just a matter of not having the ability or the time to get into what someone truly loves to do. Exactly. I get that a lot, either I'm over qualified cause of my education, or I'm under-qualified, because I spent most of my time in school. You can't get hired cause you don't have the experience, but you can't get the experience cause you don't have a job. It's stupid. |
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"Well, considering most of them put a lot of money up for the education...I would expect X amount of money to start as well. Of course your reply brings up another argument of mine, text book versus real world experience...how in the hell is anyone supposed to get real world experience if no one is going to hire them based solely off the fact that they went to college to learn it? See, it is flawed, as with most corporate systems that people seem to tie their leash too."
That is the problem, you EXPECT to be paid this. Be thankfull you even got a job interview because there are more people lined up at the door who would work for less than what you expect to be paid. Take the cut in the wallet at first, and get the experience. I started at the bottom in my father's business cleaning up our shop. I moved up to a helper on a drill rig. Now I'm in charge of our concrete lab, and am a full time driller because I did what I had to do. I started at the bottom, and i'm working my way up. That is how it is done. You can't expect to start at the top, it just doesn't happen. |
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BTW, "over-qualified" is usually a nice term to say they won't pay the wage you wan't to start out at.
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I would comment on the fact that it was your father that gave you a chance to "start out at the bottom," not a random stranger, and explain that not everyone's father owns their own business, but I won't. I'd also comment on the fact that I don't think I'm over qualified for anything; that is the term potential employers use to label me as an unfit candidate for a company I never particularly wanted to work for, but was willing to, simply because I need to work and earn money and pay bills, but I won't.
I won't point out any of those things, because I've noticed that people only see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear, until it applies to them. I have a Master's degree and I used to work for Walmart. I was telling someone how much I hated working for them because of how they treat their employees and she told me I had no business working for them anyway, no way would she ever work for them, she had a Bachelor's degree in communication, that kind of work was beneath her. Her mother is an attorney and she works as her secretary, so she doesn't have to work for Walmart. But hey, it's very easy to say what you wouldn't do until you have to do it. Good luck with this thread, Fear, I'm off it, I used to have these kind of debates with GM workers in Michigan- until they got fired or laid off and then they understood what everyone else was saying.... |
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I won't point out any of those things, because I've noticed that people only see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear, until it applies to them. So true. 
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A certificate of education is a job stamp. That is all. Its not a ticket to good times. You will start at the bottom period. That sheet of paper says you have brains for the field. THAT is all! If you do not have working experience in the job,sorry!
I did have an Electronics Engineering degree. And, honestly, I am glad I started at the bottom. I learned more about the business than anything in school. Needless to say, I am no longer in that field. But, I will say this. If you want something... WORK for it! I have a part time business, and you flap paper in my face, and, cant back it up with experience. I am not going to pay! |
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I've honestly come to the conclusion that if, given the chance, I could go back into selling what I did sale which was illegal, I would jump at the chance...because at least then I would be making money, a lot of money, and I would not be spiraling downward with my happiness. That is the American way, isn't it? Happiness, money, security?
I can see your point of view. The money the system is making off drug dealers here is quite amazing. Every morning I turn on the radio I can hear how much the county is just raking in. Our police force has new cars; more officers and the court is making a bundle. I keep on wondering between the county, town and state troupers if they aren't going to have to put up traffic signals just for them. Like a bunch of bees buzzing around. That doesn't even count for the unmarked cars. The police around here seem happy, wear nice uniforms and they seem secure with all the backup they have. 
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"Riots. All you need is a rock and a friend." The good days, the 90's. When people were visibly angry, and that anger turned into action, and that action was heeded and changes were made. Long gone, now they are called terrorists and held in maximum security penitentiaries, now they are martyr's and collateral damage. Long lost are the days of "Freedom of Speech", this prison state is influencing other countries, now so-called "freedom fighters" are being thrown in prison for treason. A sad state of affairs it has become. People are actually leaving the country and going elsewhere due to the state of affairs right now. |
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All education isnt the same, but a degree does show a certain dependability and focus that are important for any employee to have. It shows an ability to learn concepts needed for the job as well. I think it is interesting that education is being 'poopooed' in this thread, I am guessing these folks havent looked or had to look for a job in a while. DEGREES will usually guarantee more of a starting pay because of the Investment of money and effort the person has already put into that field by way of studies, it is much more likely they will STICK with the job if they made that type of investment in learning the field, as opposed to someone who happens to have done it before but may at some point decide they want to do something else.
I think education is equally as important as experience, and a history of either should mean a higher pay, but I guess that is where the whole argument of 'being hired upon merits' comes in. Each employer decides what constitutes MERIT for their employee,,bottom line. |
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Apparently is far more depressing than it is engrossing, I know people that have college degrees in different areas of education that are currently unemployed. Personally, I'm stuck in the middle of nothing and selling Slurpee's my entire life when I have experience in sales and know an awful lot about computers. Yet here I am, unemployed and applying for jobs that want nothing to do with me...why? Probably because of my credit, apparently sticking out two years at a dead-end job is not dedication enough if these silly, stupid numbers are too low. I've honestly come to the conclusion that if, given the chance, I could go back into selling what I did sale which was illegal, I would jump at the chance...because at least then I would be making money, a lot of money, and I would not be spiraling downward with my happiness. That is the American way, isn't it? Happiness, money, security? I'm constantly reminded of the exact reason I absolutely despise this country and all that it stands for, money, happiness, and security. All of these things, meshed into one big ball of clay and slammed into a wall, what did you get? Even if I persay went to college, what is waiting for me after? The same thing that befalls other college graduates? Well, hell, I'm unemployed right now without having to put forth a damn bit of drudgery. I have to say, the illegal way of life, it is becoming more tempting everyday I wake up. Happiness, money, and security all rolled up into one sufficent ball that is easy and I don't have to slam it against a wall to see what I get when it "splats!". This is the American way, poverty, loneliness, insecurity. This is the creation of which the greed, lust, and envy has created for us. From years past to years in the future, this simple little fact, it will not change. You possibly will be more adept to conforming and moving with it, but it will not change. All of this makes me think back to when everyone wanted to migrate from their homeland to the United States, had they seen the future of this country, would they have made the same decision? Moving from poverty into an unknown poverty is a hell of life, don't you think? ---Please don't move this into politics, it is more of a rant than anything and I'd rather not get into some meager meaningless argument with someone over my views and opinions...I get that enough in the politics forum. uhm... I don't know you - but I do know that companies credit score perspective employee's in higher paying jobs because it indicates certain character traits. Commenting on what was posted -- the fact that you state that you blame others for your problems, you would have no issues breaking the law and selling illegal "things"... seems they are correct in their assumption that poor credit scores show certain character traits... *sigh* why is personal responsibility lost on so many? $.02 
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I've honestly come to the conclusion that if, given the chance, I could go back into selling what I did sale which was illegal, I would jump at the chance...because at least then I would be making money, a lot of money, and I would not be spiraling downward with my happiness. That is the American way, isn't it? Happiness, money, security? I can see your point of view. The money the system is making off drug dealers here is quite amazing. Every morning I turn on the radio I can hear how much the county is just raking in. Our police force has new cars; more officers and the court is making a bundle. I keep on wondering between the county, town and state troupers if they aren't going to have to put up traffic signals just for them. Like a bunch of bees buzzing around. That doesn't even count for the unmarked cars. The police around here seem happy, wear nice uniforms and they seem secure with all the backup they have.
As a former police officer, I can say from experience, that the enforcement of marijuana laws are a huge waste of time and taxpayer dollars and I can't wait for it to be legalized. |
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uhm... I don't know you - but I do know that companies credit score perspective employee's in higher paying jobs because it indicates certain character traits. Commenting on what was posted -- the fact that you state that you blame others for your problems, you would have no issues breaking the law and selling illegal "things"... seems they are correct in their assumption that poor credit scores show certain character traits... *sigh* why is personal responsibility lost on so many? $.02
Didn't blame anyone for my problems, I'm blaming them for not being able to look past an irresponsible decision that was made when I was much younger than I am now. Of course the credit issues are indeed my fault, but that was years ago and I've since shredded the cards but refuse to pay back $600 on a credit card that I only spent $200 on and only had a $500 limit...that is just ridiculous. I would have no issues breaking the silly, stupid laws that were only formed because of issues of racial tension a really long time ago. That and I absolutely have no respect for law enforcement, no offense, but as far as I can see they cause more problems then they alleviate. Grand assumption on someone you don't even know based off a post you obviously didn't read correctly, this doesn't just go for me, for the most part it isn't even personal. I can find a job, and go too school, and probably find a better job. However, there are millions of college students just graduating that are finding nothing but pretty much what I'm going to end up doing so therefore there is no real influence to even bother paying some odd hundred grand to attend college classes only to get a job that I could of well had without the bother of college. Of course, just off your post, you haven't gone through anything remotely close to this...which means you really are just blindly posting about an issue you have absolutely no clue as to what it is actually like going through it. So when you lose your job because the economy is tanked, I'll be sure not to bother giving a damn. |
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Edited by
Atlantis75
on
Sun 01/17/10 11:05 AM
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uhm... I don't know you - but I do know that companies credit score perspective employee's in higher paying jobs because it indicates certain character traits. Commenting on what was posted -- the fact that you state that you blame others for your problems, you would have no issues breaking the law and selling illegal "things"... seems they are correct in their assumption that poor credit scores show certain character traits... *sigh* why is personal responsibility lost on so many? $.02
Didn't blame anyone for my problems, I'm blaming them for not being able to look past an irresponsible decision that was made when I was much younger than I am now. Of course the credit issues are indeed my fault, but that was years ago and I've since shredded the cards but refuse to pay back $600 on a credit card that I only spent $200 on and only had a $500 limit...that is just ridiculous. I would have no issues breaking the silly, stupid laws that were only formed because of issues of racial tension a really long time ago. That and I absolutely have no respect for law enforcement, no offense, but as far as I can see they cause more problems then they alleviate. Grand assumption on someone you don't even know based off a post you obviously didn't read correctly, this doesn't just go for me, for the most part it isn't even personal. I can find a job, and go too school, and probably find a better job. However, there are millions of college students just graduating that are finding nothing but pretty much what I'm going to end up doing so therefore there is no real influence to even bother paying some odd hundred grand to attend college classes only to get a job that I could of well had without the bother of college. Of course, just off your post, you haven't gone through anything remotely close to this...which means you really are just blindly posting about an issue you have absolutely no clue as to what it is actually like going through it. So when you lose your job because the economy is tanked, I'll be sure not to bother giving a damn. watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDqboEt1tx0 Unfortunately the US media sunk so low, that I have to rely on a foreign operated and owned media channel to get unbiased view and get reports that doesn't make it to the US media whatsoever, by either a black out or simply not giving a damn. feel free to browse the channel and get news that you haven't heard of: http://www.youtube.com/user/russiatoday?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/15/UDqboEt1tx0 |
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The problem with college educated people is that they expect, and in some cases demand, they make X amount of money to start... No, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Also... why hire someone right out of college who learned through a text book and has almost no real world experience... when they can hire someone who might be less educated, but has the real world experience. Results matter, nothing else. If you're able to start at whatever salary they offer you and live off of that, then great. If the employer is able to pay you very little and get what they want from you, it may not matter if you have a degree or not. However, I see no problem with saying what salary you're willing to start with. |
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The problem with college educated people is that they expect, and in some cases demand, they make X amount of money to start... No, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Also... why hire someone right out of college who learned through a text book and has almost no real world experience... when they can hire someone who might be less educated, but has the real world experience. Results matter, nothing else. If you're able to start at whatever salary they offer you and live off of that, then great. If the employer is able to pay you very little and get what they want from you, it may not matter if you have a degree or not. However, I see no problem with saying what salary you're willing to start with. Exactly. The employee has every right to ask for whatever salary they want and the employer has every right to accept or deny that. Why get mad at either party? |
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The problem with college educated people is that they expect, and in some cases demand, they make X amount of money to start... No, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Also... why hire someone right out of college who learned through a text book and has almost no real world experience... when they can hire someone who might be less educated, but has the real world experience. Results matter, nothing else. If you're able to start at whatever salary they offer you and live off of that, then great. If the employer is able to pay you very little and get what they want from you, it may not matter if you have a degree or not. However, I see no problem with saying what salary you're willing to start with. Exactly. The employee has every right to ask for whatever salary they want and the employer has every right to accept or deny that. Why get mad at either party? Plus, if you don't ask for a certain salary, you'll never know if what you want can be met or not. You may not get it and may have to settle for something lower, if the employer won't agree, but you won't even have a chance of getting what you really want if you don't ask for it. If someone wants to rely on experience alone without a degree, that's fine. But, there's no reason to get mad at those who do have degrees and are expecting more from their employers. |
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watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDqboEt1tx0 Unfortunately the US media sunk so low, that I have to rely on a foreign operated and owned media channel to get unbiased view and get reports that doesn't make it to the US media whatsoever, by either a black out or simply not giving a damn. feel free to browse the channel and get news that you haven't heard of: http://www.youtube.com/user/russiatoday?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/15/UDqboEt1tx0 Thanks for the links, I independently looked into it based off several college sites and job listings. I don't watch the news in the states aside from needing a giggle once in awhile, a lot of very important things are not reported in the news. I also keep up with the debt this country has here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/ It hasn't gone down since it was started, it just goes up slower. |
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Just make a boat and push it towards Cuba.
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Just make a boat and push it towards Cuba. Nothing productive to add to the conversation, don't add anything. |
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