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Topic: Emotional Autopilot...?
no photo
Mon 12/21/09 10:13 AM
Is emotion necessary for intelligence to be present?

no, given that you can make a robot and provide it with analaysis of infinite situations and a tactical response, it can function with deductive and inductive reasoning. thus it would be intelligent.

Javajunky1980's photo
Mon 12/21/09 03:02 PM

Is emotion necessary for intelligence to be present?

no, given that you can make a robot and provide it with analaysis of infinite situations and a tactical response, it can function with deductive and inductive reasoning. thus it would be intelligent.


Thank you, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. There are robots which have the capacity to learn but their learning eventually hits a plateu, because although they are designed to learn the world around them they can only learn according to the stimulus provided. Although they can be inteligent if the stimulus is already understood then there is no further drive to learn unless that drive is programmed by the one who controls the "intelect" of said robot.

And no problem Jane, you are very welcome!

Javajunky1980's photo
Mon 12/21/09 03:03 PM


Ok, here's my thought: We are all inherently emotional beings, subsequently all developmental advances have to some degree accounted for this fact (however we quantify it). That being said is it safe then to suggest that all intellectual facets or learned thought, reason, etc is ultimately built upon the foundation of our emotional nature? If so how then do we regulate the stability of such intelligence on the fickle nature of human emotions?


NO.
and No.


LOL... winking

Javajunky1980's photo
Mon 12/21/09 08:56 PM

Emotions generally drives all human behavior. As intellectual creatures we are able to overcome our emotions and act against them if we choose to do so.

But, why would we want to get rid of all human emotion? Just to avoid the negative emotions? Emotions are behind the most beautiful accomplishments of the human race. Art, music and even science. They were all begun due to emotions. You can't have the good without the bad. It would throw everything out of balance. Better to learn how to overcome negative emotions than to get rid of them.


Well, not get rid of, just consider what the human condition would be like in the absence of emotion. I agree, emotions are the contrast to the black and white of pure logic, they give meaning and gravity to our experiences, perceptions, and dreams (and/or goals). drinker

Javajunky1980's photo
Mon 12/21/09 09:19 PM

it's kinda difficult to discuss them impact of emotion on our psyche and how the human intellect is controlled and influenced by emotion while ignoring the couple of hundred years of study and research into that very subject

there are hundreds of scholarly works written on various aspects of emotion and the origin of and the effect on decision making

I referred to three here already but was ignored. if we choose to ignore the work already done and still want to try to discuss it then it really just turns into stoner talk and not a discussion of facts or reality


Quiteman, I didn't mean to ignore your recommendations. I did look at them and they are indeed enlightening. There is still more to read, as I merely looked through the abridged versions (thank you wikipedia). However, you are correct, this isn't inherently a discussion of facts as I am speculating on the condition of the human intelligence without the presence of emotion.
I will refer back to one of your suggested reads from Freud regarding the ego, super ego and id. In this example we would be removing the Super Ego and id, leaving only the ego (very roughly speaking) to calculate and interpret the world. The ego being the aspect to balance the self interested id and overly moral super ego. The question then becomes is the ego ultimately doing anything at all if it no longer needs to balance the other two aspects of the mind? Would(could) the ego maintain its own "level-headedness" or would(could) it create conflict in an attempt to reassert the necessary balance?

no photo
Tue 12/22/09 04:23 PM
Although, through experimentations, it might be possible creating a stndadized set of stimulations -- to provoke a certain response -- most of people tend to react differently to various stimili...
Thus, an "Emotional Gun" would not be practical!

Javajunky1980's photo
Wed 12/23/09 06:12 AM

Although, through experimentations, it might be possible creating a stndadized set of stimulations -- to provoke a certain response -- most of people tend to react differently to various stimili...
Thus, an "Emotional Gun" would not be practical!


lol.. Very true!

no photo
Mon 01/04/10 01:46 AM
Experincing the GOODness is impossible without awareness of the BADness!

Redykeulous's photo
Mon 01/04/10 08:23 PM
Ok... Understanding how emotions fit and what would happen in the absence of emotion aren't really the same thing... We agree that we are emotional beings and that there are several layers to our mental hierarchy that incorporate emotion into them but what would that hierarchy look like with out emotion at all present? Try to visualize and think outside the conventional understanding of emotion's place in our lives (if it is even possible) to imagine an emotionless you or me or everyone. How would we act, what would drive us (if anything)?

One thing that I am learning is that emotion has an even larger hand in our day-to-day goings on than just what we feel. If that's true then perhaps removing that component would have an even greater affect on us...
I'm looking for speculation, what would a day in your life be like if there were no emotional influences what-so-ever?


Our senses are pretty much hardwired to interact with centers of the brain that deal with emotion. For example, a particular scent or odor can create a sense of well-being, contentment or evoke a strong fear response. Certain music can lull us to sleep, while other music can stir anger and resentment.

It seems that we are hard-wired to emotional areas of the brain because survival instinct requires a deep, nearly instantaneous, connection to our emotions to elicit a survival response.

Similarly, we cruise through the day on auto-pilot allowing heuristics (a kind of cognitive short-cut) to make our decisions for us. Oddly enough, by using heuristics we are allowed to by-pass emotional thought processes, and instead we rely on previous experience from which past emotional responses are unconsciously inserted into a formula making us behave as we do.

Either way, emotion played a role in our decisions and affected our actions. So the question is: would it be possible to replace our current use of ‘emotionally based’ heuristics with ‘logically based’ responses?

I think a great deal of what we have learned, that is – how we have learned, to respond may be overridden and in some cases reversed from the emotional to the logical. However, we have to remember that all humans have some level of functional emotions, but not all humans have the knowledge, skills, and characteristics required to function in a constantly aware and thoughtful state.

In Star Trek, the Vulcan’s (remember Mr. Spock) supposedly bred out emotions, but when faced with situations in which a human made a decision based on emotion, the Vulcans became confused, because the action was not logical. When we think logically we often leave behind compassion and empathy – to do so on a regular basis would eventually lead to actions that are harmful to others.

I think we need to reason within a state of emotion, I think we need to include emotion in our heuristic processes, and I think both are necessary functions to sociability and ultimately to our survival. But we can, in some cases surpass our training and become more aware of our presence in the now and consider our interaction with it from a state of logic.


no photo
Mon 01/04/10 08:43 PM
Redykeulous:
When we think logically we often leave behind compassion and empathy – to do so on a regular basis would eventually lead to actions that are harmful to others.

Not if "Harming others" would be postulated as "MOST ILLOGICAL"!!!

creativesoul's photo
Mon 01/04/10 08:49 PM
One can act in ways that lead to harming others no matter if the thoughts are logically or emotionally guided.

flowerforyou

no photo
Mon 01/04/10 09:59 PM
Without the Intention of causing harm to others, logical or emotional thoughts are harmless!!!

flowerforyou

Redykeulous's photo
Tue 01/05/10 04:14 PM

Without the Intention of causing harm to others, logical or emotional thoughts are harmless!!!

flowerforyou



People often make the mistake of thinking that good intensions only yield good outcomes. This is an old philosophical debate and I would say the outcome of that debate is that intension does not always direct the good or bad outcome of actions.

Creative is right, of course, and nowhere can we get a better understanding of his reply than through the philosophical mind challenges offered by Isaac Asimov as he imagines a world in which Robots think and act according to a strong moral and ethical and logical Robotic Law.

The laws Asimov attempted to lay down from which Robots would make “logical” decisions included fail-safe instructions and his tests, his stories, became quite a lengthy philosophical endeavor. If we could be trained to by-pass our emotional connections then we might need to concentrate on learning the proper way to evaluated situations throughout our life by utilizing the final Robotic Laws.

no photo
Tue 01/05/10 05:37 PM
if we choose to ignore the work already done and still want to try to discuss it then it really just turns into stoner talk and not a discussion of facts or reality


Yeah! Hey, why don't you speak out against ill-informed and half-baked 'stoner talk' more often? These threads are littered with such.

Call me a 'hard science' elitist, but I'm not convinced that most of the last couple hundred years of this research has that much value. This is just my opinion, but too much of the older work was speculative and strongly influenced by personal philosophies.

It seems to me that as we progress, psychology becomes more deeply rooted in 'hard science' fields like neurology...I look forward to what the future holds.

no photo
Tue 01/05/10 09:56 PM
Edited by JaneStar1 on Tue 01/05/10 10:14 PM

1. Redykeulous:
QUOTE:
When we think logically we often leave behind compassion and empathy – to do so on a regular basis would eventually lead to actions that are harmful to others.

JaneStar: Not if "Harming others" would be postulated as "MOST ILLOGICAL"!!!

2.CreativeSoul:
One can act in ways that lead to harming others no matter if the thoughts are logically or emotionally guided.
flowerforyou
(i.e. Hypothetically, the action's outcome is unpredictable <-[JaneStar])


3.JaneStar:

Without the Intention of causing harm to others, logical or emotional thoughts are harmless!!!
flowerforyou


Redy:
People often make the mistake of thinking that good intensions only yield good outcomes. This is an old philosophical debate and I would say the outcome of that debate is that intension does not always direct the good or bad outcome of actions.

Creative is right, of course...

I deliberately numbered the statements of the dialogue -- to make it easy for your indicating What particular statement your referring to by saying "Creative is right, of course..."

*** I mentioned NOTHING about GOOD intentions -- some of which may, at times, cause the oposite outcome -- I was talking only about logical or emotional thoughts!
(((Nevertheless, nothing Good can be expected from Bad intentions!!!)))

* So, would you, please, clarify What are you referring to when saying "Creative is right, of course"? ? ?

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