I dont know if they knew they were breaking the law. In honesty, I did not realize trespassing included walking up to someones door either. I have done so when my car broke down to ask to use a phone, and in many other circumstances in residential areas when I needed some assistance or with neighbors. I dont know how else to make contact with someone in those situations without knocking on their door. I think many are probably unaware this would constitute trespassing.

As far as schools, I am opposed to restricting chldren from recognizing their beliefs at school. I dont think a muslim child should be able to impose upon my child their beliefs(unless they are friends who CHOOSE to share it) but I dont think it right to restrict that muslim child from observing his belief with other muslim children at the school. To make religion an OPTIONAL part of school is not something I believe should be restricted. It is only MANDATES that should be restricted,, in my opinion.

Where I live there is a nice big sign that says: No Soliticing...a person who needs to use my phone is not soliticing anything.

Wow, you skate around a subject...as I said NO organized usage of classtime should be for ANY religion..I think you agree but you remain vague on that. How can there be an "option" in this? School is for learning not praying..

Yes or no - Do you acknowledge and accept the separation of church and state or not?

Shame on the ones who trespass and who read such a sign and try their fate,,,my religion did not teach me that.

No, I dont believe there should be time ORGANIZED for the specific purpose of reserving ones religion in school. I do believe there should be the option for those with similar religious beliefs to observe them so long as those without those beliefs are not being MANDATED to observe them as well.

For instance, at my job, my coworker should be able to display or wear a star of jerusalem, or to discuss their(synagogue?) with another coworker who attends so long as it does not INTERFERE with their ability to do their work. If they are not being MANDATED to do such and I am not being MANDATED to participate in such a private conversation, I see no issue.

I believe that in school, religion should be treated like any other interest children may have. We dont set aside time for them to talk about hannah montana,, but we shouldnt BAN them from doing it or make them uncomfortable for doing it if they are still maintaining their ability to learn and complete their work.

IN essence, YES school is there for learning but NO that is not all kids do or are mandated to do while there.
So I OPPOSE mandating that anyone observe their beliefs at school but I also OPPOSE restricting those who wish to(as long as it doesnt disrupt class,, like any conversation or other activity done at school that isnt strictly learning).

Religion is in most things all around the world.. it was the main stay of society for most untill 40 years ago. Then still is in a vast majority.

We can not teach American history with out mentioning religioous customs that went on.

We can not teach about the far east without thier cultural religions being involved.

religion in schools is not the problem. Not having it along with punishments that the teacher does not have to worry about who she may offend.

So whats happened since the Athiest woman went to the supreme court about school prayer?

pregnacy has went up.. Disruptive behavior is almost out of control.

We have shootings in schools because these kids have lost all faith.



just take a graph from say 1960 or 1970 to presennt and see how much violence among youth has increased.

this is in direct corralation to the movement you Offend me.


Yet these same people accept christmas pay as a holiday. Why do you if you think it is so bad?



I do not agree with all these celebrations and if religion was not in school my kids would of had an easier time.


Instead they sat in the hallway while they drew christmas trees and sort same with Holloween and Easter.

and you know what. They never told thier friends what u r doing offends me.. They just explained they had different beliefs and went out to play.

If us adults did not try to fight so much in the name of the children you might find out they get along alot better.

but see children mimmick what they see and that ends up in the classroom.. Shalom...Miles

Of all that was said there...this one sentence says it all.

Religion is in most things all around the world.. it was the main stay of society for most untill 40 years ago. Then still is in a vast majority.

***Religion but not always religosity, "main stay"? Have you not read the thread to see the damage from your "main stay?

We can not teach American history with out mentioning religioous customs that went on.

***I agree and we do teach it in it's place in history but what I am opposed to is spending time in bible study in public schools, you have an option, a freedom in the US to send your kids to a private school if you want that.


religion in schools is not the problem. Not having it along with punishments that the teacher does not have to worry about who she may offend.

***That does that even mean? Floggings? Hail Marys?.

So whats happened since the Athiest woman went to the supreme court about school prayer?

pregnacy has went up.. Disruptive behavior is almost out of control.

***Where are your links, references to back these statements up? If I were to pick a single element relevant to a rise in pregnancies it would be because of the abstinence only program and the increase in teen drinking the last 25 years...1/2 of all HS kids drinks this drug...1/2 of all teen pregnancies occur when one or both of the participants is drunk on this drug...parents give kids half the drugs (alcohol) they get and for free...why is that and why is that not a "hot button" issue like prayer in school is?

We have shootings in schools because these kids have lost all faith.

***This is just crazy speak...again tie that together..egads.

just take a graph from say 1960 or 1970 to presennt and see how much violence among youth has increased.

***OK, where's the graph? Does it factor in other influences as well? I'll take a 1st year dissertation if you have it...lol.

this is in direct corralation to the movement you Offend me.

***you've proved nothing and how is rescuing people from extremism an insult...take what you want and leave the rest...or take nothing I guess huh?

Yet these same people accept christmas pay as a holiday. Why do you if you think it is so bad?

***I cannot be bought.

I do not agree with all these celebrations and if religion was not in school my kids would of had an easier time.

***???

Instead they sat in the hallway while they drew christmas trees and sort same with Holloween and Easter.

and you know what. They never told thier friends what u r doing offends me.. They just explained they had different beliefs and went out to play.

If us adults did not try to fight so much in the name of the children you might find out they get along alot better.

***you lost me, "in the name of the children"? What's this got to do with this thread?

but see children mimmick what they see and that ends up in the classroom.. Shalom...Miles

***So go after Jerry Springer not evolution...I guess...sorry but your debate is flimsy, vague, unsupported, and immaterial.

Ranks up there with complete truthiness.

bravo.

I want the eye taken of of US currency...

I want the Bible taken out of courts...

I want the pledge of allegience taken out of schools...

I want the Declaration of Independance re-worded...

I want "In God We Trust" taken of the currency...

I want X-mas, Easter and Halloween declared non-holidays...

I want all government workers to never mention their religion, INCLUDING the president...


I want, I want, I want, I want, I want people to grow up...


It is hipocritical to demand one aspect of church and state and not the rest!!!

I never said any of those things...there is a delicate balance but this thread is about people who are over the rainbow....and I think the eye is Masonic not specifically main stream Christianity.

As for courts, you have the option of not swearing on a bible.

As for holidays we don't have enough...how about a Humanist Day too?

We got MLK day! Yeah, Go MLK!

"In God We Trust" is a generic statement..it does not specify who or what god is and is up to the person seeing it...unless you are one who claims that "god" is a Christian god only...then you are over the rainbow as well.

Sure mention your religion but don't get upset when I tell you I am a non-believer and immune to your consultations...unless you're looking to find a reason to exclude me or dislike me.

In the military I swore to uphold the Codes of Conduct...and I was taught that again, it's up to the beholder to what "god" is...

I play guitar so Eric Clapton maybe?...lol.

None of what you listed here is true because of religion being removed from schools nor government.

Religion doesn't equal morality and when the religious get that through their hard heads we will all get along better.

Religion doesn't make you more moral, more worthy of trust, etc...

Religion basically doesn't make you a better person at any level.

Religion doesn't make others look on you with more respect.

Religion isn't anything except a belief you have that is different from others and it doesn't do anything for your appearance, reputation, morality, etc...

So when we can get over that annoying trait of the religious then we can discuss religion in a factual way.

The anoying trait is yours, I see noone else in here claiming to be more superior.

To make all those claims against religious people and then make those 2 last statements negates all of your claims.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Now my point is and i know i sometime get ahead of myself thinking out something futher than i should.

But my main issue is you are speaking of Extremist and wanting religion out of schools and everything else.

Now when we the people are subject to extremists views and we do not realize the agenda behind it then we all lose.

We need to wake up and see whats not only happening to our country but to alot of the world mmainly Europe since they will not hicccupp without our permission.


I guess no body has noticed the U S has decided what is good for oother countries.

Well it did not start thier. It started right here on the home front.

When your grandparents were parents and Good ole Andy and Gomer Pile were always around we did not get into all these things outside of the bible.

Now everyone knows the bible is a guideline. Not everyone in fact no one holds up to the bibles way of life.

But when you may of been a kid or for sure when your grandparents were starting out with children in school the main thing they worried about is maybe a fight or thier kid chewing gum in school.

Kids did not get buy with much because the school system was mainly run my the towns the school districts.

They made the kids mind and yes the 10 commandments may of been on the wall.. bad oh so BAD...


Now here we come along and say this ain't right you are imposing on my rights. We get enough ruckus going and of cource by now your mainstream media can show what ever they want an tv into almost every house hold in the country.


Now alot of people start complaining well he did it so will i and so on and so on.

I am sure you are starting to get the picture.


Now how did a few individuals turn the country into a battle ground over our schools.

No more the parents and the so called PTA and now more state and national control.

I mean a valictorian of his class should of earned the right to give his commencement speech and mention his faith and how it help him because I believe he earned that right.


But no now what has happened is those 10 commandments that was on the school wall that we so hated and got taken down. Now the Govt. has stepped in and decided for us what is right and what is wrong.

Judges have to have many lawyers on each side of a case to see if the pledge of Allegience in school is proper or not.


Talking about Extremism thier is Extremism when we have been so hood whacked that we do not know whats up or down because only lawyers can decide this and Yes Believe it or Not our Judicial system who decides whats good for us and the members of Congress who decideds whats good for us are mostly Lawyers.


Our govt. who led us in the path they wanted for controlof us out of our ignorance. We have allowed our Govt. to dictate to us and rule what they seen as good for control to over rule the majority of the people but for the good of the people.

Hitler said give me the children for a generation and I will have a nation.


You may think i am crazy and thats your right but even Head Start being brought in is not for the good of the child or Parent.

Now from 3 years old and up they are telling the children if you see mommy and dadday do something wrong u need to tell us so we can get them some help.

Flat out lying to the children A control issue again.

Now everyone need a darn theropists because thier parents were rotten parents.

Thats Extremism.

Those Bible based things that were only a few mere rules has now turned into a library that the schools has to have a lawyer on retainer to make sure they do not do something wrong.


We have been Duked by Extremism and it was not the Religious or anyone one else except they were led to the feeding trough and ate exactly what was given to them with out question.


We are a Nation of Idiots if we can not see thier is a Ruling class in this country who keeps us argueing so we will never come together to fight this EVIL thats upon us this day.


They got us to accussing each other and the more we fight the more rights they take away.. Just take a look at how many house bills were put at least on the agenda in your state this year.. better yet look at our congress.

Do you not think thier is not a reason for all these bills to be passed?

Yes because we all think the other is wrong and we are Extremists.

The ole Divide and Conquer Rule of Thought.

Well this is going to be long but to give you an example just read this from over in Germany and look who is raising hell about all of it.. Do you know who this family is? Shalom..Miles




The World Socialist Web Site is a socialist and not a “left extremist” publication. It is published by the International Committee of the Fourth International and its section in Germany, the Socialist Equality Party (PSG). It stands for a socialist orientation and the defence of democratic and social rights. The PSG has repeatedly taken part in German elections and is officially recognised as a party by the German electoral commission. It rejects as a matter of principle the methods of individual violence.

2. The article that was allegedly found at the scene of the attack, published by the WSWS on February 24, 2001 (March 8, 2001, in English), under the title “The deadly consequences of Germany’s refugee policy,” criticises German state policy towards foreigners. The article is correct in both its presentation of the facts and its political evaluation. It criticises the outrageous conditions confronting immigrants and gives concrete figures on the number of victims who have died or been injured as a result of police actions on the German and European borders. It bases itself on generally accessible sources of information that can be easily checked, including the ARD television programme Monitor, the Antiracist Initiative Berlin (ARI) and the daily newspaper tageszeitung. The article castigates the double-speak of the German federal government, which routinely condemns the “violence against foreigners when the violence is committed by neo-Nazis and racists on the street,” while “the message communicated by the anti-refugee actions of the German state reinforces the neo-Nazi calumny that the lives of ‘unwanted’ foreigners are worthless.”

3. The Brandenburg Intelligence Service’s claim that the publication of such an article promotes or produces an inclination toward violence has broad implications. It places any criticism of government policy in the orbit of illegal activity. If this is accepted, it is sufficient for a confused person or provocateur to break a few windows to provide the pretext for silencing political opponents of the government. With the same argument, any critic of the German government’s “Agenda 2010” program of social cutbacks could be made responsible for the actions of a desperate unemployed person who runs amok. Or one could accuse any opponent of the introduction of the euro in Sweden of “paving the way” to the murder of Swedish foreign minister Anna Lindt—a prominent advocate of the euro—who was stabbed to death at the height of the referendum campaign.

4. This sort of argumentation recalls the darkest days of German history. There have been decades of experience here of police states—both fascist and Stalinist. The police regimes of such states always maintain that political criticism of the government is equivalent to support of violence—and thereby justify the suppression of political opponents. The right to free speech guaranteed in the German constitution, on the other hand, expressly includes the right to criticise a government without in any way making oneself liable to prosecution.

5. The intelligence service justifies its claim of left extremism with regard to the WSWS with an amalgam of half-truths and falsehoods. On the one hand, it maintains that the text published in the WSWS proves the “left extremist background to the deed.” On the other hand, it substantiates the left extremist nature of the article by the fact that it was allegedly found at the scene of the attack. This is obviously a circular argument.

Unable to find anything in the article that could in any sense be interpreted as the advocacy of violence, the intelligence service foists its own statements on it. They write: “In many left extremist publications it is argued that through its own activities the state directly encourages the extreme right wing to deal violently with foreigners and refugees. Thereby the state shows its real—fascist—face. This is why anti-fascists must regard the state as their enemy.”

Once again, the intelligence service employs a circular argument. It maintains that the article by the WSWS is “left extremist” and then goes on to demonstrate this by introducing statements from fictitious “left extremist publications.” Such statements are nowhere to be found in the already mentioned WSWS article, or any other article published on the WSWS. The statement that the state “shows its real—fascist—face,” echoing the banal language of the Red Army Faction (RAF), is foisted on the WSWS, although it is nothing but an invention of the intelligence service itself.

6. It is a matter of public record that the German intelligence services work with the methods of infiltration and provocation. They have extensively penetrated extreme right-wing circles, and undercover agents of the intelligence services have on occasion taken part in acts of violence by these groups.

As early as the end of the 1970s, secret service agents blew a hole in the wall of the prison in the town of Celle, in order to fake a violent attempt to free an apparent member of the Red Army Faction. In the spring of this year, attempts to legally ban the neo-Nazi NPD (National Democratic Party of Germany) collapsed when it was revealed that one in seven leading members of the organisation was on the payroll of the German secret service. The extent of infiltration of the NPD led one constitutional judge to comment that many of the activities of the party could be regarded as “organised by the state.” There are a series of known cases where the Brandenburg Intelligence Service has employed right-wing extremists with a history of violence. The left radical milieu has also been penetrated by state agents in a state whose interior minister, under conditions of widespread right-wing violence, regularly warns of the danger of “underestimating left extremism.”

In light of this situation, it is necessary to pose the question: Were agents of the intelligence services involved in the attack on the Frankfurt immigration offices on September 16? Does the Brandenburg intelligence service know more than it is saying? Was it directly involved in planting the WSWS article at the scene?

There is a strange disparity between the accusations levelled against the WSWS and the official investigation into the attack on the Frankfurt immigration office. According to the state attorney in charge of the case, two weeks of investigation into the attack have proven fruitless. There is apparently little effort being made to further the probe. For its part, however, the Brandenburg Intelligence Service has published shortly after the attack an article devoting just a few lines to the actual assault and four fifths of its content to an attack on the WSWS.

For the religious...
For the non-religious...

You and Miles: "But no now what has happened is those 10 commandments that was on the school wall that we so hated and got taken down. Now the Govt. has stepped in and decided for us what is right and what is wrong."

How many of those commandments are laws? 2 and 1/2? Kill, steal, and (some) lies...I think one version even says something about "graven images" like the 2-ton one we have as a lawn ornament at the Okie Capital.

And no one is attacking religion, that's not really what this thread is about, it's about the extremists....am I one because I respect other beliefs and non beliefs? NO. Is it because I provided studies on the subject and you have none to offer so you just tag me back with this feigning attack attitude?...Probably.

~~~

Eh, now I would just be repeating things they choose not to debate from points they either didn't read or don't understand.

Who's lost?

Religion needs to stay in it's place. It is a personal thing so it needs to stay at the churches and homes.

Religion takes credit for what man would have done anyway without it.

As long as we believe what we are told then Extremist will exist. We have to look under the skin and see the real motives history has a way of repeating itself. The days of constitution is in the hands of the Elite Class. Classes of people have already changed and steering people and then saying they never said that or taught that is a secret Extremist not the norm and if you can not see who the intelligence agency that i posted is saying and they host a secret meetinng with all the main leaders of the world then i will leave you to yourself and The Extremist thought you have..Blessings...Miles

http://www.dispatch.com/live/contentbe/dispatch/2007/02/02/20070202-E2-01.html

http://www.anatheist.net/2009/08/does-atheism-inspire-mass-murder/

Faith is not something people 'put away' during certain times and dates and places. I think its so sad that we come to a time that because something I believe mentions or alludes to a GOD , people pressure me to keep it 'private' while all other matters of lifestyles and beliefs get the 'freedom of speech and expression' tagged on to them. I just want my right to speak of and express my religion to be covered in my freedoms as much as everyone elses right to express their feelings and thoughts and beliefs about things 'non religious'.

Revisionist writings....I posted a Harvard study earlier, find it or you can choose to believe some writer at the Columbus Dispatch revisonist's views to fit your truthiness...that write picked just from the Salem Witch Trials no the whole period...egads.

“30,000 to 50,000 killed during the 400 years from 1400 to 1800 — a large number but no Holocaust. And it wasn't all a burning time. Witches were hanged, strangled, and beheaded as well. Witch-hunting was not woman-hunting: At least 20 percent of all suspected witches were male. Midwives were not especially targeted; nor were witches liquidated as obstacles to professionalized medicine and mechanistic science.”

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0056.html

More...

Hitler Was a Christian

The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:

"History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed."

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

~~~~

Msharmony...who's pressuring you to keep it private? Not me, I am only pointing out that the extremists of your religion are the problem...and have been forever a thorn in the side of humanity and a roadblock to human progress, e.g. denying evolution is absurd with what we now know.....not sure you read the OP....?

I did, and I posted previously that I agree about extremism, Any time something has no balance(i.e an extreme) there will be problems. But the problem stems from extremism and not religion. Many of my posts agreed with you but other posts are in response to statements being made that paint all and any religion as mindless or extremist.

You are not pressuring me to do anything, I enjoy reading your point of view and appreciate your respectfulness.