I have a unique and fundamental understanding of truth.

I dedicated an entire thread to it.

Does truth equal information?

http://mingle2.com/topic/show/259330

You don't need to know exactly what actuality is to say if people believing something create it. You just said that we couldn't believe aliens out of existence after all and like I brought up a ways back how would people have ever started believing in aliens if the aliens weren't part of actuality before the belief?

Did somebody have a nightmare and then go and make life really bad for a whole lot of people because they were confused about what it was or does actuality not really care what people think?

The problem with this conversation is that "first" there is only one point of view. That point of view is yours to you, and it is mine to me. We don't have the same point of view. Nobody does.

Example:
If I absolutely positively did not believe in aliens, then for me, they do not exist. It does NOT MATTER what the actual truth is. For me, (unless I suddenly got abducted and I am transformed into a person who now does believe in aliens...) they don't exist...for me... in my personal reality, until I believe they do.

So beliefs can change. We KNOW THAT.

BUT what we don't know is if actuality changes.



"Somebody" meaning one person or entity? I would say NO. One person or entity (or even a God) did not "have a nightmare" and make life "really bad" for a whole lot of people.

This is where an individual needs to realize his part in the co-creation of this reality and take his share of responsibility for it because we all contribute our own "nightmares" to it. It is a group effort.

Are you looking for someone to blame for the fine mess we've gotten ourselves into like the Christians who blame the Devil?

When we begin to take responsibility for creation then and only then will we be conscious enough to change it to something better.

"Actuality" is the result of our mind manifestations here. NO, it does not care. It is not a conscious entity. It is the product of the group mind.

Because my life is real to me. It is my personal reality.

Thanks for repeating the issue I've already made clear.

But there's a problem. I though you said earlier that you couldn't be abducted because your beliefs wouldn't let it happen but here you've listed it as a possibility and specifically said that if that's how things actually are your belief would change to reflect it.

I've really been trying to say if things that are impossible via a set of beliefs could happen to someone with those beliefs. Looks like you agree that they can but you've been making everyone dance around on some other topic we obviously weren't concerned with.

I'm saying that one person had to think up the Devil first and then share the idea with others before there could be a lot of people imagining devils.

However that's only if the Devil was created by humanity. If the Devil existed before us then there could be many people that discovered as much independently of each other. If this is the case actuality would have influenced people before they ever had beliefs one way or the other about what the Devil was.


Which is the problem I've been getting at. This means somebody created aliens and that enough people adopted the idea to make them part of your reality and that you are a part of the reason they are here, though the first person is probably long dead.

More importantly this means that when you tell people about aliens you're strengthening their established presence but if instead you and everyone else decided to never mention aliens again they would be gone in just a generation.

NO I did not list it as a possibility I sited it as an example. I sited a simple example because I'm trying draw you a visual picture so that you could understand, but instead you just want to play a game of confusion and pretend that you do not know what I mean. You don't really want to understand, you want to distort the issue.

So your 'problem' with my example is a moot point because it was not statement, it was an EXAMPLE.

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I agree. But there is no way of knowing if the Devil (or a non-human sentient life form with horns and tail) is an actuality that existed before us or if it was something someone dreamed up.



Good point. (And I do agree to a point) But that is not EXACTLY how it works.

When I talk of the "group mind" it goes way beyond this petty little tiny spit of a planet. Therefore what the humans on this planet believe has very little effect or no effect on actuality as a whole in the face of a unimaginable entangled universe that very possibly exists along with other more vast material universes that we cannot see that scientists are calling "dark matter" or "invisible matter."

If I stopped talking about aliens and stopped believing in their existence it might change my personal reality and world view, but I don't know if that would have much effect on universal actuality. I would love to stop believing in them and I probably would if I could discover some reasonable solutions to the many earth mysteries that have been answered with that piece of the puzzle. To ignore the evidence and information I have found would be deluding myself and being closed minded. If the shoe fits, it fits. Unless someone can find another shoe.

Don't you usually give examples to show how things work? Why would you give me examples of things that couldn't happen without a little line about "and that's why it can't happen" on the end to make it clear what you're getting at?


Which one it is makes a really big difference though. If it's someone someone dreamed up then we will know it's possible to make more entities like the Devil and we would have to be careful not to do so.



That's called a tragedy of the commons. Notice how China has been saying "why should we stop polluting if America won't?" lately? Also a tragedy of the commons.

The "I don't really have any impact compared to everyone else" and "if I don't do it somebody else will" lines of thinking are a really easy way to make yourself not feel responsible for problems but all those other people are telling themselves they don't matter because you're just going to do it anyway. You're as responsible as any of them and it's this "everyone else is responsible" thinking that lets anyone do this crap in the first place.

But think about it. Humans are pretty much just on this one planet right? Most of the possible entities out there have never even heard of us so if just the aliens that mess around with Earth were to stop believing in us "poof" no more humans (after all we're practically nothing compared to all of that so if what we believe doesn't really have any impact we shouldn't be able to keep ourselves around either.)

This would not only get rid of us for the aliens that want as much but it would also give them more power of belief. If all the big intergalactic types went and did this they could get rid of more and more little groups until the big ones were able to just believe what they wanted and make the universe work that way all on their own.

With all the devils and things smaller planets go around dreaming up they would almost have to do this to have any hope of survival.

Yes I understand the dilemma. This is what I actually did about it. For two years I was hot on the subject of alien life forms and a bit obsessed with it. I learned a lot about the subject, but could never get my hands on any actual evidence and did not have the resources to go where I might find evidence or even see a ship or an alien. (although I have seen UFO's in the sky a time or two.)

I do have a life to live, after all. And I do realize that the more attention I place on them, the more I am contributing energy to their existence, and the more likely they would become part of my PERSONAL reality. I don'f not want that. So, basically I divorced the idea from my thoughts, in that I don't look for proof or evidence any more, and I don't get in their business and I don't expect people to believe they exist when I talk about them. I also don't resist the idea either. I just have an "oh well.." sort of attitude about the subject. If they exist, let them. If they don't I don't care either. I just accept what is, whatever it is, and I accept that we are all equally responsible for this reality and for our personal realities.

It is just like politicians. I don't get too involved with them either but I do know they exist. LOL. They have their power struggles, their corruption, and all that is the business of politicians. But I still talk about them sometimes.

Every person has a place in society and we tend to find our places and functions according to our interests and where we place our time and attention. I decided not to be a politician or an alien fighter or fan. But I still talk about them once in a while. It does not really bother me if people agree or disagree with me, or if they think I'm nuts because I allow what we have created to exist until we decide it does not exist anymore. I am not the all powerful creator of everything. Its a group project after all.

You've almost the only person here who brings them up. Most of the people here probably do ignore it but there are going to be some that don't. Considering how you're one of the main posters in this section of the forums and it seems like you've actually got a rather large impact.

But even if we assume that you haven't planted the idea in a single person's head you're still nurturing it in many. One of the big things about the internet is that people who were isolated find out that other people think and feel these things and they change their attitude about it immensely.

Now it would be much worse if you were making people feel ok about pedophilia and weirder if you were making them think it was natural to want to dress up like a penguin when they had sex but don't let that justify your actions. Somebody has to take responsibility if people are ever going to change and if everybody just waits for somebody else we'll never get anywhere.

I will accept what is, and I will not bury my head in the sand or avoid a subject just because some people don't happen to agree with me or like it.

If a meteor was headed for this planet and was going to be very destructive, would you rather not know about it? I am sure there are many people who would not want to know. There are also people who are very happy living their lives clueless about what is going on. I am not one of them. I have dedicated my life to truth and decided to see the truth of this reality that we (all of us) have had a part in manifesting from the beginning of time.

You think I am talking about one petty little lifetime, but I am talking about the vast infinite intelligent conscious universe.
We are on a different page and there is no reason for you to even talk to me.

This is a reminder to debate the topic or posts and not the poster(s)

Please debate in a civil manner.

Kim
Site Moderator

The way I see the universe? Ya, I'd want to know.

A different way where what I know determines what is real? No, if I didn't know about it it couldn't hurt me so trying to know about it and spreading the word would be making the world worse.

Another different world where a lot of people already know and make it real without enough time to change any of that? Well I'd be dead soon so it wouldn't matter than much but in general I prefer to be given a chance to mentally prepare myself so probably.

I don't think that spreading the word would make it worse because I believe that when the student is ready the teacher will appear.

That means, if you are not ready for a truth you simply will not see it or grasp it. You will not believe it. You will not assimilate it into your reality.

That is why it does not bother me when people poke fun at me for my beliefs and I am not bothered by people who don't believe as I do. They are just rejecting what I hold to be "probably" true. That is perfectly within their rights to do so. What ever gets them through the day.

I think of the problem of aliens (non-human sentient life forms) just as I think of any other problem. (Serial killers, terrorists, criminals, predators, the swine flue etc.) I don't obsess about it. I just like to have certain information in case I do need it. (It is good to know a little about your enemy just in case you do run into a problem.)

(For example, did you know that a reptilian can die from eating chocolate, so can a dog or a lizard.) Chocolate is actually poison, but humans have something in their system that makes them immune to the poison.)

What other people think about me is none of my business.

He's right, Jeannie:
BETTER STAY IGNORANT THAN INADVERTENRLY INVOKE THE LAW OF ATTRACTION!!! ________ BETTER STAY IGNORANT !!!

Ignorance is bliss.

I still don't get it. If I don't believe these things aren't they not part of my reality and thus not true?

Shoku:

You remind me of an austrige that hides his head under the wing, when faced with the danger! (i.e. I see no evil, I hear no evil -- there isn't any evil!!!)

...But the danger is approaching nevertheless!!!

You choose not to believe these things. So far you have not made them part of your reality, so whether they are true or not is a moot point. Subjectively, at this point, for you, it does not matter.

Actually I'm using the groundwork JB laid out. I don't doubt that rock's got a path close enough to Earth that we should pay attention to it but your info paints it as a slim chance AND with how I know that we've basically already done the things with satellites that we would want to-

Well it's handled isn't it? No point actually building stuff until relatively soon before we'd wanna launch it anyway because we get so much better at this stuff each year and why would you want all that material just sitting there gathering dust while you waited for the window to launch?

To put it another way: we've already been spending money solving this problem. I'm all for better funding for the space program but your little (mini)doomsday scare isn't a good reason for it. Maybe a decade ago or something it was but now it's something we've got the full plan for how to handle.

I guess maybe if society collapsed and everyone decided to bury their head in the sand like an ostrich instead of bothering to look at the sky we'd be in a bad position but even if we failed phenomenally and didn't budge the rock at all it would still only have that 1 in 250,000 chance of it hitting.

I recall that "that's still risky when you're wagering the Earth" but we're not wagering the Earth or even humanity and if all our efforts fail to move it we don't have any other bets we can make anyway.


I suspect this hasn't really dissuaded you though. Here's what you can do instead: explain some of the details about what you want money spent on. "I want to turn the dollars into better odds for us" would basically be the opposite of what I've just asked for as that has no details of HOW to change the odds.

Bring up things we don't understand about deflecting a rock of that sort or some kind of rocket problem. "I don't think it's good enough" is again not the kind of answer I'm looking for. Lemme know why or how.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJZQwy9dvE