Body is the anchor that keeps us in the physical reality.

Soul is the path to the spiritual reality.

Spirit is what we are. The part of us that is a Child of God.

I do not fear death as it will free my spirit. I live because I AM.

After reading this thread in it's entirety it does nothing more than
confirm my belief that organised religion and cults exist to simply
control people.
It seems that there is no end to the tricks people will use to sell
their particular brand of religion. Just because it's out on video
doesn't make it any more enticing.
If the "product" is really that good wouldn't you think it would sell
itself? Direct from the source. No salesman neccessary.

Harry

Hi Andrea

Hello to everyone else too

Kidatheart wrote:
“It seems that there is no end to the tricks people will use to sell
their particular brand of religion.”

It genuinely is utterly disgraceful. No wonder so many people find
Christianity repugnant.

Spider wrote:
“Valuing human life isn't paranoia. That's quite the leap of logic
there, don't you think?”

If you interpret the Bible as poorly as you interpret my posts it’s no
wonder that you paint such an hideous picture of god.

Abra,

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood what you typed. What did you mean
by "Why are people so frigging paranoid about death?" I get confused
easily, so you will have to forgive me.

Hello all

Perhaps it is my foggy brain due to lack of sleep but ... I have to
wonder about a few things regarding this man's experience in Hell....

1. Science shows that we cannot have a universe without mind enterring
into it. We perceive our reality and our reality is shaped by our minds
and our perception.

I do not doubt that the man experienced something and that for him it
was very real. I do wonder though how much his preconceived notions
play into the reality he experienced.


2. He also speaks of physical pain...burning flesh, broken bones, torn
flesh ... and the inability to take a full breath.

Our bodies serve us in this lifetime ... they are good for locomotion -
moving us from point A to point B ... and for storage - of memory, of
emotion. We leave them behind when we die so why would we have
experiences like inability to breathe and broken bones when there is
simply spirit - energy, consciousness.

...I am just wondering out loud maybe but this does not resinate as
truth within my heart.

I resonate with the notion of one source...nothing separate.

I also agree with some others - human beings have created our versions
of hell right here on earth.

If this man's version of Hell resonates as truth for you then you will
pick it up and carry it with you.

The God I know is not fear based so I will leave it on the ground where
it lay...

Kat

Abra writes:

"It genuinely is utterly disgraceful. No wonder so many people find
Christianity repugnant."

For me, it's not the 'Christ-like' things I find repugnant, it's how the
whole establishment got hijacked very early on by that opportunistic
rough trade misogynist, Paul. It took me a lot of years of reading and
talking to other free thinkers to put this theory together.

I'll bet a lot of us were bugged by the contraditions of the new
testament, where a mild-mannered progressive founded a religion based on
love, only to have it veer sharply back again to old testament fire and
brimstone or, as I sometimes think of it, postmodern Leviticus.

But, when you consider that Paul is the man behind the curtain pulling
the strings for most of the new testament. It makes even more sense that
it should have become a combative, masculine religion more interested in
kicking butts of the non-believers, using such violent symbolism as Hell
to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). Especially when you
consider how he felt about the role of women in the Church.

Enh. It's less a mystery than we're led to believe. I think that
repugnant feeling is more a reaction to the Paulists pulling the strings
than one of that feeling towards Christ's part in founding it, even
though it bears his name.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. But you see it even here, in the
writings of authoritarian fundamentalists.


-Kerry O.

Jesus taught more about Hell than any other single subject, in his
ministry. Jesus taught much more about hell than Paul did.

Kerry O. wrote:
“For me, it's not the 'Christ-like' things I find repugnant, it's how
the whole establishment got hijacked very early on by that
opportunistic rough trade misogynist, Paul.”

I absolutely agree with you Kerry. Jesus actually taught wonderful
things. However, even the teachings of Jesus were corrupted by his very
disciples. Not with the intentional wrath of someone like Paul, but
with innocent misunderstandings. They simply put all of the Old
Testament junk right back into it all over again.

I believe that Jesus was actually trying to do away with the old
picture. He taught to turn the other cheek rather than an eye for an
eye and a tooth for a tooth. He was definitely attempting to change
the laws of the older beliefs. But unfortunately Jesus was not a
writer. He was simply a preacher. To the best of my knowledge there is
not one single word recorded anywhere that Jesus actually wrote. In
some ways this is a terrible shame. I often wonder why Jesus never
wrote anything?

What people claim today to be the ‘words’ of Jesus are not the words of
Jesus at all but vague and often misinterpreted hearsay account written
by the disciples several decades after Jesus had died. Moreover, even
those writings were passed down and translated into differnet languages
by men who also had preconceived ideas based on their belief in older
scriptures. There is no question in my mind that these men would slant
their interpretations toward how they originally perceived their view of
the religion. They ‘made’ Jesus fit into their religion more than
anything else.

I seriously believe that if Jesus was alive today he would denounce the
‘Christian’ religion that carries his name. I firmly believe this.

Spider wrote:
“Jesus taught more about Hell than any other single subject, in his
ministry. Jesus taught much more about hell than Paul did.”

We can’t know for sure what Jesus taught. We have no clue. All we have
to go on is the interpretations of men who tried to sew the teachings of
Jesus in with an older religion that they already knew. We should
expect that they would taint his teachings with what they already felt
should be true. Jesus never wrote a single solitary word in the Bible.
Nary a word.

Abra,

Jesus wrote the entire Bible, so I trust every word in it to be true.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.

religion STINKS
lifes a hoot i would not mind liven
life forever and ever on this beautifull planet .cause i dont wanna die
i just wanna ride my motor cycle.

You worship Jesus
But she worships Odin
And somebody else worships Ganesha
You just can't win
And so it goes
Till the day you die
This thing they call religion
It's gonna make you cry
I've had the blues
The reds and the pinks
One thing for sure

Religion stinks yeah yeah

Spider - That's the 'SPIRIT'

Artgurl - I liked your train of thought. Hell of the nature described
is totally physical and as you stated, how can the physical feel or
sense anything when it no longer functions?

Spider you believe every word of the bible to be true? Why do you tell
me so much that what Yahweh said is not what he means? We can not have
it both ways? Sounds like confusion Spider. Miles

Milesoftheusa,

If you are going to disagree with me on something, please quote it. I'm
not sure what you are talking about.

you said it not to long ago..

Thu 05/31/07 05:03 PM
Abra,

Jesus wrote the entire Bible, so I trust every word in it to be true.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Miles

MILES YOU CLAIM TO BE GODLY YET YOU DO SAY THINGS AGAINST GOD LIKE THERE
IS NO HELL, JESUS HIMSELF SAID THAT THERE WILL BE THE GOATS WHOM ARE NOT
GODLY PEOPLE ON ONE SIDE GOING TO HELL ON THE OTHER SIDE THE SHEEP WHOM
ARE GOD'S CHILDREN