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Topic: Obamacare
no photo
Tue 09/29/09 06:06 PM

Deregulation doesn't work. We've seen that.


When? Where?

Winx's photo
Tue 09/29/09 06:47 PM


Deregulation doesn't work. We've seen that.


When? Where?


Financial institutions, the airlines, utilities, and Wall Street.


no photo
Tue 09/29/09 06:58 PM
Edited by Spidercmb on Tue 09/29/09 07:12 PM
As you see below, all of those are still regulated...And this list is just what I knew of the top of my head or could quickly google. I'm sure there could be more regulators than I have listed here.


Financial institutions

Regulatory Authorities: The Federal Reserve and United States Department of the Treasury.


the airlines

Regulatory Authorities: FAA


utilities

Regulatory Authorities: Department of Energy. Environmental Protection Agency.


Wall Street.

Regulatory Authorities: Securities and Exchange Commission, The New York Stock Exchange, National Association of Securities Dealers.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Tue 09/29/09 07:46 PM






I'm sorry to hear about your illness, but I don't think socialized medicine is the answer.

Deregulation would allow for cheaper insurance through competition. You would also be able to buy insurance that doesn't cover your glaucoma, which would cover any other health issues you develop.

The problem right now is that insurance companies are required by law to cover pre-existing conditions of which they are aware when you buy the insurance. This makes it so that someone like you can't get insurance to cover all other health issues, but exclude glaucoma from your plan. It's over regulation that has done this, not the lack of regulation.

Glaucoma medications cost anywhere from $150.81 to $873.98 per year, according to the American Journal of Ophthalmology.

If you need the surgery, it's possible to get it on a payment plan for $87 / month.

http://www.surgicalservicesinternational.com/glaucoma.htm

Don't wait for insurance to cover you, do something now, for your daughter's sake. You should get a doctor to determine which you need (surgery or medicine or both) and then get regular checkups. I think that considering the benefits, it would be better to go into short-term debt than allow yourself to go blind.


He lives in my city. I know what he's talking about regarding our state health system. Our past governor butchered it so you could only make less then $200 a month to receive it. Yep, he was a Republican.

Deregulation doesn't work. We've seen that.

Obama is right in wanting insurances to accept people with pre-existing conditions. He's also right in wanting to stop insurances from rescinding policies. I think it's downright scary that they can do that now.




To point something out real quick, we have not seen any serious deregulation in the last 100 years. The only thing that's happened is increasing regulation.

I totally agree that people need help that have preexisting conditions. Healthcare should be available to everyone.

Problem is, anyone with preexisting conditions will bankrupt any insurance company. Remember, in order to pay the insurance employees, and afford to pay out on customer fees, the company must make a profit.

Something that intrigues me is a private practice run by a Dr. Robert Berry. He made a great deal of effort to operate out of our system of HMO's, government regulations, etc. He does this by simply not accepting Medicade or Medicare, and therefore completely cuts out the governt thrid party providers. As a result, a routine visit from him will only cost a patient about $35.


Drivinmenutz's photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:08 PM

What would cost a normal insurance company $3,000 would cost the U.S. government over $20,000. The problem is in the huge size of the buearus appointed to do every little job. Everyone needs to get paid. And if you have connections, you can charge a little extra for a product because Uncle Sam is willing to pay, and has seemingly bottomless pockets.

Now, the inefficiency has gotten so bad, that these programs are shortchanging the hospitals.

In my hospital for instance, we LOSE money every time we take on a medicare patient. Not only is the government 5 years behind in their payments (they owe my hospital $40-some-odd million dollars), but even if they made their payments it wouldn't be enough to covern the cost of the care provided to the patients. So, as a result, the hospitals need to charge someone else a bit more to make up the difference.

Thats where this mess started hitting private insurance. The cost of routine visits became too expensive for the average person to afford regularly, so they jacked up their premiums, and offered to pay the difference. Bottom line is, the insurance workers need to get paid. Which means they need to take in a great deal more money than they give out.

Now you have increased regulations on hospitals that put more financial strain on them, requiring more staff. Now they are downsizing. Pushing old employees away as fast as they can, making them want to quit because they can't afford their wages anymore.

So, now we, the customers, are paying for all the bueaucrats that put strain on the hospitals, we are paying for all the employees in the private insurance industry, and are paying billing companies and their employees, and we are paying the hospital staff of doctors, nurses, therapists, nutritionists, assistents ect. To top it all off everyone needs benefits, so we are paying for them too. There is no wonder, to me, why healthcare is so expensive.

Eliminate buearacracy, and the red tape to go with it. Insurance should only be used for serious cases that would break a person's bank account. We would all pay $35 a visit and be seen much quicker.

That would be a good start i think...

mo_muirnin's photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:25 PM


What would cost a normal insurance company $3,000 would cost the U.S. government over $20,000. The problem is in the huge size of the buearus appointed to do every little job. Everyone needs to get paid. And if you have connections, you can charge a little extra for a product because Uncle Sam is willing to pay, and has seemingly bottomless pockets.

Now, the inefficiency has gotten so bad, that these programs are shortchanging the hospitals.

In my hospital for instance, we LOSE money every time we take on a medicare patient. Not only is the government 5 years behind in their payments (they owe my hospital $40-some-odd million dollars), but even if they made their payments it wouldn't be enough to covern the cost of the care provided to the patients. So, as a result, the hospitals need to charge someone else a bit more to make up the difference.

Thats where this mess started hitting private insurance. The cost of routine visits became too expensive for the average person to afford regularly, so they jacked up their premiums, and offered to pay the difference. Bottom line is, the insurance workers need to get paid. Which means they need to take in a great deal more money than they give out.

Now you have increased regulations on hospitals that put more financial strain on them, requiring more staff. Now they are downsizing. Pushing old employees away as fast as they can, making them want to quit because they can't afford their wages anymore.

So, now we, the customers, are paying for all the bueaucrats that put strain on the hospitals, we are paying for all the employees in the private insurance industry, and are paying billing companies and their employees, and we are paying the hospital staff of doctors, nurses, therapists, nutritionists, assistents ect. To top it all off everyone needs benefits, so we are paying for them too. There is no wonder, to me, why healthcare is so expensive.

Eliminate buearacracy, and the red tape to go with it. Insurance should only be used for serious cases that would break a person's bank account. We would all pay $35 a visit and be seen much quicker.

That would be a good start i think...


Well said. I'd pay $35 for a doctors visit. And having insurance just for the important problems is a great idea.

I have absolutely no insurance and recently lost my job to moving 2000 miles, then I go look for a job, i've had one interview and applied many places...it's hard to find a job right now. I put my son on medicaid because HE NEEDS it, he's young and recently found out he has a hearing problem that will affect him for the rest of his life...i'm thankful medicaid is there to help out (like another person here said they've worked there butt off, so have I - Just because people have medicaid doesn't make them trashy or less than anyone else). Jobs now days don't even give P/T insurance, most don't even offer Dental or Vision! I"m going to be paying out of my pocket $1700 to have all 4 of my wisdom teeth removed in 2 days (due to serious complications). $1700 that can be used for something else, but since I don't have insurance, there it goes down the drain...all for the sake of my health.

Private insurance companies are very risky and you pay out the *** just to have it and you may not use it but a few times a year. I don't know if I am fully for a national health care system...that means more waiting to be seen and less time with patients....but that also happens with private insurance companies too and sometimes they won't pay. I think i'd rather stick with no insurance, LOL!

no photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:39 PM

Well said. I'd pay $35 for a doctors visit. And having insurance just for the important problems is a great idea.

I have absolutely no insurance and recently lost my job to moving 2000 miles, then I go look for a job, i've had one interview and applied many places...it's hard to find a job right now. I put my son on medicaid because HE NEEDS it, he's young and recently found out he has a hearing problem that will affect him for the rest of his life...i'm thankful medicaid is there to help out (like another person here said they've worked there butt off, so have I - Just because people have medicaid doesn't make them trashy or less than anyone else). Jobs now days don't even give P/T insurance, most don't even offer Dental or Vision! I"m going to be paying out of my pocket $1700 to have all 4 of my wisdom teeth removed in 2 days (due to serious complications). $1700 that can be used for something else, but since I don't have insurance, there it goes down the drain...all for the sake of my health.

Private insurance companies are very risky and you pay out the *** just to have it and you may not use it but a few times a year. I don't know if I am fully for a national health care system...that means more waiting to be seen and less time with patients....but that also happens with private insurance companies too and sometimes they won't pay. I think i'd rather stick with no insurance, LOL!


I hear what you are saying. But 85% of people are happy with their insurance...let's leave them alone.

15% need insurance. Everyone in that group should be helped out in some way. Allow charities to help buy them health insurance and the government cover any who aren't covered by the charities.

Make it so that women don't have to have insurance that covers testicular cancer or viagra. The government currently decides what insurance companies have to cover and then everyone gets thrown in together. So I'm paying more so that some people can get mammograms, viagra, birth control pills, etc that I will never use!

Imagine personalized insurance, with everyone being covered by their own plan, like car or house insurance. Bundle with your wife or kids to reduce rates! Cover only the conditions you could be effected by. It would be happy happy joy joy time for everyone.

Yeah, Insurance Company's would make less money due to competition, but that's how the cookie crumbles. At least they wouldn't be forced out of business, increasing our already skyrocketing unemployment.

mo_muirnin's photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:41 PM


Well said. I'd pay $35 for a doctors visit. And having insurance just for the important problems is a great idea.

I have absolutely no insurance and recently lost my job to moving 2000 miles, then I go look for a job, i've had one interview and applied many places...it's hard to find a job right now. I put my son on medicaid because HE NEEDS it, he's young and recently found out he has a hearing problem that will affect him for the rest of his life...i'm thankful medicaid is there to help out (like another person here said they've worked there butt off, so have I - Just because people have medicaid doesn't make them trashy or less than anyone else). Jobs now days don't even give P/T insurance, most don't even offer Dental or Vision! I"m going to be paying out of my pocket $1700 to have all 4 of my wisdom teeth removed in 2 days (due to serious complications). $1700 that can be used for something else, but since I don't have insurance, there it goes down the drain...all for the sake of my health.

Private insurance companies are very risky and you pay out the *** just to have it and you may not use it but a few times a year. I don't know if I am fully for a national health care system...that means more waiting to be seen and less time with patients....but that also happens with private insurance companies too and sometimes they won't pay. I think i'd rather stick with no insurance, LOL!


I hear what you are saying. But 85% of people are happy with their insurance...let's leave them alone.

15% need insurance. Everyone in that group should be helped out in some way. Allow charities to help buy them health insurance and the government cover any who aren't covered by the charities.

Make it so that women don't have to have insurance that covers testicular cancer or viagra. The government currently decides what insurance companies have to cover and then everyone gets thrown in together. So I'm paying more so that some people can get mammograms, viagra, birth control pills, etc that I will never use!

Imagine personalized insurance, with everyone being covered by their own plan, like car or house insurance. Bundle with your wife or kids to reduce rates! Cover only the conditions you could be effected by. It would be happy happy joy joy time for everyone.

Yeah, Insurance Company's would make less money due to competition, but that's how the cookie crumbles. At least they wouldn't be forced out of business, increasing our already skyrocketing unemployment.


If we could choose healthcare like we can customize a car, that would be awesome. That would in the long run make more money for health care companies as more people would be able to afford and then doctors could accept any insurance company!

no photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:46 PM

If we could choose healthcare like we can customize a car, that would be awesome. That would in the long run make more money for health care companies as more people would be able to afford and then doctors could accept any insurance company!


No, I think the competition would cut their rates way down. The only way health insurance companies are forced to compete in the US is in the federal insurance plan. The legislation allows them to have virtual monopolies in every state.

mo_muirnin's photo
Tue 09/29/09 08:52 PM


If we could choose healthcare like we can customize a car, that would be awesome. That would in the long run make more money for health care companies as more people would be able to afford and then doctors could accept any insurance company!


No, I think the competition would cut their rates way down. The only way health insurance companies are forced to compete in the US is in the federal insurance plan. The legislation allows them to have virtual monopolies in every state.


yes but competition would run out the ones scamming everyone...and bring it down to the companies that are honestly trying to help others with insurance.

I have yet to hear about a charity that helps out the uninsured for help. Besides federal insurance is changing...Medicaid for women no longer offers dental unless they are pregnant, you are limited on vision and no major surgery. The funding for Federal Healthcare is just not there, they are losing money..it's not just the private insurance companies. Like was said above, those guys drive very expensive cars......Do they have to worry about insurance? No way.

Winx's photo
Tue 09/29/09 09:26 PM



If we could choose healthcare like we can customize a car, that would be awesome. That would in the long run make more money for health care companies as more people would be able to afford and then doctors could accept any insurance company!


No, I think the competition would cut their rates way down. The only way health insurance companies are forced to compete in the US is in the federal insurance plan. The legislation allows them to have virtual monopolies in every state.


yes but competition would run out the ones scamming everyone...and bring it down to the companies that are honestly trying to help others with insurance.

I have yet to hear about a charity that helps out the uninsured for help. Besides federal insurance is changing...Medicaid for women no longer offers dental unless they are pregnant, you are limited on vision and no major surgery. The funding for Federal Healthcare is just not there, they are losing money..it's not just the private insurance companies. Like was said above, those guys drive very expensive cars......Do they have to worry about insurance? No way.


In 2005, Missouri's ex-Governor Blunt (Republican) cut Medicaid terribly. A family of three could not earn more then $4,701 annually and receive it. 15,000 elderly people lost state aid. Many disabled people did too. He cut dental and optical except for pregnant women, children and the visually impaired.

Quadriplegics couldn't get adaptable equipment to transfer them from their beds. People in wheelchairs couldn't get batteries for their wheelchairs. Sooo many things were cut from the program. It was a sad day.


no photo
Tue 09/29/09 09:43 PM

yes but competition would run out the ones scamming everyone...and bring it down to the companies that are honestly trying to help others with insurance.


They aren't scamming anyone. They are regulated and monitored. That's just leftist talking points. They don't currently compete, that's the major problem right now.


I have yet to hear about a charity that helps out the uninsured for help.


They don't exist, yet. At least to my knowledge.


Besides federal insurance is changing...Medicaid for women no longer offers dental unless they are pregnant, you are limited on vision and no major surgery. The funding for Federal Healthcare is just not there, they are losing money..it's not just the private insurance companies. Like was said above, those guys drive very expensive cars......Do they have to worry about insurance? No way.


What better reason could there be to NOT be on a government plan! If a company reduces coverage, you can choose a different company. If you depend on the government for your health care, they can change the plan and you can't do a damn thing about it. And they will still get elected. They can cut medicare / medicaid / social security anytime they want...as long as it's not an election year and nobody will remember. Obama recently cut Social Security benefits for 30% of recipients. You should always be able to depend on yourself for these things, because you are the only person you can depend on in the end.

Winx's photo
Tue 09/29/09 09:48 PM
When did Obama cut Social Security?

no photo
Tue 09/29/09 09:57 PM
Edited by Spidercmb on Tue 09/29/09 09:57 PM

When did Obama cut Social Security?


Social Security

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A8V4080&show_article=1
http://axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show?id=18562

Notice that this is a democrat website
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4549770

Not social security, but cutting the benefit for the vets.

http://james4america.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/obama-urges-cut-to-military-benefits-for-elderly-wwii-vets/


mo_muirnin's photo
Tue 09/29/09 10:20 PM


yes but competition would run out the ones scamming everyone...and bring it down to the companies that are honestly trying to help others with insurance.


They aren't scamming anyone. They are regulated and monitored. That's just leftist talking points. They don't currently compete, that's the major problem right now.


I have yet to hear about a charity that helps out the uninsured for help.


They don't exist, yet. At least to my knowledge.


Besides federal insurance is changing...Medicaid for women no longer offers dental unless they are pregnant, you are limited on vision and no major surgery. The funding for Federal Healthcare is just not there, they are losing money..it's not just the private insurance companies. Like was said above, those guys drive very expensive cars......Do they have to worry about insurance? No way.


What better reason could there be to NOT be on a government plan! If a company reduces coverage, you can choose a different company. If you depend on the government for your health care, they can change the plan and you can't do a damn thing about it. And they will still get elected. They can cut medicare / medicaid / social security anytime they want...as long as it's not an election year and nobody will remember. Obama recently cut Social Security benefits for 30% of recipients. You should always be able to depend on yourself for these things, because you are the only person you can depend on in the end.


Yes and my whole point about it, what you seemed to miss is that Private insurance companies are no different...they add what they want and cut what they want, the same as federal funding. Private insurance companies would lose just as much money as federal..honestly, who's the better option? I'll give you one thing though....you were right about saying the only person to depend on is yourself.

Winx's photo
Tue 09/29/09 10:23 PM
Edited by Winx on Tue 09/29/09 10:33 PM


When did Obama cut Social Security?


Social Security

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A8V4080&show_article=1
http://axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show?id=18562

Notice that this is a democrat website
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4549770

Not social security, but cutting the benefit for the vets.

http://james4america.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/obama-urges-cut-to-military-benefits-for-elderly-wwii-vets/



Spider, he didn't cut the vets' benefits.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/veteranshealth.asp

Regarding Social Security. I know now what you're talking about. I didn't consider that to be a cut. They aren't getting their cost-of-living increase next year.

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