2 Next
Topic: Genetic/Cellular Memory
metalwing's photo
Sat 09/19/09 04:36 PM

I think the terms being used here are a little "loose". Genetic memory and instinct are not the same thing.

The sperm you produce at forty are one half the genetic material from each of your parents. This is the same genetic material you pass on at age twenty. Your experiences do not affect the genetics of sperm production. This is the aspect of "genetic memory" that science says cannot exist, i.e., sperm cannot pass on memories.

Instincts are neural hardwired programming built into your brain and nervous system as part of your species. It makes you hungry, seek meat to eat, desire to stay alive, etc. Instincts make up a very very small part of your nervous system. The instincts of a spider can cause beautiful webs to be spun, complex patterns of mating, and incredibly complex acts of prey stalking. As creatures become more complex, so do their instincts.

You will be attracted to women with a distinct curve to the hip because it indicates the ability to have children. You will be attracted to women with larger breasts because it shows the ability to feed your young. Certain pheromones produced by the female will cause hormone and adrenalin production which will shut done most of your conscious brain activity and allow you to be controlled.

Instincts and genetic memory are a bit like apples and oranges.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Not being a materialist, I didn't spend much thought on whether or not the genes had the capacity to store and pass along enough information to account for instinct. But from what you've said it is obvious that they don't.

Of couse, not being a materialist, I don't subscribe to the "Instincts are neural hardwired programming built into your brain and nervous system as part of your species" theory either. But that's neither here nor there.

Thanks for setting me straight on the "genetic memory" issue. drinker


Let me explain what "neural hardwired programming" is. It is not a theory. It just "is".

In addition to how big your muscles are, the color of your skin, and every other detail of your body your dna dictates, it also sets forth various connections from brain cell to brain cell and sets the condition for the timing and circumstances that these brain cells to activate and contact each other. This process is call neural net programming and it is hardwired into your brain at birth.

When the sensory input of your brain receives impulses from your stomach that it is hungry a neural net program could activate to cause your chest muscles to contract, your mouth to open and for large amounts of air to be forced between your vocal chords in just the right sequence to "cry" in the way that the neural net programing of your mother's brain will understand that you are hungry ... instinctively.

The sensory nerves around your face will detect heat setting up a neural net program to force your mouth to "hunt". Upon finding the right object, your lips will work in a complex way with the set of muscles in parts of your mouth and throat to suck and swallow. This is another hardwired neural net program that just "is". It is not a theory. If you are born without the genes to form these patterns, you die of hunger and do not pass those genes to anyone else.

A theory of how such programming came into being is something like as follows:

A group of humans moves to a jungle area and has children. One half (just like today) of the children are mild mannered and one half are loud and excitable. One half make a lot of noise and one half make little, just due to the genes passed on from the grandparents.

In this particular area, unknown to the humans, predators exist that hunt mostly by sound. The loud children are eaten and do not pass along dna with that trait. The quite children survive to breed and have less risk from sound seeking predators.

Group two of humans moves to a area near water. The water has crocodiles that move quickly to grab prey. The slowest children are eaten. The fastest children survive to breed and pass along not only the physical ability of speed but the neural net programming that causes the "instinct" to run quickly at the first hint of something coming to eat you. Thousands of years later, without anything trying to eat you, you still have the "instincts" given to you by your ancestors.

These traits vary from species to species and explain that, after many generations of breeding in pens, rabbits cower at the shadow of an hawk.


SkyHook5652's photo
Sat 09/19/09 06:07 PM


I think the terms being used here are a little "loose". Genetic memory and instinct are not the same thing.

The sperm you produce at forty are one half the genetic material from each of your parents. This is the same genetic material you pass on at age twenty. Your experiences do not affect the genetics of sperm production. This is the aspect of "genetic memory" that science says cannot exist, i.e., sperm cannot pass on memories.

Instincts are neural hardwired programming built into your brain and nervous system as part of your species. It makes you hungry, seek meat to eat, desire to stay alive, etc. Instincts make up a very very small part of your nervous system. The instincts of a spider can cause beautiful webs to be spun, complex patterns of mating, and incredibly complex acts of prey stalking. As creatures become more complex, so do their instincts.

You will be attracted to women with a distinct curve to the hip because it indicates the ability to have children. You will be attracted to women with larger breasts because it shows the ability to feed your young. Certain pheromones produced by the female will cause hormone and adrenalin production which will shut done most of your conscious brain activity and allow you to be controlled.

Instincts and genetic memory are a bit like apples and oranges.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Not being a materialist, I didn't spend much thought on whether or not the genes had the capacity to store and pass along enough information to account for instinct. But from what you've said it is obvious that they don't.

Of course, not being a materialist, I don't subscribe to the "Instincts are neural hardwired programming built into your brain and nervous system as part of your species" theory either. But that's neither here nor there.

Thanks for setting me straight on the "genetic memory" issue. drinker


Let me explain what "neural hardwired programming" is. It is not a theory. It just "is".

In addition to how big your muscles are, the color of your skin, and every other detail of your body your dna dictates, it also sets forth various connections from brain cell to brain cell and sets the condition for the timing and circumstances that these brain cells to activate and contact each other. This process is call neural net programming and it is hardwired into your brain at birth.

When the sensory input of your brain receives impulses from your stomach that it is hungry a neural net program could activate to cause your chest muscles to contract, your mouth to open and for large amounts of air to be forced between your vocal chords in just the right sequence to "cry" in the way that the neural net programing of your mother's brain will understand that you are hungry ... instinctively.

The sensory nerves around your face will detect heat setting up a neural net program to force your mouth to "hunt". Upon finding the right object, your lips will work in a complex way with the set of muscles in parts of your mouth and throat to suck and swallow. This is another hardwired neural net program that just "is". It is not a theory. If you are born without the genes to form these patterns, you die of hunger and do not pass those genes to anyone else.

A theory of how such programming came into being is something like as follows:

A group of humans moves to a jungle area and has children. One half (just like today) of the children are mild mannered and one half are loud and excitable. One half make a lot of noise and one half make little, just due to the genes passed on from the grandparents.

In this particular area, unknown to the humans, predators exist that hunt mostly by sound. The loud children are eaten and do not pass along dna with that trait. The quite children survive to breed and have less risk from sound seeking predators.

Group two of humans moves to a area near water. The water has crocodiles that move quickly to grab prey. The slowest children are eaten. The fastest children survive to breed and pass along not only the physical ability of speed but the neural net programming that causes the "instinct" to run quickly at the first hint of something coming to eat you. Thousands of years later, without anything trying to eat you, you still have the "instincts" given to you by your ancestors.

These traits vary from species to species and explain that, after many generations of breeding in pens, rabbits cower at the shadow of an hawk.
Forgive me for expressing myself poorly. I probably should have said “philosophy” instead of “theory”.

I wasn’t trying to say that “neural hardwired programming” doesn’t exist. I was only trying to say that I don’t believe that the definitive source of the “programming” is entirely materialistic in nature - i.e. environmental influence.

So, to recant my original statement, I’d like to say that "Instincts are neural hardwired programming built into your brain and nervous system as part of your species" is a definition, which really says nothing about who or what “built it in” or how it was done. The assumption that it was done by the “natural selection” you described is exactly that – an assumption. And that assumption is based on what are fundamentally “materialist” premises.

But in any case, unless and until we can actually replicate and control “instinctive behavior” being passed along genetically in a controlled scientific experiment with living organisms, I will continue to view it as a theory.

metalwing's photo
Sat 09/19/09 08:02 PM
As I said, how it came about is a theory. I presented a theory. The actual case may be little beams sent by aliens, mind control by dolphins, intelligent bacteria or multi dimensional invisible beings... or something completely different.:wink:

2 Next