Topic: If Judaism never existed would it be a better world?
no photo
Thu 09/03/09 03:07 PM




The problem is that we are not certain if the neananderthalers or the homo erectus where any better off in mentality then the homo sapiens. I mean perhaps they where as aggressive in nature also, but just didn't succeed because of lack of intelligence.

Before the humans came the world was also eating each other up. One has to survive by killing something even if it is just a simple plant.

This then leads back to what philosophers have been asking for thousands upon thousands of years. Why we must live in such a state to have to end life to stay alive?

That is where religion began to play a role in peoples lives as some believed to have the answers. And because they believed to have the answers many started to believe with them to create a group of believers. Eventually when writing was more effective those beliefs began to have a name. A name that people will know off creating religions.

I of course do not have the answers, but I do have a good time seeing the different view points minglers give such as the one I offer in this thread.

Whatever it is worth (together) we will find a way. drinker


Well, the way I see it is part of the whole problem is that we humans think we are way more special than we actually are. From what I can tell, we aren't even the smartest species currently residing on this planet, not even sure if we come in second. The fact that we take ourselves as some great thing leads us to think that there has to be "something more."

What is it about us that makes us so special as to be singled out. Why doesn't the dog have a place in this afterlife? Is there life any less valuable? Was their creator not as pleased with that creation? What makes the human believe that of all the things on this world or in this universe we are the most precious? Vanity, pure and simple. We have no knowledge of the outer universe, there could be something out there that God is really impressed with. We might not even be in the top 100. This is how religion loses it's perspective, it's idiocentric, meaning it was thought up by idiots.

One also might want to think of the rational of listening to texts and dogmas written by people who didn't even have the concept of running water. Would the advice be the same if written today? I doubt the section on what foods are considered "unclean" would be. Those were written in a time that a pork chop or bacon or even tomatoes would kill you. Hence, there is a lot of things in the texts that would be a little different today.

For those who work with standard religions, ask this why did god stop sending the healers and prophets? Couldn't we really use one of those right about now?


And you have good points that you mention. Would the text be different by those who wrote it then today? Knowing that we have so many solutions solved concerning sanitation, food perservation, medicine, technology etc. etc.

I would think they would be writing something totally different. laugh

The other point you put forth is that we as humans always believe we are more important then other animals that live on this planet. What many don't realize is we are dependent on animals and nature, yet many believe it can be possible without it.

At this rate perhaps this planet will look nothing more then what Mars presents us when satellites take pictures of it or those little land rovers driving over red rocks.

As you have said in the first answer we are a disorganized race and the situation is getting dire. Just look at the world population growth.

You have good points. drinker

no photo
Thu 09/03/09 03:19 PM


Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was attacking. I was simply questioning the question. I still question it, the point of it. Frankly, in my opinion, it hints at anti-semitism. I say that because you chose a religion that is one of the most highly attacked religions in the world. You didn't choose, say, Hinduism, which is practiced by far more people in the world than any other religion AND is far older than Judaism. You chose Judaism. I question that.

As for an answer, I have none, nor do I have an opinion. You are asking a "what if" that simply has no answer. Judaism is, and has been, for 1000's of years. Whether things would be the same, different, better, worse, is unanswerable. It's like asking whether our world would be better if there was no such thing as the sun, or oxygen, or if our bodies didn't bleed. We cannot know how our world and culture would have evolved without these things.


My message was for all Minglers.

There are some historians who can answer it. Then again there are some theologists who can give their opinion also.

It is a matter of perspective and last but not least opinion.

I chose Judaism because it gave birth to Christianity and later the Muslim religion which covers more members then Hinduism as a whole as we know it today.

Hinduism has many followers but not as much as the combined three that I mention above.

It is merely a question that many take offense, but those who have reasoning skills can contemplate and give a answer to.


So, now who is attacking whom? I never accused you of anything, was simply pointing out something you may not have been aware of. I get the point of your question, as it stands above, however you might have worded your original question less offensively.

To correct one point, though. Hinduism is the largest religion in the world. It has more followers than all Western religions combined.

But, I also see now that you are the only one allowed to pose questions. No one else, unless, of course, they answer as you want them to.

RoamingOrator's photo
Thu 09/03/09 03:35 PM



Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was attacking. I was simply questioning the question. I still question it, the point of it. Frankly, in my opinion, it hints at anti-semitism. I say that because you chose a religion that is one of the most highly attacked religions in the world. You didn't choose, say, Hinduism, which is practiced by far more people in the world than any other religion AND is far older than Judaism. You chose Judaism. I question that.

As for an answer, I have none, nor do I have an opinion. You are asking a "what if" that simply has no answer. Judaism is, and has been, for 1000's of years. Whether things would be the same, different, better, worse, is unanswerable. It's like asking whether our world would be better if there was no such thing as the sun, or oxygen, or if our bodies didn't bleed. We cannot know how our world and culture would have evolved without these things.


My message was for all Minglers.

There are some historians who can answer it. Then again there are some theologists who can give their opinion also.

It is a matter of perspective and last but not least opinion.

I chose Judaism because it gave birth to Christianity and later the Muslim religion which covers more members then Hinduism as a whole as we know it today.

Hinduism has many followers but not as much as the combined three that I mention above.

It is merely a question that many take offense, but those who have reasoning skills can contemplate and give a answer to.


So, now who is attacking whom? I never accused you of anything, was simply pointing out something you may not have been aware of. I get the point of your question, as it stands above, however you might have worded your original question less offensively.

To correct one point, though. Hinduism is the largest religion in the world. It has more followers than all Western religions combined.

But, I also see now that you are the only one allowed to pose questions. No one else, unless, of course, they answer as you want them to.


I'm reading this whole thread Suz and well you are the only one on the offensive so far. It was a legitimate question, there was no racism implied until you brought it up. Now if you want to discuss racism, start a thread, people will join, but the question here is did the shift from a multi-god system to a mono-theistic approach lead humans down a path that might not have otherwise been approached. I think that we should probably just ignore the blatant anti-semitism you want to employ and keep the topic civil.

earthytaurus76's photo
Thu 09/03/09 03:44 PM
Edited by earthytaurus76 on Thu 09/03/09 03:44 PM
Im sorry, bout your alll really missing the key thing here.


Blaming starts in the home, so if youre going to do it right..


Start with blaming your parents. *rolls eyes*


Dont you know nothin?

no photo
Thu 09/03/09 03:55 PM



I'm reading this whole thread Suz and well you are the only one on the offensive so far. It was a legitimate question, there was no racism implied until you brought it up. Now if you want to discuss racism, start a thread, people will join, but the question here is did the shift from a multi-god system to a mono-theistic approach lead humans down a path that might not have otherwise been approached. I think that we should probably just ignore the blatant anti-semitism you want to employ and keep the topic civil.


Actually, that is not the question you asked in the beginning. And I never said you were an anti-semite. I said that it hinted, the way it was written, as being anti-semitic. I have not attacked you, called you names, called you ignorant, or anything that you have said to me. I simply questioned the way you worded your question. Seems to me you are the one being defensive. You are going both on the offensive by calling ME names and going on the defensive, which is rather strange. Since many in my family are Jewish and many died in the Holocaust, I find your accusation more than a little offensive.

If there was no anti-semitism implied, fine. I never actually assumed you were anti-semitic. I simply said your question, as it was constructed, COULD be contrued that way.

no photo
Thu 09/03/09 04:19 PM
Edited by smiless on Thu 09/03/09 04:34 PM
flowerforyou



no photo
Thu 09/03/09 04:33 PM
For those who read through this I would like to offer this chart to show that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism outnumbers any other religion on believers.

Always do your research and don't believe everything a person posts on a thread.

Here is one diagram.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


You will see that Christianity and Islam are the largest denominators in the world.

Hindu is the next largest at 900 million.

Judaism is at 14 million or maybe a little more.

These graphs are subject to change all the time throughout the years.

So if you add the total christians, muslim, and jews it will cover over 66% of the worlds population.


Judaism gave birth to Christianity in which Christianity gave birth to Islam through history.

You will see that the three have the same concept or idealogy in teaching, but have changed the story plot as a whole.

My question was intended for those who really wanted to give an opinion on the significance of Judaism. If it had contributed at the time and even now to human society, or if it doesn't make a difference, or it had made it worse.

The goal was to have a healthy debate on what you personal believe to be true.


In the end I see that the question was to sensitive to carry a conversation for. I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone with a question with a multiple answer possiblity.

Have a great day and good luck for your search to happiness. I surely have found mine a long time ago. flowerforyou drinker

Quietman_2009's photo
Thu 09/03/09 04:37 PM
Edited by Quietman_2009 on Thu 09/03/09 04:39 PM
world religions ranked by size



cottonelle's photo
Thu 09/03/09 04:49 PM
mmmmmmm...pie

Ladylid2012's photo
Thu 09/03/09 05:03 PM





For those who work with standard religions, ask this why did god stop sending the healers and prophets? Couldn't we really use one of those right about now?



Maybe no prophets so that we each can figure our lives out on our own, not by listening to the words of others and believing everything we hear just because it has been around a long time... doesn't necessarily mean it works for everyone. Healing gifts are abundant... healers are abundant, I see no shortage of healers. :heart:

tohyup's photo
Thu 09/03/09 05:48 PM
It is my belief that the world would be a better place without Judaism because religion creates hatred, prejudice and creates a life of mythology that no one needs . Of course we all know that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very similar in many areas .
Why does anyone need religion when the laws of the land are sufficient to make peace and order ?.

cottonelle's photo
Thu 09/03/09 06:05 PM
"silence! I KILL YOU!!!" - achmed

Quietman_2009's photo
Thu 09/03/09 06:08 PM

Ladylid2012's photo
Thu 09/03/09 06:12 PM

It is my belief that the world would be a better place without Judaism because religion creates hatred, prejudice and creates a life of mythology that no one needs . Of course we all know that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are very similar in many areas .
Why does anyone need religion when the laws of the land are sufficient to make peace and order ?.


Maybe some need the laws and rules of their religion because they don't believe in the natural laws of the land..and universe. Some need things more tangible...and to be part of a group. It can be a lonely place when you believe something no one else does... flowerforyou

RoamingOrator's photo
Thu 09/03/09 09:54 PM

For those who read through this I would like to offer this chart to show that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism outnumbers any other religion on believers.

Always do your research and don't believe everything a person posts on a thread.

Here is one diagram.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


You will see that Christianity and Islam are the largest denominators in the world.

Hindu is the next largest at 900 million.

Judaism is at 14 million or maybe a little more.

These graphs are subject to change all the time throughout the years.

So if you add the total christians, muslim, and jews it will cover over 66% of the worlds population.


Judaism gave birth to Christianity in which Christianity gave birth to Islam through history.

You will see that the three have the same concept or idealogy in teaching, but have changed the story plot as a whole.

My question was intended for those who really wanted to give an opinion on the significance of Judaism. If it had contributed at the time and even now to human society, or if it doesn't make a difference, or it had made it worse.

The goal was to have a healthy debate on what you personal believe to be true.


In the end I see that the question was to sensitive to carry a conversation for. I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone with a question with a multiple answer possiblity.

Have a great day and good luck for your search to happiness. I surely have found mine a long time ago. flowerforyou drinker


The thing is, it insults me that you feel the need to aplogize for asking a critical question. I know that I sometimes get riled unnecessarily over these things, but I truly hate it when the language police come in and say "this might offend someone."

It is because I was taught that when you ask a question that is considered offensive, you are probably hitting on a subject that needs further analysis. If no one is offened by your question, there also will be no debate, we can't all agree and still get anything really discussed.


Now then, that being said. Just because I back a side does not mean that is my belief. I would argue for the use of flaming babies to stop the spread of puppy migration if everyone else was arguing against it, and for some reason imagine most would. I will always play devil's advocate, because he needs the help, no one is on his side. I will always stand up for the free use of language, for when subjects are considered taboo, then we might as well give up the right of a free press and speech, because it won't be too far behind.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Fri 09/04/09 01:01 AM
Edited by Milesoftheusa on Fri 09/04/09 01:06 AM
The world is better off with the jews which in todays world is a misnomer because they are of 12 tribes . Some know thier heritage mainly the Levites who did the Temple duties.

jews and Islam came from Abraham and Ishmael is Abrahams son through Hagar.And Isaac through Sarah Ahrahoms Wife of his Youth.

The 2 women at one point could not get along and Sarah Abrahams wife said get rid of them. Hagar and Ishmael.

Isaac sons became the jews and Ishmael became the Arabs.

This started a rivalry right from the start. This is why the Arabs claim Jerusalem is thiers and so do the Jews.

The 1st born son got the greater Blessing in most cases than the others.

aThe Arabs contend and have a good reason for being the 1st Born of Abraham because Ishmael was but because of Sarah Abraham sent them off into the desert.


Then Isaac got the Blessing from Abraham. The reason for this is Isaac is the son of promice.

Yahweh had promiced Abraham a son but when sarah was told she laughed she could not bear children anymore.

When after so long Sarah told Abraham to take Hagar not as a wife but sort of i forgot the word they use.

She bore a son Ishmael.

Now Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael into the Desert this was very degrading to them especially Isaac as he was expecting the Blessing.

Now what happened thier is unclear as Abraham was required to give quite a bit of his wealth to Isaac when he sent him away and it does not seem that he did.

400 years later is when the Israelites came out of edgept and wandered 40 years.

Now the arabs and jews did not have a lot of problem each other until around 665ad. That may seem strange but history proves this out.

It was when supposedly Mohammad was taken to heaven at the Dome of the rock all heck broke loose. The Arabs wanted Jerusalem .and the Israelites scattered or be killed.

During the destruction of the temple when ceasar was slaughtering Jews the ones who got away quickly went south towards eygpt and east towards Babylon and stayed thier untill Jerusalem was Taken back by the Arabs. It was rome and the Arabs who were fighting for 500 + years over Jerusalem.

The Israelites apperetly lived in Iraq and Babylon for quite sometime. They fled thier because thier was a assembly in Babylon and the Romans and the Persians had a treaty that roman soldiers would not cros i believ but not sure but not sure the Tigris River. So in Romans destruction the Israelites were welcome in Persia because the kings thier called the Israelites Yahweh's Wisdom and had great respect for them. It is believed when the Magi Persian Priest traveled to Israel to give gifts that they believed Mithra the son of Zoraster had come to them. They had great respect at that time for the Iseralites.

So this fight between the Jews and Arabs all stems from Abraham accepting Hagar as a gift from Sarah to have a heir and they both have a good point about who was the 1st born. But the Israelites were given the promice land 440+ years from Abraham sometime because he is the son of the Promice from Yahweh.

This is just like Yahshua was the son of promice from Yahweh. Both Mary and Sarah should not of got pregnant but Yahweh made it happen His Blessing to the people. The chosen people.


It gets pretty deep as the Torah bbasically dictated in the laws and sacrafices what and how all this was going to take place just as the Torah believe it or not has way more prophecy in it about what is happening and is going to happen right now that the whole rest of the bible. People do not want to believe this for one reason all the sacraficing that was going on is pure prophecy and no one reads it and studies it at all. So Yahshua;s prophecy of watch or his coming will be as a thief in the night is very true.

So yes the Israelites(Jews) being given the law is what has shaped people. Alot of evil people in High Places as it says are the ones who orders masacres just like Islam leaders say hey I need a suicide bomber to kill these people and they do it. a good soldier I guess. Who knows.

But the law was given to keep the leaders in check. They had more to answer for than the people. Moses did not get to enter the promice land just for striking a rock when he was told not to. He was getting a bigger head like he made the water spring out of the rock and not Yahweh.

now we have power hungry people and now slavery is debt. Wealth is rulership of a kingdom. This is all over the world the elite kill off who disagrees with them and the people have to do as told or they may die or they believe it is thier duty.

It is not the Jews fault. How many times have you seen them attack without being forced to?

Yahshua was a Jew they rejected him and he did none any harm at all yet the same ones who killed him is from the same tribe of the Jews as him and as he died his famous words came out because of his love for the jews " Father forgive them for they know now what they do"

Quite a last statement but would they of killed him if they knew he was who he said he was?


Blessings of Shalom and May Yahweh give us Peace in our Hearts in the Days to come...Miles

no photo
Fri 09/04/09 05:41 AM


For those who read through this I would like to offer this chart to show that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism outnumbers any other religion on believers.

Always do your research and don't believe everything a person posts on a thread.

Here is one diagram.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


You will see that Christianity and Islam are the largest denominators in the world.

Hindu is the next largest at 900 million.

Judaism is at 14 million or maybe a little more.

These graphs are subject to change all the time throughout the years.

So if you add the total christians, muslim, and jews it will cover over 66% of the worlds population.


Judaism gave birth to Christianity in which Christianity gave birth to Islam through history.

You will see that the three have the same concept or idealogy in teaching, but have changed the story plot as a whole.

My question was intended for those who really wanted to give an opinion on the significance of Judaism. If it had contributed at the time and even now to human society, or if it doesn't make a difference, or it had made it worse.

The goal was to have a healthy debate on what you personal believe to be true.


In the end I see that the question was to sensitive to carry a conversation for. I apologize sincerely if I have offended anyone with a question with a multiple answer possiblity.

Have a great day and good luck for your search to happiness. I surely have found mine a long time ago. flowerforyou drinker


The thing is, it insults me that you feel the need to aplogize for asking a critical question. I know that I sometimes get riled unnecessarily over these things, but I truly hate it when the language police come in and say "this might offend someone."

It is because I was taught that when you ask a question that is considered offensive, you are probably hitting on a subject that needs further analysis. If no one is offened by your question, there also will be no debate, we can't all agree and still get anything really discussed.


Now then, that being said. Just because I back a side does not mean that is my belief. I would argue for the use of flaming babies to stop the spread of puppy migration if everyone else was arguing against it, and for some reason imagine most would. I will always play devil's advocate, because he needs the help, no one is on his side. I will always stand up for the free use of language, for when subjects are considered taboo, then we might as well give up the right of a free press and speech, because it won't be too far behind.


It looks like I am losing ground either way.laugh

I know I hit a spot by asking a question in a way that both believers and non believers can give opinion to.

What is saddening is that when it comes personal instead of a healthy debate of further understanding the history and the current situation of the subject.

I don't expect to find deep answers on a dating site. laugh

Nevertheless when it comes to having threat emails and called names, I would rather take such discussion to people that have common courtesy to debate in a healthy manner.

I do appreciate your input. It is very informative and will consider some of the information within my friends circle who can carry great conversation and come to conclusions even if we disagree.


no photo
Fri 09/04/09 05:42 AM

The world is better off with the jews which in todays world is a misnomer because they are of 12 tribes . Some know thier heritage mainly the Levites who did the Temple duties.

jews and Islam came from Abraham and Ishmael is Abrahams son through Hagar.And Isaac through Sarah Ahrahoms Wife of his Youth.

The 2 women at one point could not get along and Sarah Abrahams wife said get rid of them. Hagar and Ishmael.

Isaac sons became the jews and Ishmael became the Arabs.

This started a rivalry right from the start. This is why the Arabs claim Jerusalem is thiers and so do the Jews.

The 1st born son got the greater Blessing in most cases than the others.

aThe Arabs contend and have a good reason for being the 1st Born of Abraham because Ishmael was but because of Sarah Abraham sent them off into the desert.


Then Isaac got the Blessing from Abraham. The reason for this is Isaac is the son of promice.

Yahweh had promiced Abraham a son but when sarah was told she laughed she could not bear children anymore.

When after so long Sarah told Abraham to take Hagar not as a wife but sort of i forgot the word they use.

She bore a son Ishmael.

Now Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael into the Desert this was very degrading to them especially Isaac as he was expecting the Blessing.

Now what happened thier is unclear as Abraham was required to give quite a bit of his wealth to Isaac when he sent him away and it does not seem that he did.

400 years later is when the Israelites came out of edgept and wandered 40 years.

Now the arabs and jews did not have a lot of problem each other until around 665ad. That may seem strange but history proves this out.

It was when supposedly Mohammad was taken to heaven at the Dome of the rock all heck broke loose. The Arabs wanted Jerusalem .and the Israelites scattered or be killed.

During the destruction of the temple when ceasar was slaughtering Jews the ones who got away quickly went south towards eygpt and east towards Babylon and stayed thier untill Jerusalem was Taken back by the Arabs. It was rome and the Arabs who were fighting for 500 + years over Jerusalem.

The Israelites apperetly lived in Iraq and Babylon for quite sometime. They fled thier because thier was a assembly in Babylon and the Romans and the Persians had a treaty that roman soldiers would not cros i believ but not sure but not sure the Tigris River. So in Romans destruction the Israelites were welcome in Persia because the kings thier called the Israelites Yahweh's Wisdom and had great respect for them. It is believed when the Magi Persian Priest traveled to Israel to give gifts that they believed Mithra the son of Zoraster had come to them. They had great respect at that time for the Iseralites.

So this fight between the Jews and Arabs all stems from Abraham accepting Hagar as a gift from Sarah to have a heir and they both have a good point about who was the 1st born. But the Israelites were given the promice land 440+ years from Abraham sometime because he is the son of the Promice from Yahweh.

This is just like Yahshua was the son of promice from Yahweh. Both Mary and Sarah should not of got pregnant but Yahweh made it happen His Blessing to the people. The chosen people.


It gets pretty deep as the Torah bbasically dictated in the laws and sacrafices what and how all this was going to take place just as the Torah believe it or not has way more prophecy in it about what is happening and is going to happen right now that the whole rest of the bible. People do not want to believe this for one reason all the sacraficing that was going on is pure prophecy and no one reads it and studies it at all. So Yahshua;s prophecy of watch or his coming will be as a thief in the night is very true.

So yes the Israelites(Jews) being given the law is what has shaped people. Alot of evil people in High Places as it says are the ones who orders masacres just like Islam leaders say hey I need a suicide bomber to kill these people and they do it. a good soldier I guess. Who knows.

But the law was given to keep the leaders in check. They had more to answer for than the people. Moses did not get to enter the promice land just for striking a rock when he was told not to. He was getting a bigger head like he made the water spring out of the rock and not Yahweh.

now we have power hungry people and now slavery is debt. Wealth is rulership of a kingdom. This is all over the world the elite kill off who disagrees with them and the people have to do as told or they may die or they believe it is thier duty.

It is not the Jews fault. How many times have you seen them attack without being forced to?

Yahshua was a Jew they rejected him and he did none any harm at all yet the same ones who killed him is from the same tribe of the Jews as him and as he died his famous words came out because of his love for the jews " Father forgive them for they know now what they do"

Quite a last statement but would they of killed him if they knew he was who he said he was?


Blessings of Shalom and May Yahweh give us Peace in our Hearts in the Days to come...Miles


Very interesting history analysis. Thank you for taking the time to share this with us. drinker

Milesoftheusa's photo
Fri 09/04/09 05:47 AM
Edited by Milesoftheusa on Fri 09/04/09 05:57 AM
flowers drinks waving drinker YW Smiles Shalom

RoamingOrator's photo
Fri 09/04/09 04:48 PM




It looks like I am losing ground either way.laugh

I know I hit a spot by asking a question in a way that both believers and non believers can give opinion to.

What is saddening is that when it comes personal instead of a healthy debate of further understanding the history and the current situation of the subject.

I don't expect to find deep answers on a dating site. laugh

Nevertheless when it comes to having threat emails and called names, I would rather take such discussion to people that have common courtesy to debate in a healthy manner.

I do appreciate your input. It is very informative and will consider some of the information within my friends circle who can carry great conversation and come to conclusions even if we disagree.





I wish even a third of the people on here were just half as thoughtful and polite as you. It saddens me to hear you have received hateful and threatening remarks on a personal level. I hope that anything I might have added to the discussion did not invoke such a reprehensible act.

I'll also add, I don't know if anything I have ever said was worthy of discussion amongst intellectuals. But thank you for the compliment.