Excellent quotes. Even though I disagree with those men on a lot of things, they are accurate in this case. :)

Ok, practice what you preach. Look the poor parents of a little girl with cancer straight in the eyes and tell them "You haven't earned this, you greedy socialists."

Do it as many times as it takes 'til they 'get it'.





-Kerry O.

Sure... Put that out there.

47 million without... 250 million with...

Look your grandchild in the eye and explain why they can't have meat and potatoes cause they got to work of your debt.

Well, I'll probably tell them how 'profitable' the war in Iraq was, how we were literally sending pallets of money for building hospitals that got blown up as soon as they were built to try to buy 'hearts and minds' of people whose oil we craved desperately.

Charity begins at home, right?

-Kerry O.

I am friends with a couple that lost their 4 year son to cancer. I can't imagine how awful they would have felt if they hadn't had insurance.

War in Iraq been going on for some time...

Did not place the deficit were it is now... Current proposals did that there fore you would be spinning a tale to your grandkids...

spin is what?

Ronald Reagan tripled the national debt from 900 billion to 2.7 trillion. Even his running mate George the Elder saw what was going on and called it 'voodoo economics' and had the guts to raise taxes instead of letting the deficit get totally out of control. In 8 years, Clinton added 1 trillion to the national debt. His predessor, GWB, added nearly 5 trillion to the debt.

Who in the list above was known for advocating for all those yucky social programs that you conservatives love to hate? Who in that list was conservative and what are their numbers.

Our legacy was that of the first country to land a man on the moon, yet we can't seem to find a way to do that which Canada and many other nations _have_ done? Yet the U.S. is the biggest debtor nation in the world, bar none.

Spin that.

-Kerry O.

Took Clinton 8 years to go 1 trillion...

As it has taken Obama 6 months to equal that... What will it be like in 4 years let alone 8?

Can't spin that... It has me spinning.

Took Clinton 8 years to go 1 trillion...

As it has taken Obama 6 months to equal that... What will it be like in 4 years let alone 8?

Can't spin that... It has me spinning.




That's because you're a linear thinker who doesn't understand inertia. Just as Clinton did when he went against all the 'conventional wisdom' on how higher taxes always, always, always wreck economies, sometimes that which seems counter-intuitive slowly drags that inertia to a stop and allows one to reverse a trend. The economy went on to its longest peacetime expansion in history and handed Clinton's predecessor at least a budget surplus.

Obama inherited a HUGE deficit and what's arguably called the worst recession since the Great Depression, NOT a surplus. Like FDR, he's probably going to have to spend a lot of money for some period of time to reverse the trend.

Therein lies the difference.

Most Europeans will tell you that even though they pay high taxes, they feel like they actually get something for them. Americans on the other hand are always carping about how they are being ripped off. Could it be because we really DON'T get anything for our money because people like GWB were selling us visions of hegemonic domination that were never sustainable in the first place? And that a public option for healthcare might just be the first thing a loooong time that that WILL be a return on a investment for the common person, if only we don't let the naysayers mislead us with propaganda?

Like Edward R. Murrow quoting Shakespeare, I often wonder:

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves."

-Kerry O.

That's because you're a linear thinker who doesn't understand inertia. Just as Clinton did when he went against all the 'conventional wisdom' on how higher taxes always, always, always wreck economies, sometimes that which seems counter-intuitive slowly drags that inertia to a stop and allows one to reverse a trend. The economy went on to its longest peacetime expansion in history and handed Clinton's predecessor at least a budget surplus.

Obama inherited a HUGE deficit and what's arguably called the worst recession since the Great Depression, NOT a surplus. Like FDR, he's probably going to have to spend a lot of money for some period of time to reverse the trend.

Therein lies the difference.

Most Europeans will tell you that even though they pay high taxes, they feel like they actually get something for them. Americans on the other hand are always carping about how they are being ripped off. Could it be because we really DON'T get anything for our money because people like GWB were selling us visions of hegemonic domination that were never sustainable in the first place? And that a public option for healthcare might just be the first thing a loooong time that that WILL be a return on a investment for the common person, if only we don't let the naysayers mislead us with propaganda?

Like Edward R. Murrow quoting Shakespeare, I often wonder:

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves."

-Kerry O.






Hey, Kerry O, good to see you!!

That's because you're a linear thinker who doesn't understand inertia. Just as Clinton did when he went against all the 'conventional wisdom' on how higher taxes always, always, always wreck economies, sometimes that which seems counter-intuitive slowly drags that inertia to a stop and allows one to reverse a trend. The economy went on to its longest peacetime expansion in history and handed Clinton's predecessor at least a budget surplus.

Obama inherited a HUGE deficit and what's arguably called the worst recession since the Great Depression, NOT a surplus. Like FDR, he's probably going to have to spend a lot of money for some period of time to reverse the trend.

Therein lies the difference.

Most Europeans will tell you that even though they pay high taxes, they feel like they actually get something for them. Americans on the other hand are always carping about how they are being ripped off. Could it be because we really DON'T get anything for our money because people like GWB were selling us visions of hegemonic domination that were never sustainable in the first place? And that a public option for healthcare might just be the first thing a loooong time that that WILL be a return on a investment for the common person, if only we don't let the naysayers mislead us with propaganda?

Like Edward R. Murrow quoting Shakespeare, I often wonder:

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves."

-Kerry O.



No where near a straight line thinker... and I understand the reality...

You have simply stated the propaganda (nearly word for word) of the 'get it at all costs' side.

Clinton did not have business connections delibrately screwing with the market...

Can you look at the things happening in the market and honestly say that it has not been manuiplated in a most foul manner in the last year...

I wish i lived in your world my friend. I wish we could just make things appear out of thin air, but we can't. If they don't work, someone else has to.

If we want everyone to win, which means, best healthcare for the least amount of money, we must target effeciency.

This is the failure of nearly every government run program out there. Inefficiency, CAUSES high costs, and huge burdens.

"The answer to this, is help your neighbor. The disaster to this, is have other people help your neighbor for you (in other words, our government). All seems to be a way to get, or give something we haven't earned."

I urge you to read the above statement. You appearently did not understand.

It is ok to think with your brain as well as your heart...

Indeed you are correct sir...

Forget it Adventure.

Some people don't have the capacity to to see ahead more than a few weeks. They just preach what they are told.

Ah! So perhaps we need an organization like General Motors to run our healthcare system? Or Chrysler? How about Bear-Stearns or Lehman Bros? No? Why not that CEO who spent 35 Large on a 'commode on legs'?

I wish you lived in my world of engineering, too. You'd see that there's more to problems than just rhetoric devoid of facts. Some problems only seem impossible, but when people get out of the way, they get solved-- but sometimes some vested interests get rendered obsolete in the solving.

You invoked the 'Good Neighbor' argument? Well, where is one of the richest entities in the whole world doing about the healthcare problem? The Catholic Church either can't or won't solve the problem. What's up with that?

And efficiency? From someone who has been through the system, I can't tell you the number of times I had to battle with what is now the status quo. A week before Memorial Day in '04, I briefly coded in an ambulance. In the grand scheme of things, having to wait 6 months and having the wrong insurance company billed $1000 for a 10 minute trip through the ER on my way to neuro ICU may not be a big deal, but it took the best part of a year to get resolved and a lot of frayed nerves.

I've been there. Have you?


-Kerry O.

Yanno, I don't care if you want to argue about this stuff endlessly, but if you're going to keep going with the left-handed personal attacks, maybe you should take it to email. You've violated the Terms of Use. Shouting people down isn't debate and it won't make the healthcare system more efficient.


-Kerry O.

No where near a straight line thinker... and I understand the reality...

You have simply stated the propaganda (nearly word for word) of the 'get it at all costs' side.

Clinton did not have business connections delibrately screwing with the market...

Can you look at the things happening in the market and honestly say that it has not been manuiplated in a most foul manner in the last year...




Oh please. The 'business connections deliberately screwing with the market' _were_ GWB's core constituencies.

I suspect the Blue Dog Democrats who are going to shoot most of what gets floated down are also taking a lot of loot from the vested interests, too, but sooner them than people like Dick Cheney. At least some incremental progress may be made instead of it being Pigs 10, People 0.

-Kerry O.

Hey, Kerry O, good to see you!!


Hiya Boo. It was getting boring and you know how connected I am with this particular issue. I doubt I'll make a difference, but I hate hearing 'it can't be done'. The Internet itself proves that with a little cooperation and deferred payoffs, truly spectacular goals can be accomplished.

-Kerry O.

Personal sir... aye like stating that a memeber is a linear thinker in such a way as to imply insult...

Is that what you was gettin at?

Pot and kettle if ya ask me.

Ya, I am tired of hearing WE CAN'T on a lot of things. Good to see you back.