... "For Whom the Bell Tolls", and it's given me an interesting view of women from different times/cultures. For those who don't know, it's set in Spain in the 30's.

Anyway, so the girl, Maria, is always told to go away while others are talking and she's always being treated like a child, but she seems to enjoy it... she acts as though it's a compliment, or at least that it's proper. She also always says she's ugly because her hair isn't long (she was a prisoner for a while and had her head shaved), but that she'll be pretty again when it grows out.

My question here is, when did women begin to feel badly treated? When did we decide that being treated like a child wasn't proper and right? I'm VERY curious about this?

you can read?? j/k

I hope so, considering I'm headed to grad school to teach Literature in the fall.

that would be a plus I imagine

These famous words by John Donne were not originally written as a poem - the passage is taken from the 1624 Meditation 17, from Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions and is prose. The words of the original passage are as follows:

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.

How far in the '30's? Like 1930 or 1830? I know that once women had a desire to do something and were told "no", they felt they weren't treated right. I'm no history major, but I know this happened before 1900. *Shrugs* I'll just stick with English.

Women always knew if they were being treated badly. They had just been conditioned to accept the treatment they were receiving.. Society has made women the weaker sex for eons, it's only been since the sexual revolution in the 70's things started to change. We have it good here.. many women in other countries are still treated terribly.

Hey Cy! Yeah, that poem is written into the opening page of the book, and given proper credit.

My copy is a first edition my grandmother gave me for my birthday. It belonged to my great grandmother. It means a LOT to me.

1930's. I love history, but yeah, my passion is literature.

Lady, Maybe it's a cultural thing, cuz I know American women weren't OK with that at that time.

The second you are feeling treated badly, that is when it happens. Why do we let this happen to us?

That's awesome sweetheart.What a beautiful & sentimental treasure indeed.Godspeed!Cy

I think that through out history women, some women stood there ground and demanded what they deserved...respect, love, equality....perhaps more subtly in days gone by but if you read enough there are stories of strong, independent women dating into the ages.... I also think that in modern times the 50's 60's and early 70's brought huge changes for women...still work needs to done. Men also changed, they began to see us as valuables instead of possessions (hey guys, some not all, this is hard with out the dreaded generalizations) Smart people always valued their partners...

Best to you as you start and finish! grad school. Beautiful, secure and smart - you are a force to be reckoned with!!!! YEA!!

It is fiction.

lil_bit, I agree to a point. I think that if someone is being treated badly, even if they feel it's OK, it's still NOT OK. I was convinced by my stepfather my entire childhood that I was useless and worthless, and I was OK with that because I thought it was right. My attitude didn't MAKE it right.

Cy, yes... I cried when I opened it and read my great-grandmother's name. It's been in my family since it was brand new, and as far as I'm concerned, it'll stay here forever.

seamac, thank you! I'll need it. I'm starting to get the scareds. I mean, ya know, it's GRAD SCHOOL. I just hope I can keep up!

And yeah, there are stories of strong women through history. I guess my point was I couldn't understand at ALL the attitude of this girl... especially when there is another female character who is a leader of a revolutionary army... so weird.

newark, thank-you. I know it's fiction.

You will do and be fine, ask for help when/if you need it, teachers and profs are there for you. Being scared is normal and good, gets the adrenaline flowing which, used correctly can help you FOCUS and stay awake cramming for exams....not LOL.

Actually as some have said women always knew that they were not treated on the same level as men were. Until 1920 when it was put into law that women could actually Vote did they start standing up for themselves. Once that Women seen that their voices were being heard then it went from there.

You will do fine in Grad School. I am sure you have your angels smoothing the way where need be.