If the UN wants the world to be serious about the issue then go to the general assembly and pass a binding resolution with a sanctions mechanism.

The problem is, they aren't serious. Thats why its non binding, and that is why the fundamentalists laugh at them.

Sadly I think you are absolutely correct. Of course Quiet has a good point I had not thought of, but still this might even a bigger nut to crack than Apartied, because of the religious aspect of it.

I have no expecations in my life time, so if this is a small step it's a teeny tiny one compared to the backlash from the church if it ever was binding, and binding is the only worth while option to me. If I said that right...

Too be totally honest Boo, the UN is afraid of the fundamentalists. They have missions and troops scattered throughout the world, and if it were perceived to be forcing gay rights on them, they would have huge red bullseyes on their chests.

But if you spit in the face of a well meant gesture, won't that put things back even more? If indignation is how we treat those that are kind to us, who's going to want to help? It's one thing to push a more conservative motion to the next level, but it's another to disregard a step completely.

who is spitting in the face of it? they are only saying it's a small gesture that may not even go anywhere. they are being realistic

i'm not sure that it IS a well-meant gesture. i'm thinking it's...more placatory than anything else. it's akin to patting the little kiddo on the head and saying "yes, honey, you played very well in that concert," while wincing at the memory of the sound. it's patronizing.

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the people in my break-room the other day were talking about the "morality" of homosexuality the other day (and no, they weren't supposed to be). they were saying how they couldn't understand why anyone would make such a horrible choice, and then they all agreed that it WAS a choice. i, of course, have a very big mouth and am known for opening it. i asked how they could ever think such a thing was a choice...why someone WOULD pick a life-decision that leads to a life-time of derision from people like them. i then pointed out that science has shown that a gay man's brain is formed differently and suggested they pick a different topic for a public breakroom.

um, at which point two of the ladies said, and yes...this is sadly real..."don't give us your 'science'. i don't believe in science...i want to know what the bible says..."

how the heck do you not "believe" in science?

I understand what you are saying.

It seems to me that the UN is playing both sides of the fence. Yes they are passing a resolution in support of gay rights, but they are also placating the fundamentalists by it being non binding. If you think that is a good thing, its your prerogative.

those are the kinds of people that i would look em right in the eye and ask for proof of god's existence......then pull out a pen or paper or something and say here's my proof of science wheres your proof of god....

They don't want to believe that being gay is not a choice because it flies in the face of religion as being fact. They would rather believe in a lie (that being gay is a choice) than believe that it is possible that homosexuality is in fact not a choice as their precious bible would have them believe...

Who would have the bullseyes, the troops the missionaries. I guess both huh? Ugh. Who isn't afraid of fudementalists though. Even where I live I wouldn't advertise that I was gay. My neighbors know but I would not advertise it when just down the road a bit is a man that carries signs with some pretty ugly things said on them.

Very sad situation, I would not want to be responsible for people's deaths trying to stand up for me.

Unfortunately this is exactly what I think it is. Of course I would love to think otherwise, but we went through a similar thing with Clinton who gave us don't ask don't tell, which to me was a disaster and an insult. The Clinton's didn't really care about the issue. Sure I bet they had gay friends as I do, but even my straight friends don't go out of they way to make things happen faster either. Not that I blame them really, it's exhausting dealing with ignorance and the control of the church.

With don't ask don't tell, You try not talking about your life in public, and see how easy it is to do, especially if you tend to be honest.

It's not that we don't appreciate the gesture, but after so many years gestures don't really mean a whole lot.

I thank you Lulu and people like you with the courage to speak out when you hear remarks like that. The only thing that keeps ignorance alive is silence and more ignorance.

I always assumed that I chose being gay. I was attracted to men but they turned out to be abusive (the ones I unfortunately came in contact with, so when introduced to the gay community I found an alternative I didn't know I had. But very shortly after I also found out my twin was gay. So could be that I just didn't recognize my own homosexuality as many others did.

My twin could not handle the verbal abuse by society and stayed straight though never to this day felt complete. I on the other hand would expect no less than the same respect afforded everyone else in society, I went with what was practical for me and my heart. Whether I was born gay or chose it, it's my life and no one is responsible for my well being and happiness than I.

If we are born Gay the church would have to then believe that God made us the way we are.. That would fly in the face of what they want people to believe. Would you then question all of religion if gays are born gay? You bet! And the church wouldn't last long if we all questioned it's dogma would it?

Anyway, as much as I would like to believe otherwise I do not think Obama is the one to make any significant changes. He has much to accomplish and needs the church to accomplish other things. Gay will never be as important as those other things.

I have pushed aside what I would have liked with every president, thinking oh well there are more important things right now, so we should just wait for a better time. Well as we can see there is never a better time. Oops getting a bit long winded again...

Yes, exactly, I don't see anyone spitting here either, just being realistic.

What is reality? Who's perception counts? What person would choose to be rediculed, dumped on, pushed away by family, denied basic human rights? Descrimination. What person? To use the bible against anyone is an abomination.

When people use the bible to try and make a point it fails. People tend to forget that same sex anything is mentioned VERY RARELY in the bible. BUT.....love... tolerance...judgement...understanding...charity...and having a truthful heart is mentioned so many times...many more times than being gay (which by the way, isnt even there). Denying ones own truth and happiness is wrong according to the bible.

Why is it okay to hate gays, but not porn? Porn is wrong in the bible. Lying is wrong in the bible. Judging is wrong in the bible. The seven deadly sins? Is being gay there? The ten commandments...is being gay there? Drunkiness is there. Overeating..is there. Abortion...is there.

I wonder how many people that hate on gays eat pork? Get drunk. Have sex before marriage. My money is on "a lot".

I know gay people. One in particular.....this one was so gay at a tender age. The signs were in our faces....being ignorant...hindsight....Man, information would have been nice back then.

They overturned porn...abortion...why not being gay?



Kat

yes...the world is full of hypocrites. people will use the Bible or constitution or whatever to warp or hide behind. i have little respect for these people. people want to pick and chose what suits their purposes and forget the rest. but that is life (sadly)

people will always look for someone to blame or dislike for anything. which is something i have a hard time understanding myself. we have the right to believe as we want but it is easy to use things to our argument....they tend to quiet down when you point out the things they are forgetting