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Topic: States declaring and reaffirming their sovereignty
Dragoness's photo
Wed 02/25/09 09:06 PM
Edited by Dragoness on Wed 02/25/09 09:07 PM





Umm....the states were supposed to hold the power over the federal government in the first place...

What's causing the states to do this is the simple fact that the federal government is dictating THEIR plans to them. So, power to the majority i guess...

The federal government has been unconstitutional. The federal government is being unconstitutional. The states are tired of it. So they are now questioning their authority and pushing back. The STATES are sending the message; " we will not be dictated anymore, we have rights" to the federal government. That, is in no way, being unconstitutional. In fact, the states are using power that our forefathers gave them. Isn't it neat Dragoness? They are finally learningflowerforyou


Learning what? The states already have their own government which they control.

The small issues that are coming up on these proposals of hypocrisy are the second amendment (which the half of America that do not want to carry weapons do not want to be shot by a crazy second amendmenter) so certain restrictions on the second amendment should stand to represent the part of America that feels the way I mentioned. The second issue is the mandates handed down to the states that are unfunded like SCHIPP, this should be a mandate, it is for the children of this country in every state.

And as for the stimulus package which I know is a major issue. It was needed. All the experts told everyone that they needed to flood the country with money to stimulate the economy. They made the attempt and put one through as fast as they could. It is what the financial experts say is needed. Do the individual states not want to follow the financial experts? That would be to their own detriment and make the people of their state suffer more than necessary just to make a mute point of some kind.

You did not take my bet I see.


Ok, education time. You think America is a democracy don't you?

Its not, nor was it ever intended that way. A democracy is a mob rule. If you want one, leave, please, before you encourage the destruction of our country.

Our country was founded as a Republic. This means elected officials are meant to stand for us, and do whats best for us. Government in every case was meant to be small, and noninterventive. There are of course times where SOME intervention is needed. For a republic to work, it must strictly adhere to a constitution. This keeps the republic in check. The republic is supposed to keep the people in check, and vice versa.

If the republic overrides their constitution, the people have no one to protect them but themselves.

This is where our bill of rights come in.

Amendment 1 - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This removes the government from being able to totally manipulate the population.

Amendment 2 - A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This is the guardian of all other rights. The Right to bear arms is a last resort against tryanny. When push comes to shove the people have THE RIGHT to abolish our government and start anew.

This was mentioned in our declaration of independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — :tongue: That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.:tongue: Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

This is our binding contract. The fabric of our entire country. Be careful before you suggest it be rewritten or ignored.

Ok, enough for now about the constitution.

Now the stimuus package... Guess what. Its a scam! "They" said we need to flood the economy with money. That's not true at all. Any educated economist would tell you that.

What they MEANT was, we need to flood the economy with debt. Yes, thats right. This money won't come from taxes, or spending cuts, instead it will be BORROWED, and spent. All other information is irrelivant if you do your homework on how the economy works. Doesn't matter how its spent, just that it gets deposited and laned out again. Google the Fractional Reserve System. This explains how a little debt can be turned into a lot of debt, which, is a good thing for the short run.

Problem with the economy is that we need infinitely increasing debt, and it needs to grow exponetially at a constant rate. When it doesn't grow fast enough, we have "bubble bursts" like the housing market, followed by a recession. What this means is that our entire economy since 1913, is only temporary, because there will come a day when we simply can't afford the principal + interest payments when we can only use the principal to make the payments.

Funny thing is it states bluntly in our constitution that the money issuing power resides with congress. Not a private bank. This makes the Federal Reserve illegal according to our constitution. It's also illegal to have paper money of any sort. Nifty huh? You know what's interesting. The Great Depression, and this depression, wouldn't exist with our government just read and followed the constitution.

This brings us back to the constitution descussion. States ust maintain a soveriegnty, and they are in fact building militias. Because someday we will have a revolution. The sooner it happens the less bloody it will be. If the states get tehir message across now, other people wont need the right to bear arms to take washington d.c. down by force. People wouldn't have to die.

See why this is all important. Our constitution protects us from the u.s. government. Read it, it's probably one of the most socially brilliant documents written.


Okay, that was all great and all. I already knew it anyway but thanks for the effort.

None of which makes the movement not a hypocrisy. It is a hypocrisy to state that the states demands not met equal a nullification of the constitution when they are supposedly following the constitution in the first place. Unless that is a catch 22 in the constitution that needs to be worked on.

Like I have said before it really is no personal problem for me that a state secede and become it's own little nation. The residence will no longer be citizens of this country, they will be in a small little nation surrounded by the US, hopefully having something the US needs to trade with. And with their little small militia army they had better hope that no opportunistic terrorist forces decide to take over, like the white supremacists. I don't think it would be a great thing for the residents and I hope the residents get warning so they can vacate said state before the secession happens if they do not wish to lose their US citizenship or get caught in a civil war or a terrorist state in their home town.

It is actually stupidity if you read up on it. But the racists love it I am sure because it goes against the black president, ya know?


Ok, read up on it then. Because from what i understand declaring soveriegnty does not mean they are saying they wont abide by the constitution. What they are saying is that the federal government needs to abide by it, or they will call them out on it. It does not say anything about succeeding. I could be mistaken.

I fail, completely to see where racism is on this as well. They call that argument a "Red Herring" in critical thinking.

I still stand behind full and support the states. I know the states are within their rights. I know they are trying to hold the Federal Government accountible for once. I owe them all a drink. This is a good first step to the "change" Obama was talking about during the campaign....

States being able to override the federal government is just about the best thing that could happen right now.

Go RACISTS!!!laugh laugh flowerforyou


No red herring here, maybe on the info you have been getting.

I said bet me that the racists who do not want a black man in office are not behind this movement. Bet me.

As for the threat of nullifying the constitution means just that, Nullification of the Constitution. So if you look that up it means that the constitution will no longer be in effect. What does it mean if the contitution is no longer in effect in one state?

The only possible follow throughs for the threat of these proposals is secession or civil war. How else can they carry out the threat of nullification of the constitution? I guess they could claim the constitution is null and void and then continue on business as usual but what a waste of time that would be right?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/25/09 09:26 PM
flowerforyou Do you even know what a red herring is??? It's not a smelly fish either....:wink:

It's an argument that has nothing to do with the story. Politicians are famous for these sorts of things. Even if racists wrote the plan, the idea of forcing the federal government to adhere to the constitution is smart, and good for our republic. This is important for our futures so we don't see more "G.W.'s" in office. Get me?


abiding by Constitution = no G.W.'s

Racism doesn't come into play. Therefore i support this idea. And you should too. Got some reading todo, get back to you tomorrow...flowerforyou

Drivinmenutz's photo
Wed 02/25/09 09:57 PM
This might help:

"The various sovereignty measures moving through state legislatures are designed to reassert state authority through a rollback of federal authority under the powers enumerated in the Constitution, with the states assuming the governance of the non-enumerated powers, as required by the Tenth Amendment."

Rolling back power is not succession... It's giving decision making power back to the states where it belongs....


Dragoness's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:12 PM

flowerforyou Do you even know what a red herring is??? It's not a smelly fish either....:wink:

It's an argument that has nothing to do with the story. Politicians are famous for these sorts of things. Even if racists wrote the plan, the idea of forcing the federal government to adhere to the constitution is smart, and good for our republic. This is important for our futures so we don't see more "G.W.'s" in office. Get me?


abiding by Constitution = no G.W.'s

Racism doesn't come into play. Therefore i support this idea. And you should too. Got some reading todo, get back to you tomorrow...flowerforyou


The last time this type of discussion was going on was during the civil rights movement so there is similarity.

Dragoness's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:14 PM

This might help:

"The various sovereignty measures moving through state legislatures are designed to reassert state authority through a rollback of federal authority under the powers enumerated in the Constitution, with the states assuming the governance of the non-enumerated powers, as required by the Tenth Amendment."

Rolling back power is not succession... It's giving decision making power back to the states where it belongs....




I have read several so far and it all comes down to a challenge being placed with no leverage other than secession or civil war. Nullifying the constitution is not a threat to the Federal government because the only nullification will be inside of the opposing state.

Fanta46's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:20 PM
You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh

Dragoness's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:22 PM

You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh


Hey, Fanta, you haven't been on much lately, working too hard?

Have you read through the whole thing?

Fanta46's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:27 PM


You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh


Hey, Fanta, you haven't been on much lately, working too hard?

Have you read through the whole thing?


Too much Im afraid.

The story isnt even legit. Why argue?
Just put on a tin foil hat and walk away...

Dragoness's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:31 PM



You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh


Hey, Fanta, you haven't been on much lately, working too hard?

Have you read through the whole thing?


Too much Im afraid.

The story isnt even legit. Why argue?
Just put on a tin foil hat and walk away...


:wink: laugh I have pretty much came to the same conclusion. Nice to see you on.flowerforyou

Fanta46's photo
Wed 02/25/09 10:32 PM
You too.

Isnt Norsley really Rambill?

Remember him?

damnitscloudy's photo
Wed 02/25/09 11:13 PM
In summary of this thread so far, for people who don't feel like reading the long drawn out posts;

States rights+racists=tinfoil hats


I don't get it either but i'm sure there is a long drawn out explanation on the matter. laugh

Drivinmenutz's photo
Thu 02/26/09 08:16 AM



You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh


Hey, Fanta, you haven't been on much lately, working too hard?

Have you read through the whole thing?


Too much Im afraid.

The story isnt even legit. Why argue?
Just put on a tin foil hat and walk away...


How is it not legit? I'm curious... I admit i don't know much about the legislation but i can find a number of stories on this to inclue New York times and Washington Post. Can't find any information on it being a hoax though... Not attacking i'm just genuinely curious...

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 02/26/09 08:43 AM
Edited by raiderfan_32 on Thu 02/26/09 08:51 AM

In summary of this thread so far, for people who don't feel like reading the long drawn out posts;

States rights+racists=tinfoil hats


I don't get it either but i'm sure there is a long drawn out explanation on the matter. laugh


I'll tell you exactly what this is. It's an 8 page, textbook example of how yelling RACISM!!! long enough and loud enough can put an end to any conversation on topics liberals don't want discussed. Big Central Government types like our beloved D don't like the idea of any power being taken away from the Fed Gov and being taken back by the hand of the people because everyone knows people that want to govern themselves are all RACIST!!!


Drivinmenutz's photo
Thu 02/26/09 08:46 AM


In summary of this thread so far, for people who don't feel like reading the long drawn out posts;

States rights+racists=tinfoil hats


I don't get it either but i'm sure there is a long drawn out explanation on the matter. laugh


I'll tell you exactly what this is. It's an 8 page, textbook example of how yelling RACISM!!! long enough and loud enough can put an end to any conversation on topics liberals don't want discussed. Big Central Government types like our beloved D don't like the idea of any power being taken away from the Fed Gov and being taken back by the hand of the people because everyone knows people that want to govern themselves are all RACIST!!!


well said drinker drinker drinker

raiderfan_32's photo
Thu 02/26/09 09:18 AM
As for the threat of nullifying the constitution means just that, Nullification of the Constitution. So if you look that up it means that the constitution will no longer be in effect. What does it mean if the contitution is no longer in effect in one state?

The only possible follow throughs for the threat of these proposals is secession or civil war. How else can they carry out the threat of nullification of the constitution? I guess they could claim the constitution is null and void and then continue on business as usual but what a waste of time that would be right?


=Ignorant beyond comprehension

google "constitutional convention" and "constitution article V"

think2deep's photo
Thu 02/26/09 09:43 AM


In summary of this thread so far, for people who don't feel like reading the long drawn out posts;

States rights+racists=tinfoil hats


I don't get it either but i'm sure there is a long drawn out explanation on the matter. laugh


I'll tell you exactly what this is. It's an 8 page, textbook example of how yelling RACISM!!! long enough and loud enough can put an end to any conversation on topics liberals don't want discussed. Big Central Government types like our beloved D don't like the idea of any power being taken away from the Fed Gov and being taken back by the hand of the people because everyone knows people that want to govern themselves are all RACIST!!!





TOUCHE!!!!!! LMAO. dragonbreath has only the racist card up her sleeve and that's the extent of it. she has nothing to say that actually can contribute to an intelligent conversation.

Winx's photo
Thu 02/26/09 09:47 AM
Dragonbreath?huh

Fanta46's photo
Thu 02/26/09 09:48 AM




You have all lost your minds.

Where's my tin-foil hat?

noway laugh laugh laugh


Hey, Fanta, you haven't been on much lately, working too hard?

Have you read through the whole thing?


Too much Im afraid.

The story isnt even legit. Why argue?
Just put on a tin foil hat and walk away...


How is it not legit? I'm curious... I admit i don't know much about the legislation but i can find a number of stories on this to inclue New York times and Washington Post. Can't find any information on it being a hoax though... Not attacking i'm just genuinely curious...


Bloggs my friend. That's all,,,

think2deep's photo
Thu 02/26/09 09:53 AM
fanta, i guess all is right in the world in your little fanta-sy
no one conspires, no one has bad thoughts, lollipops grow on trees and there are marshmallow rivers.

Winx's photo
Thu 02/26/09 10:25 AM

fanta, i guess all is right in the world in your little fanta-sy
no one conspires, no one has bad thoughts, lollipops grow on trees and there are marshmallow rivers.


Think2deep,

You've called Dragoness, Dragonbreath, and now this dig at Fanta.
This is only on this thread. There's more on other threads. Have you ever tried a discussion or debate without making digs at other people just because they don't think like you do?

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