John 8:42-47

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I
proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My
own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am
saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father
the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father He was a
murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because
there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his
own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because (M)I
speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of
sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears
the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are
not of God."

So the questions are:
Whose words do you hear? Whose bidding do you do?

I certainly do not quote your book. It is the book of bitterness. Each
time someone quotes it to me it is from bitterness in an attempt to
force me to comply with a man made doctrine.

What you quoted was written by someone named john.

I do not follow the words of the son.

I speak to you as a father speaks to a child.

Grow up and step outside the box of the book. gods glory is all around
you. Reach for that glory and the son will step aside and reveal to you
the truth.

He has gone unto that which was prepared for him. I do not worship his
death or resurection I revere his accension. For that I need no small
book of parables.

Then keep on truckin' man. You asked a question about something Jesus
taught and I explained it to you. Jesus is our High Priest. If you try
to come to the father directly, you won't get the reception that you
hope for.

I have been there.

My reception was great.

There is no need to have anyone between me and the father.

Why would I drink from the faucet when the fountain is but a few feet
further and its water sweeter and unfettered by the trappings of
mankind.

Dontlookatme, are you instructing with your comments or relaying an
opinion?

I don't believe any one in these threads is actually being asked to
defend God. For the most part no one is even being asked to defend
thier 'personl' belief. The majority of questions asked are related to
the position one takes and the logic one uses when referencing Biblical
writings. For example, to ask one why they believe baptisme is
necessary does not ask one to defend God. To ask one why they believe
you must completely immerse for baptism, while others believe that a
splash of holy water is sufficient, is not asking to defend God, or
their faith, only to answer a logical question. If the answer
supplied is not fully comprehended, perhaps your are speaking above that
person. Maybe you should try talking down to us. Or maybe, it's just
easier to keep your beliefs to yourself, and should you have children
that ask such questions, perhaps being quiet would be the best answer
too.

Spider, Here is the scripture you quoted. I've interjected some
comments. As usual Biblical quotes alway confound me, as they seem to
take on so many meanings.

John 8:42-47

""Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I
proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My
own initiative, but He sent Me.""

I was originally taken, sent, required to attend the Lutheran Church. In
this environment I learned that Jesus IS God. God in the flesh. Part of
the triune God, in three persons - you know, Father-Son-Holy Spirit or
Ghost. So right away, I don't understand why Jesus is saying he is not
here of his own initiative. Could it be that I'm missing some previous
part of this story. Like where is Jeses when he makes this comment. Is
it that he has been 'taken' somewhere not under his own initiative?
Please explain?

"""Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot
hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the
desires of your father"""

At the time of Jesus, the words Satan and devil had but one association.
The word devil was the translation of the word satan. Both, you see,
had but one definition - obstacle, to stand in the way of - So again I
wonder where was Jesus, who was he addressing? For the Roman Emperor
was called the devil by the Jews, those that would be Christians,
because Jesus considered him an obstacle - his obstacle, the one he
would not get passed. The Roman forces that were sent to oppose Jesus
and his followers were the devils legions. Now with this knowledge, who
is the devil to whom Jesus refers?

"""He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the
truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he
speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But
because (M)I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you
convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who
is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them,
because you are not of God." """

There are several thing here I'm at a loss to understand.
What truths did Jesus impart that we are not aware of from this section
of scripture. What exactly had Jesus said that was in qustion?
The last part is most confounding because it says to hear the word of
God you must be of God. How did one become 'of God'? And more, at
that time when one spoke as such; he 'is of' Abraham, meaning the son of
or direct descendant of a particular tribe. So if all men were created
by God, 'of God', how were some suddenly not related?

I am disappointed that there is no easy way of doing quotes... This
might get ugly.

=================================================================================
Redykeulous wrote:

Spider, Here is the scripture you quoted. I've interjected some
comments. As usual Biblical quotes alway confound me, as they seem to
take on so many meanings.

John 8:42-47

""Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I
proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My
own initiative, but He sent Me.""

I was originally taken, sent, required to attend the Lutheran Church. In
this environment I learned that Jesus IS God. God in the flesh. Part of
the triune God, in three persons - you know, Father-Son-Holy Spirit or
Ghost. So right away, I don't understand why Jesus is saying he is not
here of his own initiative. Could it be that I'm missing some previous
part of this story. Like where is Jeses when he makes this comment. Is
it that he has been 'taken' somewhere not under his own initiative?
Please explain?

=================================================================================
SpiderCMB replied:

God the father is above all. Jesus is directly subservient to God. We
are to make ourselves subservient to Jesus. Jesus was born, because it
was God's will. God asked Jesus to be a sacrifice for us and because
Jesus loves God and loves us, he agreed. He came not because he decided
to, but because God asked him to.

=================================================================================
Redykeulous wrote:

"""Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot
hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the
desires of your father"""

At the time of Jesus, the words Satan and devil had but one association.
The word devil was the translation of the word satan. Both, you see,
had but one definition - obstacle, to stand in the way of - So again I
wonder where was Jesus, who was he addressing? For the Roman Emperor
was called the devil by the Jews, those that would be Christians,
because Jesus considered him an obstacle - his obstacle, the one he
would not get passed. The Roman forces that were sent to oppose Jesus
and his followers were the devils legions. Now with this knowledge, who
is the devil to whom Jesus refers?

=================================================================================
SpiderCMB wrote:

Devil means someone who lies. Any liar can be called a devil, but when
Jesus spoke of *the* devil, he was referring to Satan. The Devil did
some pretty miraculous things, which the emperor of Rome wouldn't have
been capable of.

=================================================================================
Redykeulous wrote:

"""He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the
truth because there is no truth in him Whenever he speaks a lie, he
speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But
because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you
convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who
is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them,
because you are not of God." """

There are several thing here I'm at a loss to understand.
What truths did Jesus impart that we are not aware of from this section
of scripture. What exactly had Jesus said that was in qustion?
The last part is most confounding because it says to hear the word of
God you must be of God. How did one become 'of God'? And more, at
that time when one spoke as such; he 'is of' Abraham, meaning the son of
or direct descendant of a particular tribe. So if all men were created
by God, 'of God', how were some suddenly not related?

=================================================================================
SpiderCMB wrote:

This scripture is actually referring to how the various religious castes
in Jerusalem were accusing Jesus of lying.

You become one of God, if you follow the example for how we should life:
Jesus. Remember what I said before, that many of the commandments were
actually foreshadowing Jesus, so before Jesus was born, people could
follow the shadow of Jesus.

We were created by God, but Adam and Eve's act of disobeidience
seperated us from God.

"Jean, let me turn this question around: If there really is a God and He
is really all this great, then why is there bad things going on in the
world?"

The answer to your question was in my question. Where does/did anyone
ever get the idea, just because there's a God, that bad things aren't
supposed to happen?

There is nowhere in the Bible that states life here on this earth is
supposed to be free from pain, anguish, hurt, anger, etc., etc., that I
know of.

All of these things are part of being human and living this existence
here on Earth. If we lived in a perfect world, we'd have no need for
God, for redemption, for salvation; we'd have no hope for eternal life.

because for now the devil also walks upon the face of the earth as well
as god being all around so is satan it realy does happen ive seen it
show up in the damndest places when i was in different places really no
other way to explain what happened other than god to me . i dont often
quote the book i just tell them how it was for me at different times of
my life. everyone is entitled to his or her own way of thinking so long
as i can have mine lol it is supposed to be free will if it aint its
worthless as just following the steps like a play we are ment to live
different lives an go different ways at different times . I always think
he is preparing me when bad things happen which i too dont understand
when they happen but do know he has a reason he let it happen god knows
hes just waiting on you to choose life or death. like a father guiding a
son you can only lead them so long then you have to watch an let go of
them but still love them.

I would rather live like there is a God and be right than live like
there isn't a God and be wrong.