This might have been helpful to know.

I went through a divorce last year, she moved back in with her parents and I couldn't afford the house by myself.

We tried a short sale (had an interested buyer), but the bank denied it. I thought I had to find a place to live, so I moved out and bought a mobile home.

I could have just stayed in that house, paid the utilities and saved up for something better.

Oh well. Here's to a number of lessons learned.

Taxes are a cost of living in a civilized society. No one likes paying them, but I'd guess people would like the result of an anarchy society much less.

Excuse me, but how exactly do taxes make a society civilized?

Take a look at your taxpayer funded county jails, and taxpayer funded police and judges which usually do a good job of taking the extremely uncivilized people out of society.

This is not a valid argument, as it is done more efficiently and cheaper by private security.

Secondly, government police and judges have been implicated in way too many crimes and injustice, to be even remotely considered as doing a good job.

I would like to add more people to that list. Firefighters, police officers, public school teachers, highway and street maintenance workers, trashmen and more and more and more are all paid for by our taxes.

Yes, and I'm sure you could outsource Americas defense to the highest paid mercenaries too. And our politicians since you know..a fair number of them have been involved in crimes and corruption.

Why not just outsource all of Americas public servants to the private sector, and everyone can become guns for hire.

Same thing here.

Unless you are a socialist, then you should be able to see that if you are able to pay for it nation-wide, then you'd certainly be able to pay for this locality-wide, and cheaper too, since it would be private.

By choosing your locality then, you may for example in effect decline the firefighters, if you care for your own yard and house by your own means.

Still no reason for taxes.

You've got to be able to show one reason, people...

Oh yes.

Another example of taxpayer money being used for a civilized society is food standards through the Department of Agriculture.

See the recent peanut butter recall.

Nope.

I understand that you prefer to pay extra, in order to not watch out for what you buy on your own. But, I don't. I'd rather do it myself.

Thus, again, this doesn't serve us together. You could pay to a private company that would do certifications for you, if you prefer.

I'd rather take care of myself, I trust nobody.

Besides, are you again, giving us an example of how government screws up on our money, while people dies, supposedly under the umbrella of government care and protection.

This does not further your argument.

We don't need taxes to be civil. This is not the definition of civility, anyway.

Yes. I prefer to live in a society in which basic services are not sold to the highest bidder. Most people share that preference.

To be honest, I've never come across anyone whos attitude was "I can take care of everything myself, I don't need no one!". Not the staunchest Republican, not the most stubborn libertarian, and I really don't know any true anarchists. And thats because while alot of people gripe about our government, some with good reason and some simply for the sake of griping...most understand when you talk about privatizing police, national defense, roads and bridges, and schools...they like that alternative much less.

Perhaps you can point to a society that has existed on a long term basis that fits your ideals. I don't believe any have ever existed.

How old are you?
Really......
Do you honestly think it would be cheaper and better to hire private merc's, than to have a publicly founded Judaical system? (Police, Judges, etc...)
Who would pay for their services, and then who would keep them in check when the power goes to their heads?
What would prevent them from extorting more and more money from the people and executing those who disagree with them or refuse to pay?
Have you thought this out or are you just stoned?

Your first paragraph is an argument for majority. While others might say that this is no argument at all, I'd rather turn it right against you, by putting forward that since majority prefers it your way, you should have no problem hiring the lowest bidder or any bidder a majority prefers. This does not necessitate making in involuntary for all. Unless you are against minorities, that is, as a principle.

My attitude is "live and let live". This is most widely know as an American attitude, until we have become a socialist state in 1913.

Most think this way, because they cannot envision doing it any other way. I've just shown you the "other way".

Perhaps I could. How about America, before 1913 for starters?
It had a lot less government and a lot more freedom. Would you call it uncivilized?

Do certifications?
Do certifications?
Who is going to enforce the certification??
May I ask?

You just did away with your entire tax-payer funded Judaical System.
These thugs, cause that's what they'll become, will run rampant.
They'll become large Armies and take anything they want.
No individual will be able to defend themselves,their food, or wealth. Hell, you may have to defend your wife, sisters, and daughters virtue.
For all of that, you may be forced to bend over the nearest stump yourself before too long......

What is it with you and forcing others, Fanta?

You pay AAA? Who enforces their services?

You can pay private FDA, they will issue a bulletin, of what goods/producers they have found to be safe. Producers would invite them for certifications (if they have nothing to hide, that is) and stamp their approvals on their products. There will be competition, keeping certifiers in check, unless, of course, you again give the government some over riding powers, thus providing the government with a way to screw it all up by taking bribes and declaring one company better than another against the facts.

I understand it is unfair to leave you hanging. I do not mean it. You are sort of late to this discussion. I have to retire now. Goodnight.

Yes, it probably might be an 'argumentum ad populum'. However, since in America we vote for our elected officials, and those elected officials have, over time provided us with more services as our nation and our population has grown, and we over all have concurred mostly with that..or elected them based on those kinds of promises.. I suspect what kind of argument you think it might be is irrelevant. In any case, what might be an appropriate society for 200 people isn't appropriate for 300 million.

.

Oh, right. You're one of those people..maybe a Ron Paul supporter..who hates the 16th amendment to the Constitution. The one that provides for a direct income tax.

Except prior to 1913 taxes were still collected through other means and used for basic government services notably defense and Roosevelts anti-trust actions as well as the food and drug act of 1906 come to my mind, but there's alot more of government utilizing tax money from whatever sources for a 'civilized society'. Maybe Theodore Roosevelt was another big government liberal.


The other way you've shown me is a bit incorrect. Anyway, say you're correct that you want to live in a pre-1913 US. You know, where life expectancy was 47. alot of women died in childbirth, most people lived in rural areas and pollution in the urban areas contributed to quite a bit of disease. Nothing like 1600's England, but still I'll take 21st century America.

I addressed this above.



Sure, if you're okay with the medical standards of the time. And as I noted before, most people lived in rural areas. Urban areas were not so pleasant to live in.

I dont think I want to live in your world.
You're going to put the law in the hands of privately paid merc's, and never afford the poor respect or equal treatment.
It wont be long before everyone with money will hire their own merc's and the poor will become their targets.

You'll be requiring a piss test before giving them a loaf of bread.



We could just privatize the Fed Reserve, accept that we have the best society on earth. Not perfect, but that's why we will always work, together, to make it even better.
We will reserve the right to disagree, yet still work together.....




Good-night!

Darn Anarchist!!!