Jess, AB, Mike, thank-you all for understanding and honestly commenting
on my question. I have a bit more peace knowing that, there can be
faith, without dogma, that there can be truth within faith and that the
Bible has little to do with either.

Rambil, I'm not sure you understood what I was trying to say, either
that, or possibly you have no understanding of what other Christian
faiths are determining to be truths.

Let me ask you something. If every person who idetifies as a Christian,
wanted to have a specific set of rules to follow, aside from the Ten
Commandments, and YOU were asked to list them, could you show us at
least a partial list of those "laws" that YOU would have every Christian
believe? NO YOU CAN NOT LIST BIBLE VERSES. You must make them up,
without the crutch of a story. Will you take this challenge???

Oh I forgot - RAINBOW, you cracked me up, thanks

Red: I would like to add a thought, that the entire purpose of the
Bible, is that there is NO LAW upon christian ppl. Thats the WHOLE
intent of the Messiah - to free all ppl (particuarly Jews) from the Law,
(which according to Paul's words "was given for the sake of Sin").

So, a person 'professing' to be christian, cant cite any biblical 'law'
that would be applicable.

-Mike

Mike, that's pretty much the point I was hoping someone would make the
connection with. But I was hoping it would be some others than you.

the bible serves as a way to explain whats happening and why i.e. why do
husbands rule over their wives, why do we have to die, why do we have
pain giving a kid, why is the earth hard to grow stuff in certain
places, and last but not least the story is also their to construct what
is already going on like patriarchy and domination by men over women.

If men and women are equal. (I believe this to be the case) How then can
ANY book claim husbands RULE over their wives. A book that does so is
in this age outdated and surely has been replaced by god quietly in the
night while you were not looking.

As a father I expect to rule over my family. However I do not wish to
rule from a lonley throne but rather from the seat of love, which is
made for two.

In other words Iam a father not a king.

Fathers are balanced by mothers.

A basic guideline for spiritual living

*shrug*

i personally am a feminist, and the bible is male centered because its
androcentric, and written by man for man about man.. but thats my
personal view on the topic

SFL, I completely agree with that, but you do have to remember the Bible
was written during a time when that was "normal." Hell, even back in the
sixties women were still being opressed. Even today, for that matter,
though it's not quite as prevalent or evident.

I don't believe that every verse in the Bible is a directive to which we
have to live by in today's world. Much of the Bible is a history book,
and is not meant to be taken literally (in the sense that everything
stated in it is something we have to apply to ourselves for "righteous
living.")

The Bible also says to take up serpeants...some people think that's a
literal statement. Uh uhhhhh.

Yep the bible was written...

'SFL, I completely agree with that, but you do have to remember the
Bible was written during a time when that was "normal." Hell, even back
in the sixties women were still being opressed. Even today, for that
matter, though it's not quite as prevalent or evident.'...

By men... 'normal' for men at that time to think that way.

Why would god have put such predjuced comments in his word.

If you read the Quran, a lot of the stories have a less sexist
interpretation.

Example: Adam and Eve and the apple.

Bible: Eve was punished with child bearing pains.
Quran: They were both punished equally

Another Example: Education.

Bible: women were to ask their husbands.
Quran: Women and men must seek knowledge.

Hehe, They are both sexist in lots of aspects though. When the religions
started getting organized it was all done by men.

I think the bible is taken waaaay too literal sometimes. I read it and
I'm like "wow, that guy just blew up a whole roman army with a
fireball!" And it ends up being more of a comic book-like thing. Its
good to know what our ancestors believed, but I don't think much of it
can be used in modern times. If I go sacrifice a lamb, I'll ACC on my
tail really fast! But then again, if I love my neighbor in a friendship
type manner than its good and means I'm a good person.

AB, that was the law of the land, not the law of God. It was just how it
was in those days. It wasn't right, anymore than it was right to assume
a woman's "place" was "in the home" during the 50s and 60s.

The Jewish community created the text to separate themselves from those
around them. It made an insignificant tribe "special" as compared to
the Egyptians, Babylonians and many other nations that dominated the
world scene at the time. Has for History - there are snippets but if you
study archeology you'll find that there is more story telling and myth
than actual true history. As for guidance and morals - those who have
faith in the text never look at the inconsistencies, contradictions and
outright immoral acts committed by the faithful and god himself.
Ultimately, its purpose depends on your own perspective. Many cannot
live without it, since it defines the very essence and purpose for their
existence. As for me, I enjoy reading it and reading about it with an
open mind to see what makes sense, what is absurd, and to discuss it
with religious and anti-religious minded people.

The bible is for learning, like many text books. It's also for feeding
you spiritually. Without spiritual feeding your soul will die.

Why do I need the bible to feed my spirituality when I have nature and
therefore God all around me?

Well, when you first start learning how to cook, why do you need a
recipe to follow in order to bake a cake?

You're not born knowing how to bake a cake, you either follow a recipe
or you learn it from someone else.

What cake you bake depends on what recipe you follow.

The Bible is but one "recipe" to steer a person's conscience in the
right direction.

first of all, it is all a matter of interpretation, the bible can be
something that inspires a person but it also serves as the foundation
for oppression, you can look at homosexuals, because of the leviticus
holy code it says that a man shall not lay with another man, that one
line has been dropped on homosexuals to prove how " evil " or " wrong"
it is however in the same section it talks about how people who take
gods name in vain should be stoned to death , you should give
sacrifices when you do certain things, and how you're not suppose to
eat or touch pork, yet people dont bother to raise those up, because
they pick and chooe what they want! also the bible is anti-woman,
genesis for example adam is made from god, to till gods land, and is
made first, even is inferior because she comes from man, is made to be a
helper ( procreator) and is made second.. also if you go by genesis 2
some theologians have said she came from mans crooked rib! bc she is
crooked, not to mention that in say the last supper there are no women
mentioned..why? are you telling me jesus instead of seeing his mother
on the last night he was alive decided to have a boys night??? plus who
cooked the meal? cause it wasnt the men, and then the problem that eve
and adam are the only 2 people and eve has 2 sons.. so where did we come
from??? if you say that there are women there the bible just doesn't
mention them then you have to ask what else isn't the text telling
you.... fi you say no women were there well then... we're all
technically related since eve is all of our mothers.. but you know just
a couple of problems to show that depending upon your interpretation
and hind sight on the bible will depend on how you read it, and for a
male it is hard to see the oppression in the text, the bible is either
literal or it is a figure that is illustration on how we should live our
lives, either way theres a problem with it, because it certainly can't
be both

Jean, you pose the point that even a cook book is a basis from which to
LEARN how to cook. So are you saying we all LEARN about God from this
book? Exactly what are we learning from your point of view? What I
see is a great difference of opinion, some thrust upon society to such
an extent that is causes violence, and hate to flourish.

Here's the flux of what I was getting to. The word that God exists, was
passed down through word of mouth for many, many, generations. It was a
faith based way of life that was harbored in many family units and small
villeges and created a recognised way to accept those things that we can
not explain. Until it came up against the growing and changing
metropolis it was a peaceful way of life. When it existed within a
metopolis, it became sect oriented, just another cult of faith oriented
believers who were allowed to follow thier way of life, as long as it
did not interfere with the general rules/laws that kept the metropolis
running and growing, in other words polotics.

The largest of all histories battles began with this book, the Bible.
So what does it teach again? What is so important in this book that
could not have continued to be handed down word of mouth? I have an
answer - it was created to 'force' the majority within a polotical
regime to have ONE religious law, to have a peaceful co-existence within
the community. FORCE being the operative word here.

'Force' continued the propegation of this book as it was adjusted to fit
the polotics of any given country. When it's word was spread far
enough, when the, once forced, now believers were educated enough and
became distant enough, it was suddenly a book that was difficult to
change. However, we seem to have found MANY diversified ways to change,
simply by interpretation.

So how long do we allow our faith to be driven by that which was
imposed,forced, on society. Why do any find it necessary, when
conveying their belief in a God, to have a cookbook?

I truly enjoy reading everyone's comments & opinions in the "religion"
threads. As for the bible, my opinion, it is a history book & one must
remember that the "winners" write the books. It should also be
remembered that it has been translated numerous times & we all should
understand that things do get lost in the translation. I find it very
sad & disheartening that so many people throughout the past 2,000+ years
have been killed because of this book. Few other literary works can
claim such a bloody legacy. Which to me, makes the "thou shall not kill"
statement incomplete. Maybe it should have read "thou shall not kill,
unless it is because someone does not have the same religious beliefs
set forth in this book."

As far as mass production/distribution.....haven't the Gideons been
there & did that?

Just my opinions, please, try not to get your knickers in a twist.