The reason these laws have not been repealed is because other laws have rendered them mote points. But I agree that they should be taken off the books and that it should not be so difficult to do that, but it is.

There is still a law in Colorado that you can hang a horse thief on the spot, but that law is null and void because of other laws.

You can literally find hundreds of ridiculous laws still on the books that are not enforceable, so citing these laws is pointless.

If you want to stir something up find one that is being enforced and then I will pay attention.

Oh no I am not stirring anything up. I am just interested on Atheism. My original question was where did it start? Who invented it? Was it scientists or historians. Was it there all along?

Then the website led to discrimination of Atheists, which led me to find some unusual laws that shouldn't be in the books.

It is dissappointing that the Government worries about fundraising, lobbyists earnings, and deciding if a watermelon should be declared as a states vegetable.

They should clean up the law books. Erase anything that shouldn't be in there. That would be one way to spend our hard earned tax money.

I believe as long as those laws are still in the books the government can decide if they want to use them or not on a unlucky individual. We as the people shouldn't allow it.

But the reason I got involved in this subject is that you gave the impression that atheism was illegal in America. That is simply not true.

People from other countries read these threads and I don't think that kind of propaganda is constructive because it is misleading.

There is discrimination of course, but that goes on in all societies. But America is not persecuting atheists or rounding them up and putting them in jail or arresting them for not going to church or anything like that.

Quoting George Bush does not prove anything either. I don't think anyone takes him seriously anyway, he's an idiot.

I am in favor of atheists in that they hold their own power and that makes them a powerful force. But they should be careful not to lean too heavily on the scientific community either because that is also controlled by government forces as is the media.

I am an advocate of a person being their own final authority.

Many religious friends I have told this to have gasped in horror when I say this. They believe that God is the final authority. Well, I've never met God in person, so I have to go with me as being the final authority in my life.

I trust in me which includes my higher mind and my higher self.

(This higher self is not "God" and I don't claim to be "God." )

Atheism didn't start anywhere. All children are born atheists. It takes HEAVY indoctrination to teach them otherwise.

The question you should be asking is where did belief in God start?

Atheism did not start anywhere. It is not something that had to be "invented."

I didn't mention that Americans are going door to door grabbing Atheists and throwing them in jails. I just mentioned that it is one country that still has laws against those who don't believe in a God. I know the grounding fathers of this country wouldn't have enjoyed these later laws put into the books, but they are there and should be taken out of context.

Now other countries especially the Muslim countries have stronger laws against infidels as they call them. Go to Syria and say you are a atheist. You will have many people upset with you in a heartbeat.

Singapore did have laws that are strong against atheism for they had many riots. I know they have strong laws against Jehovah Witness members also and set some laws in. Singapore is a successful Asian country, but do have some of the strictest laws in the world. It seems to keep order though. Throw a piece of gum on the street and see what happens. lol

Well the fact that an American couldn't apply for a government job if he indicates he is a Atheist in 7 of those states that I mentioned is discrimination. I guess a Buddhist will have a hard time working for the government if he chooses to. And although many laws that are not practiced anymore can still be used as a defense from the government if choosed to be. I think that is wrong.



and the fact that if one who works for the government that one must swear oath to god is something that should be worked on also. Perhaps one can just say I swear to the best of my knowledge.

I quoted Bush because it amazes me that so many Americans voted for him at the time. Not once, but twice! I also believed his cabinet helped trigger much of the recession we have today as the money spent could have been more effectively used such as erradicating probably half of the laws in the books, fighting illegal immigration, restoring the budget, and creating new jobs.

I know your position on what you believe in Jeannie concerning religion and spirituality. I never contradicted your belief system.

In the long run what I am saying is anything that is written in a law book (even if not used) shouldn't be taken lightly.

yes I read that when a baby is born he or she is a atheist and later through upbringing may be practicing a religion or belief system.

Perhaps the better question would be who made atheism more popular?

oh yes you should know by now that I believe that this is all man made inventions as I often use mythology for entertainment purposes. I am probably more atheist then believe to know just for the fact I never got involved with religion or spirituality for most of my life. I was completely naive of those who practiced it and just moved on not even registering how important it was for many people. Well that was until I travelled to other countries and landed in the United States where practically every corner their is a church or somekind of religious building reminding you or having some missionary knocking on your door twice a week.

As you know I have become a bit more spiritual, but only because I have more time in my hands then I would usually have, which probably bounces me back to being agnostic. lol

I am living proof that religion is not important to live a good life.

In this country being anything other than a christian could disqualify you from a government position if it were known. It's discrimination, but people denied jobs can't prove it. I agree they can pick and choose laws. It's just like those that pick and choose bible verses to go by.

If this law was created I can GUARANTEE that it was enforced at least once . . . .
I do not agree that it is pointless.

The practice of Atheism? Atheism is not a religion so How does one practice atheism? And since when is it illegal to NOT believe in something? Even God?

Makes not sense at all..

Having read as much as I can about the past it became very clear to me why man chose to believe in gods, it was enough for me to set it aside. It's only been recent that I was aware of how despised atheists are. That makes no sense either.

If having these ridiculous laws still on the books is a problem, then someone would probably get them removed. But since the are not being enforced they are not a problem.

There is probably no job description or office with people who are in charge of getting rid of obsolete laws of which I am sure there are thousands. The only time they are dealt with are when someone tries to enforce them and they are taken to a higher court and declared unconstitutional.

The only reason I can see for siting them is for people's amusement and the only reason I can see for complaining about them is if someone attempts to enforce them.

Other than that, people concerned about these laws are just creating a problem that does not actually exist. If it really bothers them that these obsolete laws are still on the books they should spend their time trying to find out how to remove them. When they find out the complicated process of repealing them, they will probably decide it is not worth their effort and no body is going to pay them for doing that work.

The only time these laws would become a problem is if someone tries to enforce them. So until then, they are not a problem.

Actually I never thought about the word until a neighbor asked me if I believed in God and I said no. she then asked me if I was an Atheist. Still not knowing that was a loaded question, I said I don't feel the need to label myself as anything. I just don't believe what I was brought up to believe and it spent years facinated with the subject of god and other beliefs, but reading about the history of man changed all that for me.

I didn't really know until I came to this forum that people were so uptight about people who just don't believe it. It seems to make those that believe more determined to prove god does exist, but they aren't proving it to me, and no one has so far.

Smiless - you asked, so I'm responding "history lesson"

The field of anthropology includes a treasure trove of material from all over the world regarding what humans have believed. The earliest known beliefs were that of Animism and it existed in most of the aboriginal and native cultures. While there are a diverse number of characteristics between all these beliefs, there seems to be one basic commonality; spirituality. It was believed that every object was endowed with a spirit. The spirt was the life force of the object and existed as an immaterial spirit when it was no longer part of the life force of the object. The immaterial spirit was not individual, it was a shared, common, universal spirit.

Many of these beliefs carried in the follow up belief systems of pantheism.

The earliest idea of a separate god is often linked to sex. Since animism was a complete veneration of all life force, and all life force, “spirit” existed in every natural object, it was nature that was venerated. As man began to develop a sense of understanding that, in nature, it was only females that brought forth life, it was believed that women were the givers of that life force. This is how god became a separate notion. In most cultures it was Earth, itself, that became the ‘supreme’ live giving force, because Earth yielded all that was necessary for the continuance of life (ecosystem).

Later developments included the goddesses of matriarchal societies. But women tended to be more transient, following their men ‘husbands’ and leaving their rightfully inherited fortunes to their male members. As cultures developed many of the them share the same transitions. As men gained power through their new ownerships, intellect was also gaining momentum and it was realized that women were only a vessel and it was the seed of ‘man’ that created the life force. History then shows new gods appearing if the male form.

At some point it was acknowledged that men and women were equal necessities to the emergence of new life force, and therefore there must be a greater singular creative force – monotheism was born. There had to be a dualistic nature to the one god as ‘He’ created a dualistic nature in the universe, requiring both male and female to give life. It was this idea, and the questions surrounding this notion that eventually became the Christion idea of god in three persons – God the father, God the son (remember by this time societies were patriarchal and they still believe God favored them as the ‘carrier’ of the ‘seed’. They didn’t yet understand that about the seed and the germ. And then, of course, we can’t leave the oldest belief system known to man totally out of the picture, thus there was God the ‘spirit’.

This is all very, very brief, and there is much more in the way of time and developments, but I’ve given the highlights.

So there you have it – ALL gods are the creation of man and not the other way around. In fact – all humans began as atheists because animism did not have any god or gods, only spirit – ‘the life force’ and it was a universal ‘one’, so all the universe was connected and was one with the spirit.

Actually I think what you describe as Animism is about the closest description that I have ever heard of what I believe. Very strange.

I believe the universe is alive!

ITS ALIVE! ITS ALIVE I TELL YOU!

Works well for me too...

thank you Red for a deeper understanding of how it all started. Very educational as usual when you post my friend.

I wish you a great new year with much fortunes, happiness, joy, and laughter.

Yes JB, and I think Abra feels the same way too. I suppose annimism is the closest thing to a religion I have ever embrace. However, nature by my definition is a word that simplifies the entire workings of the universe. In that sense I hold nature in very high regard, but I just can't do the spirit part of the religion, although for while I tried to validate the theory, but it created too much cognitive dissonance for me.

Your welcome Smiless and may I extend my oun wish for everyones happiness in 2009.