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| Topic: Many Christians say | |
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Thank you Thomas and MorningSong for the clarification.
I only get the information from Christians themselves. I figure there are many Christians who don't know their own bible or get confused with its teachings. I understand now that you are not born a sinner, but are a sinner if you sinned. So those are the people who need to seek Christ as the savior to enter heaven. Now those who never sinned shouldn't have to seek anything for they lived a life without murdering, killing, or what have you. They are automatically saved and get a free ticket into heaven. Would you agree with this? |
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Smiles....every single human being is born with a sin nature....
inherited from the first born man ....Adam.... meaning we are a prone to sin... however, Jesus bore all our sins already on that cross and forgave us for sins..... all we have to do is recieve this free gift of grace given.... Jesus Himself, into our hearts..and God does something miraculously in us.... he gives us a brand spanking new spirit.... and our sins are washed away.... and we are made whiter than snow... all because we recieve Jesus into iur hearts, who bore all our sins on the cross for us. BUT, after being saved, IF we goof up again,( and we will cause no human is perfect....) then we have an advocate with the Father thru Christ Jesus, that, if we are confess our sin, Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.... and cleanse us of all our unrighteousness.... simply because a christian has accepted Jesus , and has now become a new creature in christ... his old sin nature is now under the blood.... and when a christian stands before God, all God sees is the blood of Jesus shed on that cross....... and not that christian's sin anymore.... cause Jesus paid for it all.... and bore it all on the cross for us... so we wouldn't have to anymore. The first time we were born of the first man adam.... the second time we are born of the so second adam, known as Jesus Christ(by being born again in the spirit). Hope this helps...typing at 200 mph here... gotta run.....be Blessed now, Smiless!!!.....    
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Good Morning MorningSong who sings great songs in the morning
I thank you for the clarification and wisdom you share with me today. Where are you always running to? You always mention you are on a run 50% of the time you post
I hope not from the police
Just joking. I am full of humor today. Some like it others hate it
Have a wonderful day and don't forget to pick up a sandwich while running
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GOD says we are sinners that is why He sent a Savior! Is that the same book that says that God told people to judge their neighbors and stone sinners to death? I don't believe that book is the word of any God. That book is clearly the word of godforsaken men who tell people to judge each other and stone people to death. Why would you assume that book is the word of any God? That's you folly right there. 
You believe what you want and I will believe in God. |
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I judge everyone. Especially babies.
Seriously why would Christians (not saying all) but why would some even judge infants as having sin? Can anyone explain in their own words? |
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Many Christians say that they don't look at people as a good person or a bad person. They claim this is looking at people from a judgemental view, yet they choose to see that we are born as sinners and need to find salvation. If a Christian believes we are sinners as soon as we pop out of our mother's body, wouldn't you call this as a judgemental view in itself? This is not what a christian believes. A christian believes that a sinner is someone who has sinned. I am now confused Eljay. It is nice to hear from you again. Well - (in President Reagan voice)
I understand that one is a sinner as soon as you are born and given the chance to rejoice Christ as your savior. You say that a sinner is someone who has sinned. So this means at a later life if a human sinned then he has to then rejoice Christ as his savior. Is this correct? What you are born with is a "sin nature" - as it were. The capacity - or ability to know the difference between right and wrong. Or Good and Evil if you will. Sin is esentially a quantity measurement of good. It is a lack of it, like cold is a lack of heat. Since good and evil are esentially biblical terms - when viewed biblically - good is an absolute. As is truth. So missing the mark of the absolute is sin, lain and simple. It is not a qualitative entity, as society terms it - to God, all sin equal. That is why salvation for the murderer comes as easily as that of one who curses. The reason why the bible says that "all men sin and fall short of the glory of God" - is because it is intended for those who can comprehensively understand what is being said in this passage. It is not saying that an infant who is born, and then dies 3 days later is not saved - or that they have sinned. Sinning is a "willful decision to fall short of absolute good". This absolute does not lie in the perception of the sinner though, which is the purpose that conscience has to convict one of the knowledge of wrong doing. This is the christian (i.e. biblical - not denominational) perspective on your original post. You will find this idea contradicted in some "christian" denominations, Catholicism being the most recognized example. In Catholicism - it is believed that a person is born with "original sin". This is not a biblically supported tennent though - it is a traditional one, giving reason for infant baptism. The purpose of which is to prevent a child from not making it into heaven. But the biblical mandate for Baptism is that it is a decision made by one who is within the age of reason (an arbitraty number - as it were.) as an public declaration of a repentant "soul". So - as the bible says "It is the soul who sins who will die", it stands to reason that it is not until one can comprehend what sin is to determine that they are in need of reconsiliation to God. That reconciliation does not come through any amount of doing "good" things - because it is expected that the choice be to always do good, but that this reconciliation come through Christs action on the cross - thus a mere accceptance (or belief if you will) of this selfless act, reconciles one to God. It is at this point that one "rejoices in Jesus" - as you say. Sorry about this lengthy post, but as you can see, the answer to your question is not as simplistic as one might think. |
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sat 12/20/08 04:33 AM
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I didn't know that When you tell someone that if they put their hand in the fire they will get burned... as being judgemental. ????
I think people really need to use the dictionary when they use such words. Something desperately needed under the tree this year. For those who celibrate Christmas that is... Makes one wonder how many here who bash Christianity celebrate it anyway??? Hypocrisy. Now there's a concept. |
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Edited by
invisible
on
Sat 12/20/08 04:40 AM
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I didn't know that When you tell someone that if they put their hand in the fire they will get burned... as being judgemental. ???? I think people really need to use the dictionary when they use such words. Something desperately needed under the tree this year. For those who celibrate Christmas that is... Makes one wonder how many here who bash Christianity celebrate it anyway??? Hypocrisy. Now there's a concept. Maybe as far as a dictionary goes you shouldn't look for the splinter in the eyes of others? From what I've seen you are as judgmental as they come, calling everyone and all atheists and liberals because they don't believe as you do, without knowing squat about them. Read your bible properly for once. |
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Many Christians say that they don't look at people as a good person or a bad person. They claim this is looking at people from a judgemental view, yet they choose to see that we are born as sinners and need to find salvation. If a Christian believes we are sinners as soon as we pop out of our mother's body, wouldn't you call this as a judgemental view in itself? This is not what a christian believes. A christian believes that a sinner is someone who has sinned. I am now confused Eljay. It is nice to hear from you again. Well - (in President Reagan voice)
I understand that one is a sinner as soon as you are born and given the chance to rejoice Christ as your savior. You say that a sinner is someone who has sinned. So this means at a later life if a human sinned then he has to then rejoice Christ as his savior. Is this correct? What you are born with is a "sin nature" - as it were. The capacity - or ability to know the difference between right and wrong. Or Good and Evil if you will. Sin is esentially a quantity measurement of good. It is a lack of it, like cold is a lack of heat. Since good and evil are esentially biblical terms - when viewed biblically - good is an absolute. As is truth. So missing the mark of the absolute is sin, lain and simple. It is not a qualitative entity, as society terms it - to God, all sin equal. That is why salvation for the murderer comes as easily as that of one who curses. The reason why the bible says that "all men sin and fall short of the glory of God" - is because it is intended for those who can comprehensively understand what is being said in this passage. It is not saying that an infant who is born, and then dies 3 days later is not saved - or that they have sinned. Sinning is a "willful decision to fall short of absolute good". This absolute does not lie in the perception of the sinner though, which is the purpose that conscience has to convict one of the knowledge of wrong doing. This is the christian (i.e. biblical - not denominational) perspective on your original post. You will find this idea contradicted in some "christian" denominations, Catholicism being the most recognized example. In Catholicism - it is believed that a person is born with "original sin". This is not a biblically supported tennent though - it is a traditional one, giving reason for infant baptism. The purpose of which is to prevent a child from not making it into heaven. But the biblical mandate for Baptism is that it is a decision made by one who is within the age of reason (an arbitraty number - as it were.) as an public declaration of a repentant "soul". So - as the bible says "It is the soul who sins who will die", it stands to reason that it is not until one can comprehend what sin is to determine that they are in need of reconsiliation to God. That reconciliation does not come through any amount of doing "good" things - because it is expected that the choice be to always do good, but that this reconciliation come through Christs action on the cross - thus a mere accceptance (or belief if you will) of this selfless act, reconciles one to God. It is at this point that one "rejoices in Jesus" - as you say. Sorry about this lengthy post, but as you can see, the answer to your question is not as simplistic as one might think. thank you Eljay for your clarification. I see now why there is some confusion between the different Christian denominations. One can interpet the passages differently. Your interpertation makes sense. Thank you again for the lesson. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 12/20/08 07:41 AM
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I didn't know that When you tell someone that if they put their hand in the fire they will get burned... as being judgemental. ???? I think people really need to use the dictionary when they use such words. Something desperately needed under the tree this year. For those who celibrate Christmas that is... Makes one wonder how many here who bash Christianity celebrate it anyway??? Hypocrisy. Now there's a concept. I personally celebrate Yule thank you very much which was the original holiday that the Christians stole from the Pagans and reassigned to Christianity. Originally Yule was the observance of the Winter Solstice celebration. Crack a history book. |
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Many Christians say that they don't look at people as a good person or a bad person. They claim this is looking at people from a judgemental view, yet they choose to see that we are born as sinners and need to find salvation. If a Christian believes we are sinners as soon as we pop out of our mother's body, wouldn't you call this as a judgemental view in itself? Everybody sins, but that doesn't mean that I label them good or bad. It's kind of a fact. My dog needs to eat food, but I don't attach any judgment to that. It's just the way it is. |
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i don't judge anyone 
but of course you do. It is in our nature one way or another, yet I am talking about in a religious perspective a Christian says they do not judge good or bad in people, but call us all sinners if we don't find rejoice in the savior of Christ? I would like to known if that isn't a fundamental thought in itself? Even when someone rejoices in the Savior, they are still sinners, once again, there is no judgmental label put on it. |
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Take your judgment of Christians elsewheres. Sounds like u might as well get used to it. If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. John 15:17-20 Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-13 |
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GOD says we are sinners that is why He sent a Savior! Is that the same book that says that God told people to judge their neighbors and stone sinners to death? I don't believe that book is the word of any God. That book is clearly the word of godforsaken men who tell people to judge each other and stone people to death. Why would you assume that book is the word of any God? That's you folly right there.
Ah another age old and still unanswered question. Yes those are both from the same book. Old Testament had stonings. Sounds harsh I know. I have heard of 2 reasons for the change. 1. Having a kid can change your point of view and ( I think more likely) 2. The purpose of all the laws in the Old Testament was to show us how impossible it is to be truly righteous before God, hece the need for a savior. I would also like to address the misconception about judging. The Bible clearly states "not" to judge, many times. Clearly the subject is vast and can be confusing to try and understand all the complexities. Lastly, on your final question, I would say because it advocates good things. There is a point in the Bible where somebody asks Jesus, "what is the great commandment?". Jesus said, if you read the whole Old Testament and you get this, to love God and love people, then that is a pretty good reading. The book also says to take care of the poor, love your enemies, and have a relationship with God. Sounds like a pretty reasonable book to me, certainly could be words of God. |
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