Community > Science & Philosophy

Topic: Is ignorance a choice or something ingrained into people.
SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Wed 12/03/08 12:16 PM
We live in an age of instant news and where knowledge resides just beyond the click of the mouse. With all this knowledge available to us why is the united states so far behind other nations in education? What is it that is holding our students back? Is ignorance a choice like my grandfather suggested and we as a people are choosing to limit our knowledge and understanding? Or perhaps it something in our culture and society that persists in keeping us from reaching our full potential? Let me know what you all think. In some instances for me it's a choice.. In my field of work I have learned that I don't really know what is going on in the world, I only know what the media thinks I should or wants me to know.. so unless I can find out on my own, I would rather know nothing at all then what they want me to believe.. I might catch bits and pieces here or there but I don't trust it fully... In other instances, I like hearing another person's point of view and I'm open to their ideas and beliefs, rather than just be ignorant and close-minded. I think the easy access to information on the internet is great and being able to research whatever my heart desires. But anyone can post anything on the internet, how reliable is all that information that your trusting to expand your knowledge... I think this is a very good point. As Splendid said, ignorance is simply lack of knowledge. And if the only source of knowledge you have is feeding you biased or slanted information, ignorance is not so much a choice as it is a result of unreliable sources. Another factor is the educational system itself. I believe that the "no child left behind" mindset is in large part responsible. Graduating a student just to keep them in the same social clique is counter productive. The actual result is a functionally illiterate citizen that is more of a burden to society than an asset. So instead of "leaving them behind" for a couple years in their youth, you "leave them behind" for their entire adult life. And of course there are "learning disabilities". Some of which are validly inabilities to assimilate information. And some of which are simply the product of an inability to teach effectively. We watch our Society "leaving people behind" and diagnosing popular "disabilities" (Learning Disability, ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, etc.) resulting in citizens being kept continuously dependent upon Social "Services" as a repeating pattern from generation to generation. Social Service Agencies contribute only enough monetary assistance to barely survive and little to no further education, resulting in further breakdown of the system (i.e. illegal sales of prescription drugs to "get by" w/ legal ramifications) and little to no viable programs in place to break the cycle. For some, staying "ignorant" (in this context) seems the only way to subsist. Bingo! I know... A bit Off Topic... But: If two or more citizens recognize this pattern, perhaps the next step is in creative invention of ideas leading to viable solutions? I don't think it could be considered off-topic to propose a solution to the problem that was presented by the topic. I think the only true solution to the problem is to remove the incentive. If we reward a thing, we get more of it. If we reward ignorance, we get more ignorance. By rewarding it we are actually encouraging its increase. By supporting peoplefor the sole reason that they are ignorant, we are, in fact, supporting ignorance. Now I'm not saying that removing the incentive would be an easy thing to do. The take-from-the-rich-to-give-to-the-poor welfare mentality is the "squeakiest wheel" in our entire socio-political system. And as such is the most difficult to change. But the fact is that the problem will continue to persist unless and until that "reward ignorance" practice changes. There are some major players involved (like Pharmaceutical Companies) that stand to gain from the take-from-the-rich-to-give-to-the-poor welfare mentality... As long as Medicaid foots the bill: Pharmaceutical Companies get richer while perpetuating the cycle by pushing medications to "treat" what could, in "reality", only fall under the heading of Social Dis-Ease. I mean... Have you seen the latest Abilify commercial?! "If your anti-depressant isn't enough..." Powerful Pharmaceutical Companies would seem to have an agenda to perpetuate this cycle. I'm so glad to see that someone else understands the magnitude of this particular problem. Splendid And on the flip side of that same coin, the psychiapriests who make up these dis-eases out of thin air, collect a tidy fee for doing nothing more effective than listening to symptoms for a few minutes and then prescribing these drugs - claiming that they "correct a chemical imbalance" but without ever doing any chemical tests. And to top it off, they have the unmitigated audacity to call their profession "scientific". Pfooey! (Om Mani Padme Hum)

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Wed 12/03/08 12:36 PM Edited by splendidlife on Wed 12/03/08 01:00 PM
We live in an age of instant news and where knowledge resides just beyond the click of the mouse. With all this knowledge available to us why is the united states so far behind other nations in education? What is it that is holding our students back? Is ignorance a choice like my grandfather suggested and we as a people are choosing to limit our knowledge and understanding? Or perhaps it something in our culture and society that persists in keeping us from reaching our full potential? Let me know what you all think. In some instances for me it's a choice.. In my field of work I have learned that I don't really know what is going on in the world, I only know what the media thinks I should or wants me to know.. so unless I can find out on my own, I would rather know nothing at all then what they want me to believe.. I might catch bits and pieces here or there but I don't trust it fully... In other instances, I like hearing another person's point of view and I'm open to their ideas and beliefs, rather than just be ignorant and close-minded. I think the easy access to information on the internet is great and being able to research whatever my heart desires. But anyone can post anything on the internet, how reliable is all that information that your trusting to expand your knowledge... I think this is a very good point. As Splendid said, ignorance is simply lack of knowledge. And if the only source of knowledge you have is feeding you biased or slanted information, ignorance is not so much a choice as it is a result of unreliable sources. Another factor is the educational system itself. I believe that the "no child left behind" mindset is in large part responsible. Graduating a student just to keep them in the same social clique is counter productive. The actual result is a functionally illiterate citizen that is more of a burden to society than an asset. So instead of "leaving them behind" for a couple years in their youth, you "leave them behind" for their entire adult life. And of course there are "learning disabilities". Some of which are validly inabilities to assimilate information. And some of which are simply the product of an inability to teach effectively. We watch our Society "leaving people behind" and diagnosing popular "disabilities" (Learning Disability, ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, etc.) resulting in citizens being kept continuously dependent upon Social "Services" as a repeating pattern from generation to generation. Social Service Agencies contribute only enough monetary assistance to barely survive and little to no further education, resulting in further breakdown of the system (i.e. illegal sales of prescription drugs to "get by" w/ legal ramifications) and little to no viable programs in place to break the cycle. For some, staying "ignorant" (in this context) seems the only way to subsist. Bingo! I know... A bit Off Topic... But: If two or more citizens recognize this pattern, perhaps the next step is in creative invention of ideas leading to viable solutions? I don't think it could be considered off-topic to propose a solution to the problem that was presented by the topic. I think the only true solution to the problem is to remove the incentive. If we reward a thing, we get more of it. If we reward ignorance, we get more ignorance. By rewarding it we are actually encouraging its increase. By supporting peoplefor the sole reason that they are ignorant, we are, in fact, supporting ignorance. Now I'm not saying that removing the incentive would be an easy thing to do. The take-from-the-rich-to-give-to-the-poor welfare mentality is the "squeakiest wheel" in our entire socio-political system. And as such is the most difficult to change. But the fact is that the problem will continue to persist unless and until that "reward ignorance" practice changes. There are some major players involved (like Pharmaceutical Companies) that stand to gain from the take-from-the-rich-to-give-to-the-poor welfare mentality... As long as Medicaid foots the bill: Pharmaceutical Companies get richer while perpetuating the cycle by pushing medications to "treat" what could, in "reality", only fall under the heading of Social Dis-Ease. I mean... Have you seen the latest Abilify commercial?! "If your anti-depressant isn't enough..." Powerful Pharmaceutical Companies would seem to have an agenda to perpetuate this cycle. I'm so glad to see that someone else understands the magnitude of this particular problem. Splendid And on the flip side of that same coin, the psychiapriests who make up these dis-eases out of thin air, collect a tidy fee for doing nothing more effective than listening to symptoms for a few minutes and then prescribing these drugs - claiming that they "correct a chemical imbalance" but without ever doing any chemical tests. And to top it off, they have the unmitigated audacity to call their profession "scientific". Pfooey! (Om Mani Padme Hum) Indeed! Psychiatry: Part Alchemy, part Malarkey and just a smidgen Scientific. Psychiatrists can be loose cannons with regard to prescribing medications. Imagine my frustration today from having studied this "science", participated in the administering of this paradigm and these medications with the blind belief that I was "helping". There are so many well-intentioned people still actively greasing the wheel of this machine with little to no understanding of the possible ramifications.

Maikuru Joined Sat 10/11/08 Posts: 177	Thu 12/04/08 04:28 AM
wow i am gone for a day and look what happens. I agree with splendid that ignorance as a whole is just a lack of knowledge and understanding. My focus with this thread was to get everyone's thoughts as to whether being ignorant was a choice we make or something that is ingrained into us. I even leave it open for it to be a combination. My main question is how do we break such trends in ourselves and in our society as a whole?

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Thu 12/04/08 07:43 AM
wow i am gone for a day and look what happens. I agree with splendid that ignorance as a whole is just a lack of knowledge and understanding. My focus with this thread was to get everyone's thoughts as to whether being ignorant was a choice we make or something that is ingrained into us. I even leave it open for it to be a combination. My main question is how do we break such trends in ourselves and in our society as a whole? Perhaps it could start with each of us individually... How often within any given day does one see something another does and perceive it as completely ignorant? TNTC (to numerous to count), right? If we could begin slowly by first noticing our own perceptions (when they arise) of ignorance in others and remember that ignorance as a whole is just a lack of knowledge and understanding... Perhaps our condemnation of others (to hide our own lack of acceptance of our own ignorance) could begin to dissipate. It probably needs to begin with acknowledging and sort-of accepting our own ignorance, ultimately leading to a self-forbearance. Easier said than done... Yet, once its been done just a few times, one would begin to want more of that feeling of relief after having passed through acknowledgment, acceptance and forbearance. We may also be able to break the trends by starting the conversation with who ever may be around us when an example arises. We ask others if they can (not necessarily agree to) see this perspective.

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 09:10 AM Edited by therapy30 on Thu 12/04/08 09:12 AM
I feel ignorance is the improved version of procrastination. A procrastinator becomes an ignorant during the course of time. This problem can be rectified though.

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Thu 12/04/08 09:53 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in.

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 09:56 AM Edited by SamaraNJ on Thu 12/04/08 10:01 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't a society the people?

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Thu 12/04/08 10:00 AM Edited by Atlantis75 on Thu 12/04/08 10:01 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash)

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 10:04 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves..

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 10:06 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't a society the people? I agree with you. People are the smallest unit of society. If we want to improve society, every indivual has to improve.

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 10:08 AM
Ah.. when I saw someone with the name 'therapy' as having the latest post in this thread.. I was anxious to see what the post would be...

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 10:12 AM
Ah.. when I saw someone with the name 'therapy' as having the latest post in this thread.. I was anxious to see what the post would be... and what does that imply....

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 10:15 AM
Ah.. when I saw someone with the name 'therapy' as having the latest post in this thread.. I was anxious to see what the post would be... and what does that imply.... ah, actually I see you are a physical therapist... but I still value your opinion...

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Thu 12/04/08 10:15 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast.

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 10:27 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast. People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 10:31 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast. People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it People's fault... to an 'extent'?... what extent.. who's fault is it.. the birds or the cows?... It is all about the people.. people make decisions.. people make laws.. people make choices..

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 10:37 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast. People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it People's fault... to an 'extent'?... what extent.. who's fault is it.. the birds or the cows?... It is all about the people.. people make decisions.. people make laws.. people make choices.. wrong choice.....thats where everything starts

SamaraNJ Joined Fri 08/01/08 Posts: 788	Thu 12/04/08 10:39 AM Edited by SamaraNJ on Thu 12/04/08 10:39 AM
People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it People's fault... to an 'extent'?... what extent.. who's fault is it.. the birds or the cows?... It is all about the people.. people make decisions.. people make laws.. people make choices.. wrong choice.....thats where everything starts Exactly... and people make choices..

Atlantis75 Joined Wed 12/03/08 Posts: 8581	Thu 12/04/08 10:39 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast. People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it People's fault... to an 'extent'?... what extent.. who's fault is it.. the birds or the cows?... It is all about the people.. people make decisions.. people make laws.. people make choices.. Yes, but what if the people are restricted to see what's on the other side - let it be political or educational restrictions - that the people themselves are not allowed to realize (or don't even want to) that they are wrong? What I'm trying to say is, well let me give you an example. It's a common thing I've seen the kids to be thought: -I am beautiful -I am capable -I am a loving person -I can do everything ..not bad and positive reinforcement, but it has its shortcomings. It creates a self-centered person. This person might become really great and successful, but there is a chance this person is also ignorant of others and lacks empathy.

therapy30 Joined Sat 11/15/08 Posts: 1799	Thu 12/04/08 10:58 AM Edited by therapy30 on Thu 12/04/08 11:03 AM
It's the lack of empathy and the lack of unity. It's not the people's fault, it's the society we live in. isn't people that make a society? Yes, but the society behaves the way it is conditioned. (brainwash) Then it is the people's fault.. for not thinking for themselves.. It's another question what is the right/wrong way to think, but anyone can be conditioned to behave a certain way. It depends on the place and the circumstances he/she grows up and lives in. In order to have someone to behave and live and think the "right way" (meaning- empathy, love, unity, caring etc..), you need to have the right environment and the right conditions. Now, if you don't have the right environment, you could be the best parent ever to raise your child the right way, it's not gonna be a success if the rest of the environment is alien or downright hostile to his way. The child (or adult) will try to stick into this environment just for the sake of being part of it - even if it's the wrong environment - or face rejection, to be an outcast. People fault??? yes upto a large extent...but people also have the capability to bring social reform...This is the basis of any democracy...And Social conflict is one factor which prevents it People's fault... to an 'extent'?... what extent.. who's fault is it.. the birds or the cows?... It is all about the people.. people make decisions.. people make laws.. people make choices.. Yes, but what if the people are restricted to see what's on the other side - let it be political or educational restrictions - that the people themselves are not allowed to realize (or don't even want to) that they are wrong? What I'm trying to say is, well let me give you an example. It's a common thing I've seen the kids to be thought: -I am beautiful -I am capable -I am a loving person -I can do everything ..not bad and positive reinforcement, but it has its shortcomings. It creates a self-centered person. This person might become really great and successful, but there is a chance this person is also ignorant of others and lacks empathy. [/quote Just wondering...if people are taught, I am a loving person..how it develops lack of empathy....it implies giving love....lack of empathy develops when they are taught i am always loved by everyone.....