Because I'm from the USA I take the liberty of using America as my basis
for this topic.

Our english language has evolved over the course of some 250 years.
There was a time when the written word, aptly and appropriately applied,
left little question in the mind of any who might be reading it.
Today, we have a whole vocabulary that did not even exist 100 years ago.
Words that have been created due to technology, due to scientific and
medican advances, due to the changing social structures of our society.

What affect on our society do think, if any, these changes in our
vocabulary, may have or may be causing?

I don’t feel that vocabulary itself changes much affect on our society
at all.

I think the way that we communicate has profoundly affected us though.

For example, the Internet has made it possible for many people to
discuss things who would have never communicated with each other before.
Also, topics that used to be considered taboo to speak of in public are
quite common place in today’s conversations.

For example, before the Internet (I actually had an active social life
back then), people didn’t talk openly about topics such as sex. And a
topic like oral sex was considered highly taboo, possibly even kinky,
weird or outright discussing. Today, on the Internet oral sex is talked
about daily. Not only to people view it as commonplace, but it has
actually come to the place where many people (especially the younger
generation) consider it to be an absolute mandatory part of a normal
healthy sexual relationship.

So this wasn’t caused by a chance in the vocabulary, but rather by the
way that people communicate. It’s so much easier to talk about personal
sensitive topics when you’re basically hidden and isolated behind a
computer monitor. If you have a photo up, you don’t need to look the
other people in the eye live and in-person. It’s just no anywhere near
the same as speaking live.

In fact, in most live social settings people STILL don’t talk about
personal intimate topics such as sex very much. So the way we now
communicate has changed things drastically.

But vocabulary itself? I just don’t see where the vocabulary itself has
had much of an impact.

It’s not so much the words we use, it’s simply the topics that we now
discuss. That’s really not a result of a change in vocabulary. We
could have addressed those same topics using previous vocabularies.

Just my thoughts.

Can you suggest any specific words that might have an affect on
society?

So Abra, when you hear a homeboy speaking to a fellow bro about the
skinny in the hood, would you even have a clue what that person was
talking about?

Have you ever listened to rap, a lot of folks I know, hate rap but the
truth is, that is a language that is common and is used by many to
communicate on a daily basis.

Read through some of the posts on this site. How many times we hear
over and over - "I didn't mean to offend, what I meant was."

If language, using actual and real vocabulary in the correct context was
used in these writings, do you really think there would be so much
confusion or misconceptions?

Anyone else want to comment here?

In the absence of inflection and facial expression sometimes things get
misinterpreted.even when people read books they interpret them
differently ie the Bible.
I think the changes in vocab create a generation gap of sorts because
half the time I dont know what the teenagers are talking about .Thank
goodness my 22 yr old can sometimes interpret for me.

When you lack words to describe things and therefore can not describe
ideas or inventions, then society can not benefit from the personal
genius of individuals. Its not just language but language is a part.
With language we communicate, and we are able to develop lifestyles,
philosophies, and technologies. As we build in each of these areas,
other possibilities emerge. A simple example is cement, which the Romans
developed and we still use today. With cement, bricks are more useful.
With bricks and cement buildings can be built. If there are not words to
describe cement of the manufacturing process to create it, then we loose
the modern building. Metallurgy has a similar history and usage. Without
words Steel and in particular different grades of steel would not exist.
Imagine the effect of being unable to describe the characteristics of a
transistor, no internet and we would not be communicating now.

Ok, I see a little better what you’re saying now.

In your OP you had mentioned new words due to new technologies. In
those cases it’s probably not so much the new words that are affecting
society so much as the actually technologies that the words are
referring to. So in that case, it’s not just a change in vocabulary,
but rather an actual change in the things around us in our daily life.
In other words, they aren’t just words, but rather the actual things
that the words refer to.

In the case of Rap lyrics. I think that vernacular vocabulary has
always had an affect on societies. Many people from the north would not
be familiar with a lot of terms and phrases that people in the south
use, and vice versa. Some thing goes for people across the pond (as
they say). Even Americans and Canadians have words and phrases that are
specific to their locals.

So again I don’t see this as a ‘change’ in vocabularies so much as a
change in the way we communicate. We are simply communicating with
people from more distance areas where the vernacular vocabularies are
differnet.

I’m currently writing a book on mathematics. It’s really more of a book
on the philosophy of mathematics. I find that my choice of words is
extremely important. In fact, it’s so important I even feel a need to
include footnotes and appendices devoted to describing precisely what I
mean when I use a particular word.

Many words have multiple meanings and sometimes the context in which a
word is used is not sufficient to clarify which meaning of the word was
actually intended.

Vocabulary alone is not communication. Many times we need to elaborate
on the context of our thoughts to clearly convey what we mean. And even
then it can sometimes be difficult.

But once again, I do see this as having anything to do with how
vocabularies evolve. I think this has always been true and probably
always will be true.

In other words, I don’t thing that anything has been ‘lost’, or even
changed all that much due to a changing vocabulary.

LOL - sorry, I'm, apparently not the one communicating here. My topic
and I can't even get it started on the right foot.

Closer though. Here's the thing, as plain as I can put it. If you ask
1000 young adults from a sampling of every state in the U.S., say
between the ages of 20 to 30 to write a letter explaining what they
believe are the 5 most pressing political issues that need to be
addressed, would you see:

Good writing form
Proper punctuation
All words found in any realiable dictionary
Clear and concise statement
Ability to get points accross in a logical, direct manner

or would you most likely see:
Much slang, words and phrases not common to standard english
Very little or poor use of puntuation
Inabilty to explain precisely in a continuing logical manner
what they wish to convey

On the other hand, give this same group this same letter, written by a
professor of 'whatever'and ask them to read it and then, in written
format to sum up what has been said - do you think most would even
understand the words that have used, enough to write a convincing
summary showing thier understanding?

Ok, let them even proof read it. I would be wise to do
so myself.

*** READING MODE ***

It is not just in the States where this problem exists.

In the UK, I am horrified to see the younger members of my society
unable to spell, unable to use punctuation correctly and even write a
string of lucid text together without using phone text speak.

A classic book to examine this issue would be "Eats, shoots and leaves"
It examines the pathetic state of education in our younger members of
society.
I was lucky, my parents instilled in me a strong sense of the written
word.
I read lots and wrote a lot. (Although the physical act of writing was
abhorrent to me)
Now, there. A classic example. Its 438am, and I could not remember how
to spell "abhorrent" so I looked it up.

You have to take ownership of your education and if you have a genuine
difficulty or shortcoming, then fair enough, but the English language is
so rich that even if your vocabulary is limited, you can still take time
to spell the words you write correctly.

For example, the word "set" has 27 different meanings. A simple word
like that is so diverse in its potential.

There are people, intelligent people on here that have spelling
difficulties and that is not the issue Im driving at. When reading
letters of application or work colleagues' attempts to fill out the
contracts on which we get paid, the number of people who cannot spell
simple words astounds me.

But the language that we use has changed.
Times have changed
A hoe was a gardening implement
Coke was a drink
And crack's what you were doing when telling a joke
Back when a screw was a metal object that joined two bits of wood
together
The wind was all that blew
And when you said I'm down with that, it meant you had the flu.
A blowjob, litterally, is very painful.

What a great thread! Thnaks for starting it Red.

I am 'down with it' (flu and taxes) and will emerge in a couple of days
and can't wait to jump in. Thanks for giving me a reason to triumph over
tax prep and to outlive the flu bug!

Oceans

I hope you recover soon from your case of taxitis Lawry!

Get well from the flu too!

Ok, I’m a little confused I guess.

I was basically responding to your question in the OP, “What affect on
our society do think, if any, these changes in our vocabulary, may have
or may be causing?”

Here you’re asking about a change in our vocabulary.

But now you’re talking about a lack of education and skills in reading,
writing, spelling, and punctuation.

I think I understand better now what you meant when you were referring
to Rap lyrics. People are just starting to make up their own words for
things, only as you say, this isn’t just the artistic freedom of music
writers, but that they are actually using ‘slang languages’ that are
evolving on the streets!

Ok, in that sense I agree!

In fact, it’s really kind of interesting because as these slang words
become more widely used then the people who publish dictionaries
actually add them to the list of “English Language Words”. It’s kind of
ironic because many of those words may actually have their roots in
other languages, etc.

Who defines our words? That’s an interesting question.

But I still think you’re actually addressing two issues simultaneously
here.

One issue is the issue of ignorance. That really has nothing to do with
vocabulary. If people can’t spell, punctuate, or form clear coherent
sentences then it really doesn’t’ matter what ‘vocabulary’ they try to
use, they will still fail to communicate well using written words.

The other issue is education. If a person is well educated in the skill
of writing they could probably communicate quite well using any
vocabulary. Assuming of course that their readers are familiar with the
vocabulary that they are using.

So there’s two differnet things here. One is a question of education
and properly forming sentences, and the other is the question of who’s
vocabulary are you going to use.

I totally agree that education is failing. Although, I hesitate to say
that this is something new. I believe that in the past reading and
writing simply weren’t as prominent and as important as they are today.
So it might not be that people are becoming less educated. It very well
may simply be that modern life is demanding a higher level of education
than before.

Interesting topic Redykeulous

Ok, I have to jump in here on this one with my 2-cents

I do think that our vocabulary has changed a great deal in that my kids,
for example, use words and phrases so totally different than the way I
have always heard and used them. For example:

Sweet no longer means sweet tasting it means they are really impressed
with something or they really like something...

Snap no longer means to break something it means that you have just been
put down majorly, lol!

When they start talking there are times that all I can do is scratch my
head and wonder what happened to the old vernacular that I used growing
up (which by the way was just as foreign to my parents as my kid's is to
me)! Oh well, I guess I have to learn to adapt!

We are all speaking the same base language - English, and yet we are
talking in different ways.

However, our regional dialects (Brit English, US English, Canuck
English) do not dictate our written abilities.

For example, I was taught that when writing the cardinal numbers up to
10, you have to use their respective words; one, two, three, etc.

Also do you precede the word "and" with a comma?

So, do our written works have different rules of application depending
on where we come from?

is it me, or is music the same?

The music I listened to 20 years ago, is now "classic" The music my
parents listened to was revered by my generation, ad infinitum ..

So will this proliferation of rap, hip hop and other types of music
today, be revered in 20 years?

Generations of music producers are changing the way we listen to our
music.

Can you imagine when Beethoven was classed in the same way 50 Cent
(34pence) is!!

At the risk of sounding trending - Sweet, now we be jammin

If you really wanted me to speak a language that we expect others in the
world to adapt to and learn, either for business or for immigration, it
is necessary to have the knowledge and the ability to properly use the
basics of that language.

That great, now we're talking! Make sense?

In Japan it's required that high school students take two years of
"american language" - or English. School in Japan is NOT like school
here. Two years of a language, there, makes them fairly fluent, both in
written and in verbal communication. Yet they come here and can not
communicate, or we go there and they are so happy to have the chance to
use what they have learned, and they cannot understand us. I use the
word us, in terms of most of the younger crowd.

We find it appaling that we expect immigrants to come here and in a
short time speak and read our language. Who are we kidding?

There are always going to be new expressions and street talk and the
like. It's a way that generations find to connect with thier peers.
What I have found, however, is that the common ground, the world view,
of the english language is becoming is something only those outside our
country adhere to. I have many friends of all ages, but I find it often
difficult to "discuss" anything with those between 20 and 30, that
require any more vocabulary than I would expect a 12 year old to have.

I wonder sometimes, what they talk about amongst themselves. From the
time I was about 15 I was have philisophical discussions with my
friends. Sometimes we even had the dictionary to challenge the use of a
particular word, or the definition of a word. Today I am constantly
hearing, words that should be well within thier range being totally
misused, or totally misapplied and worse a sound alike word is used.

I find this all very disconcerting.

I totally agree with your concerns Redykeulous

However, I think it’s not merely a break down of our educational
systems. Although that has a lot to do with it.

But it’s also a breakdown of respect and discipline.

The youth of today are so “freedom oriented” that they feel they should
be able to used words however they like. You know, ‘Freedom of
Individuality’

I’ve even heard young people argue that they can use words anyway like
they like because it’s a ‘free country’.

They don’t seem to see the absurdity in this. If everyone just uses
words to mean whatever they feel like meaning by them then language
breaks down because everyone has a differnet idea about what any
particular words mean. I mean, it just flies in the face of the
purpose of language to being with.

This extreme desire to have individual freedom has gotten out of hand.
I’m all for freedom, but there are some things that just necessary must
be agreed on by all people, and the meaning of words is one of those
things.

There does seem to be an almost spiteful rebellion among the youth
against anything that might even remotely restrict a person’s freedom
anymore. It’s getting out of hand.

And our schools are failing terribly. I actually have the answer to
solve the problems of our school systems. Unfortunately I don’t have
the clout or authority to implement it. It’s a real shame.

It’s totally frustrating to have solutions to problems and not being
able to implement them.

In review, it is thought that this topic deals with two different ideas.
One deals with education, or lack of it and the other is dealing more
with the creative 'street' language.

In an attempt to filter this to one discussion let me rule out the
creative 'street' language. I see little reason to discuss this, but I
do see a reason to keep in mind that it exists. The 'street' languages
are usually regional and short lived, unless of course very public
people, such as teen icons, begin a trend. I don't see this as much of
a threat as my generation did this exact same thing. The words or
phrases that have been 'defined' were done so to relate the word to the
context of the time, for historical purposes, not as a way to introduce
a new word to our daily used english language. Emamples might be -
hippie, yippie and yuppie, all of which are in current dictionaries and
all of which refer to 'the genra' of the 60's and 70's. Teens today
would have to look up those words even though to us, in the day, they
were already real words.

So for now let's concentrate of the education factor. We have a lot of
folks here from all over, have you all seen, witnessed, experienced the
degredation of our english language with regards to vocabulary and
speech as well as the written format with regards to spelling,
punctuation and the use of complex sentances to relay a descriptive and
or infomative message? Or am I just too critical?

I am in total agreement with you about the failure of education in our
society.

From my perspective it has more to do with how we teach things than
another other single factor.

Our educational formalism is archaic!

I complained about it when I was a student all my life from early grade
school right up through college.

I complained about it as a college instructor.

But there’s nothing I can do about it because I don’t have he clout or
finances to change the system.

One of the biggest problems of our schools systems is the
compartmentalized approach to subjects. We go to English class, then
Math class, Then Social Studies, then Science class, etc, etc, etc. We
separate everything into discretely separated things that are
individually boring as hell.

That’s totally the wrong approach to education.

We need to approach the whole thing from a completely differnet
perspective. Students should be encourage from an early age to chose
particular interests. In fact, most kids know from an early age where
their interests lie. Some of them know with absolute certainty that
they aren’t not interested in social sciences, like politics, law,
social worker, historians, etc. Other’s know that they would love to
focus on the physical sciences, like physics, pure mathematics, logic,
or maybe medical or biological fields.

Why force all of these students to study EVERYTHING. It’s utterly
absurd. All we end up doing is having a lot of disinterested students
being bored to death sitting in classes that they aren’t benefiting
from. We’re wasting their valuable time that they could put putting
into the topics that they are really interested in. And we are wasting
taxpayer’s money to force them to sit through these distracting wasteful
classes.

If instead, we could integrate these classes so that the students were
working toward the goals that really interest them things would go so
much better. The students would become much better educated, and be
much more excited about learning instead of bored to death by it.

English classes? Sure, but not isolated stand-alone English classes.
Let the lawyers write about law, let the scientists write about science,
let the artists write poems and songs (in good form) or even write
essays about music. The point is, why make everyone read Moby **** and
do a report on that? That’s BORING!

No wonder kids aren’t learning. They are being put into boxes that they
don’t even want to go into.

I know, I lived through the system and it SUCKED!

Education could be FUN and INTERESTING. It doesn’t need to be the
boring boxed-in crap that it is today.

I am just so frustrated about the whole stupid mess.

It’s not the kids that are the problem, it’s the educational formalism!

Also, they shouldn’t be made to compete so much and instead be
encouraged to work together as a team.

So what if one student is a genius and another had a hard time with
things? They are who they are. What the hell is this crap about trying
to have everyone score high on the same tests? Let people be who they
are.

I wish I could run a school system somewhere just to show how fantastic
it could be. I could take a failing school system and have it turn
around and turn out some really well-educated students who are HAPPY!
In fact, if I were a millionaire I’d do it. Alas I’m poverty-stricken
with no clout or recourses. I’m completely helpless to make a
difference in this world.

All I can do is sit here and watch it go down the tubes.