Topic: Maverick McCain - PART 1
no photo
Mon 10/20/08 08:54 PM
Maverick
A closer look at the life and career of John S. McCain

TIM ****INSON

Posted Oct 16, 2008 7:00 PM

At Fort McNair, an army base located along the Potomac River in the nation's capital, a chance reunion takes place one day between two former POWs. It's the spring of 1974, and Navy commander John Sidney McCain III has returned home from the experience in Hanoi that, according to legend, transformed him from a callow and reckless youth into a serious man of patriotism and purpose. Walking along the grounds at Fort McNair, McCain runs into John Dramesi, an Air Force lieutenant colonel who was also imprisoned and tortured in Vietnam.

McCain is studying at the National War College, a prestigious graduate program he had to pull strings with the Secretary of the Navy to get into. Dramesi is enrolled, on his own merit, at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces in the building next door.

There's a distance between the two men that belies their shared experience in North Vietnam — call it an honor gap. Like many American POWs, McCain broke down under torture and offered a "confession" to his North Vietnamese captors. Dramesi, in contrast, attempted two daring escapes. For the second he was brutalized for a month with daily torture sessions that nearly killed him. His partner in the escape, Lt. Col. Ed Atterberry, didn't survive the mistreatment. But Dramesi never said a disloyal word, and for his heroism was awarded two Air Force Crosses, one of the service's highest distinctions. McCain would later hail him as "one of the toughest guys I've ever met."

On the grounds between the two brick colleges, the chitchat between the scion of four-star admirals and the son of a prizefighter turns to their academic travels; both colleges sponsor a trip abroad for young officers to network with military and political leaders in a distant corner of the globe.

"I'm going to the Middle East," Dramesi says. "Turkey, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran."

"Why are you going to the Middle East?" McCain asks, dismissively.

"It's a place we're probably going to have some problems," Dramesi says."Why? Where are you going to, John?"

"Oh, I'm going to Rio."

"What the hell are you going to Rio for?"

McCain, a married father of three, shrugs.
"I got a better chance of getting laid."

Dramesi, who went on to serve as chief war planner for U.S. Air Forces in Europe and commander of a wing of the Strategic Air Command, was not surprised. "McCain says his life changed while he was in Vietnam, and he is now a different man," Dramesi says today. "But he's still the undisciplined, spoiled brat that he was when he went in."

Dragoness's photo
Mon 10/20/08 09:10 PM
Dramesi is not the only vet to see McCain this way.

I have seen alot of it in the articles I find and read.

madisonman's photo
Tue 10/21/08 04:58 AM
This guy sounds so much like Bush

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Wed 10/22/08 02:35 PM
give mccain some slack. he was just back from 6 years in POW camp and still young.

he's been married to his second wife for 26 years now with no validated reports of infidelity.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 02:37 PM
They're seriously criticizing him for giving a confession after being tortured?

I wonder how long the writer of that article would last.

madisonman's photo
Wed 10/22/08 02:48 PM
Edited by madisonman on Wed 10/22/08 02:48 PM

They're seriously criticizing him for giving a confession after being tortured?

I wonder how long the writer of that article would last.
I think the point is he was no super hero. the man constantly brings up his POW experience while on the campaign trail but not the reality of what he actualy did. Speaking of torture though I do agree anything given up durring torture is worthless so why do we do it?

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 02:59 PM


They're seriously criticizing him for giving a confession after being tortured?

I wonder how long the writer of that article would last.
I think the point is he was no super hero. the man constantly brings up his POW experience while on the campaign trail but not the reality of what he actualy did. Speaking of torture though I do agree anything given up durring torture is worthless so why do we do it?



Yeah, I understand that, but it's still very petty. He's not a bad person or a coward because he confessed while being tortured for years.

And yeah, it is interesting though how McCain is lauded for being tortured while we torture people in Gitmo...

madisonman's photo
Wed 10/22/08 03:03 PM
Well from what I have read about it he wasnt treated all that badly being the son of the Admiral. If you google songbird Mccain you will find alot of interesting articles writen by other POW's about him. The Tokyo Rose type broadcasts he made in captivity are classified so you will not be able to see any transcripts. From what I have read he wasnt tortured for yearss and years and his injuries came from ejecting from his plane and he was fished out of the lake by the civilians he was bombing.

pingpong's photo
Wed 10/22/08 03:12 PM

Well from what I have read about it he wasnt treated all that badly being the son of the Admiral. If you google songbird Mccain you will find alot of interesting articles writen by other POW's about him. The Tokyo Rose type broadcasts he made in captivity are classified so you will not be able to see any transcripts. From what I have read he wasnt tortured for yearss and years and his injuries came from ejecting from his plane and he was fished out of the lake by the civilians he was bombing.


It's possible, but it sounds like swiftboating. I googled it and all I see are blogs and very biased sites. I dunno, I'm not voting for him anyway, so it's not a big deal for me. I'd rather attack him on his views and his connections rather than on whether or not he was imprisoned and tortured or just imprisoned several decades ago.

madisonman's photo
Wed 10/22/08 03:14 PM


Well from what I have read about it he wasnt treated all that badly being the son of the Admiral. If you google songbird Mccain you will find alot of interesting articles writen by other POW's about him. The Tokyo Rose type broadcasts he made in captivity are classified so you will not be able to see any transcripts. From what I have read he wasnt tortured for yearss and years and his injuries came from ejecting from his plane and he was fished out of the lake by the civilians he was bombing.


It's possible, but it sounds like swiftboating. I googled it and all I see are blogs and very biased sites. I dunno, I'm not voting for him anyway, so it's not a big deal for me. I'd rather attack him on his views and his connections rather than on whether or not he was imprisoned and tortured or just imprisoned several decades ago.
U tube has a few first person interviews with some of his co captors and your right it does sound like swift boating. these alagations were first leaked out when Mccain was running against Bush for the republican nomination.

no photo
Wed 10/22/08 09:54 PM

Well from what I have read about it he wasnt treated all that badly being the son of the Admiral. If you google songbird Mccain you will find alot of interesting articles writen by other POW's about him. The Tokyo Rose type broadcasts he made in captivity are classified so you will not be able to see any transcripts. From what I have read he wasnt tortured for yearss and years and his injuries came from ejecting from his plane and he was fished out of the lake by the civilians he was bombing.

Do you know how the Viet Cong knew he was the son of the Admiral?

McCain told them he was, right after his capture.

He did this in an effort to get preferential treatment.

He doesn't talk about that fact too much.

That was a direct violation of the military code of conduct.

no photo
Wed 10/22/08 10:19 PM
I think the point is he was no super hero.


nahhh the point is to slime the opposition. If you can't win on policies you have to try to destroy his reputation

madisonman's photo
Wed 10/22/08 10:24 PM
Edited by madisonman on Wed 10/22/08 10:24 PM

I think the point is he was no super hero.


nahhh the point is to slime the opposition. If you can't win on policies you have to try to destroy his reputation
Bush smeared him back when they were both running for the republican nomination and there is a great deal of truth to these things that happaned to him in Vietnam. Far to many people have come forward with it and gone on record. I suppose it wouldnt matter much to anyon except for the fact he constantly brings it up while trying to sell himself as a viable candidate and frankly its going to be an obama landslide