Community > General Religion Chat

Previous 1 2 Next

Topic: All sin starts with a lie!
arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Sun 09/28/08 01:33 AM
We must first lie to our selves and think it is Ok to not treat another as we want to be treated!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Sun 09/28/08 02:02 AM
All sin starts with religion. If a person isn't religious then it's not a sin to not treat another as we want to be treated. It's just plain stupid.

breathless1 Joined Tue 09/23/08 Posts: 490	Sun 09/28/08 02:04 AM Edited by breathless1 on Sun 09/28/08 02:06 AM
Sure, there's truth to this, why wouldn't there be? Pretty much an oxymoron question to me, "which came first-the chicken or the egg"? Most folks will speak of Karma when they really don't know a darn thing about it because they are not a true Buddhist/Taoist. They just like the catchy sound of it and what they think it means because it brings about what they term "sweet revenge" and wow, doesn't that just sound really cool and take the pressure off of me? One must first be confused or troubled about what is truth for them to commit a sin. Depending upon the lie, some individuals don't even know they are in the throws of a lie until after the fact. We ALL lie to ourselves on many levels, but is this a sin? Or only considered one when it directly affects another? What about when we lie to ourselves and remain in unhealthy situations for the sake of others? Is this a sin and will be condemned as such? How about when we lie to others because we feel we are protecting them? Is this a sin also and should be "punished" as one? Where do we draw the line and pass judgment on one's lying? Are we really suitable to judge another's reasoning for lying? Should one not be forgiven, ever, for treating another less than how they wish to be treated? Are we not all human and fall from grace from time to time? How does one determine the level of sin and disgusting treatment of another? Should that yardstick be held by those that were harmed, or a neutral party, much like a jury of 12 angry men? If anyone in here has never fallen from grace in their lives, treated another less than what they expected to be treated themselves, then please present yourself and allow me to be the one to place the almighty thorny crown upon your head. You certainly deserve it, plus a waltz upon the red carpet and the prize behind door #3.

iam4u Joined Fri 10/13/06 Posts: 30096	Sun 09/28/08 02:28 AM
Sure, there's truth to this, why wouldn't there be? Pretty much an oxymoron question to me, "which came first-the chicken or the egg"? Most folks will speak of Karma when they really don't know a darn thing about it because they are not a true Buddhist/Taoist. They just like the catchy sound of it and what they think it means because it brings about what they term "sweet revenge" and wow, doesn't that just sound really cool and take the pressure off of me? One must first be confused or troubled about what is truth for them to commit a sin. Depending upon the lie, some individuals don't even know they are in the throws of a lie until after the fact. We ALL lie to ourselves on many levels, but is this a sin? Or only considered one when it directly affects another? What about when we lie to ourselves and remain in unhealthy situations for the sake of others? Is this a sin and will be condemned as such? How about when we lie to others because we feel we are protecting them? Is this a sin also and should be "punished" as one? Where do we draw the line and pass judgment on one's lying? Are we really suitable to judge another's reasoning for lying? Should one not be forgiven, ever, for treating another less than how they wish to be treated? Are we not all human and fall from grace from time to time? How does one determine the level of sin and disgusting treatment of another? Should that yardstick be held by those that were harmed, or a neutral party, much like a jury of 12 angry men? If anyone in here has never fallen from grace in their lives, treated another less than what they expected to be treated themselves, then please present yourself and allow me to be the one to place the almighty thorny crown upon your head. You certainly deserve it, plus a waltz upon the red carpet and the prize behind door #3. Bravo,,,no man is without sin. We learn through all of our mistakes and try to find the rights from our past wrongs. To the OP. And to say all sins start with religion, PLEASE

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Sun 09/28/08 05:32 AM
Thier is apperenntly a lie that can be told and not be sin. Abraham lied and said sarah was his sister and not his wife to keep her from being harmed. Yahshua spoke of putting yourself on the line to protect also. So it is questionable. But what is a lie compared to somebodies life/harm if you are risking harm to yourself out of love for others. Shalom...Miles

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Sun 09/28/08 06:44 AM
well, intertesting so far, mostly the teachings form other rather than learning it from th scripture's your selve's, but at least you act like your reading the truth!

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Sun 09/28/08 06:47 AM
Sure, there's truth to this, why wouldn't there be? Pretty much an oxymoron question to me, "which came first-the chicken or the egg"? Most folks will speak of Karma when they really don't know a darn thing about it because they are not a true Buddhist/Taoist. They just like the catchy sound of it and what they think it means because it brings about what they term "sweet revenge" and wow, doesn't that just sound really cool and take the pressure off of me? One must first be confused or troubled about what is truth for them to commit a sin. Depending upon the lie, some individuals don't even know they are in the throws of a lie until after the fact. We ALL lie to ourselves on many levels, but is this a sin? Or only considered one when it directly affects another? What about when we lie to ourselves and remain in unhealthy situations for the sake of others? Is this a sin and will be condemned as such? How about when we lie to others because we feel we are protecting them? Is this a sin also and should be "punished" as one? Where do we draw the line and pass judgment on one's lying? Are we really suitable to judge another's reasoning for lying? Should one not be forgiven, ever, for treating another less than how they wish to be treated? Are we not all human and fall from grace from time to time? How does one determine the level of sin and disgusting treatment of another? Should that yardstick be held by those that were harmed, or a neutral party, much like a jury of 12 angry men? If anyone in here has never fallen from grace in their lives, treated another less than what they expected to be treated themselves, then please present yourself and allow me to be the one to place the almighty thorny crown upon your head. You certainly deserve it, plus a waltz upon the red carpet and the prize behind door #3. Bravo,,,no man is without sin. We learn through all of our mistakes and try to find the rights from our past wrongs. To the OP. And to say all sins start with religion, PLEASE I tried all resources I could think of to find your basis of this statment in the scripture's. I was unable to do so, would you please direct!

splendidlife Joined Fri 03/21/08 Posts: 1171	Sun 09/28/08 09:29 AM
Sure, there's truth to this, why wouldn't there be? Pretty much an oxymoron question to me, "which came first-the chicken or the egg"? Most folks will speak of Karma when they really don't know a darn thing about it because they are not a true Buddhist/Taoist. They just like the catchy sound of it and what they think it means because it brings about what they term "sweet revenge" and wow, doesn't that just sound really cool and take the pressure off of me? One must first be confused or troubled about what is truth for them to commit a sin. Depending upon the lie, some individuals don't even know they are in the throws of a lie until after the fact. We ALL lie to ourselves on many levels, but is this a sin? Or only considered one when it directly affects another? What about when we lie to ourselves and remain in unhealthy situations for the sake of others? Is this a sin and will be condemned as such? How about when we lie to others because we feel we are protecting them? Is this a sin also and should be "punished" as one? Where do we draw the line and pass judgment on one's lying? Are we really suitable to judge another's reasoning for lying? Should one not be forgiven, ever, for treating another less than how they wish to be treated? Are we not all human and fall from grace from time to time? How does one determine the level of sin and disgusting treatment of another? Should that yardstick be held by those that were harmed, or a neutral party, much like a jury of 12 angry men? If anyone in here has never fallen from grace in their lives, treated another less than what they expected to be treated themselves, then please present yourself and allow me to be the one to place the almighty thorny crown upon your head. You certainly deserve it, plus a waltz upon the red carpet and the prize behind door #3. When the first lie occurs... It is to ourselves. We enter this world missing all that was perfect and begin to lie to ourselves almost immediately. We long for that perfect place and pretend that we are perfect (even though to be human is to visit imperfect). We hide from any perceived "bad", believing that there should be no "bad". We teach ourselves this and learn from observing our elders. This is the lie... This is the "sin". To be human is to live in a state of equal parts good and bad. That's the nature of the physical world. This is why wild animals are not ruled by good and bad. They live in equilibrium.

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Sun 09/28/08 09:35 AM
Cool! someone with love in their heart!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Sun 09/28/08 10:34 AM
To the OP. And to say all sins start with religion, PLEASE But it's true Terry. Whether religions are true or not is moot. The very term 'sin' implies shame, guilt, a need for forgiviness. It implies that you've done something wrong. That you've been 'bad'. Why bother with the guilt trip? What's to gain from feeling that you've failed someone? What's to gain from negativity? Why not just recognize that you may not be living up to the best standards that you'd like to live up to and address them positively? Well, dwell on the idea that you've 'committed a sin'? Where is there anything postive in such negative thinking? Sin is all about having failed someone. Being ashamed. Being 'guilty' of doing something wrong. Why even bother will with those negative thoughts? Why not just move on to doing what you know you should be doing without forcing yourself to feel guilty for the mistakes you've made in the past? Sin and guilt come from religion. Knowing that you're not living up to the standards you'd like to live up to comes from your own heart. Just do it! No need to dwell on the idea that you've been a 'failure'. That's just not a positive thought. Why even bring the concept of 'sin' into the picture? Was it truly a 'sin' even in religious terms? Did you always know that it was wrong and did you willfully and purposefully disobey some higher power just to be spiteful? If not, then it probably doesn't qualify as a sin anyway. Sin is supposed to be willful disobedience. Not merely a failure to be perfect all the time. I just don't see the point in adding a negative feeling to something that doesn't need to be negative. Beliving that you've been a 'sinner' can actually bring you down. It can cause you to lose respect for yourself because you feelt that you've been a 'bad' person, or that you've failed your creator. Why put yourself in the doghouse like that? Just focus on what you'd like to improve and let go of the past! Don't cling to the past as a memory of having been a sinner or a failure! Why even think in such terms? You can't go back and change it anyway. All you can affect is your future. So just focus on that and don't lable your past. You wouldn't bother lableing that trash you throw away. Why label your past? Think about what you are now, in this moment. Not about what you were yesterday. Labeling your past is just unnecessary baggage.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Sun 09/28/08 12:17 PM
Thier is apperenntly a lie that can be told and not be sin. Abraham lied and said sarah was his sister and not his wife to keep her from being harmed. Yahshua spoke of putting yourself on the line to protect also. So it is questionable. But what is a lie compared to somebodies life/harm if you are risking harm to yourself out of love for others. Shalom...Miles What are you saying. Do you even understand what I said?

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Mon 09/29/08 12:30 AM
Thier is apperenntly a lie that can be told and not be sin. Abraham lied and said sarah was his sister and not his wife to keep her from being harmed. Yahshua spoke of putting yourself on the line to protect also. So it is questionable. But what is a lie compared to somebodies life/harm if you are risking harm to yourself out of love for others. Shalom...Miles What are you saying. Do you even understand what I said? All who are truley part of the family of God are brothers and sisters!

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Mon 09/29/08 12:31 AM
All sin starts with religion. If a person isn't religious then it's not a sin to not treat another as we want to be treated. It's just plain stupid. There is no such thing as magic!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 09/29/08 12:39 AM Edited by Abracadabra on Mon 09/29/08 12:40 AM
There is no such thing as magic! So you're an atheist? Everyone who believes in a God believes in magic. Gods are magicians! Most people who believe in Gods also believe in ghosts and demons too. In fact, if you believe in Jesus you have to believe in ghosts and demons. Jesus cast out demons. And when he was resurrected he was a ghost. Any religious person who says that there is no such thing as magic clearly has no concept of what magic even is.

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Mon 09/29/08 12:46 AM
There is no such thing as magic! So you're an atheist? Everyone who believes in a God believes in magic. Gods are magicians! Most people who believe in Gods also believe in ghosts and demons too. In fact, if you believe in Jesus you have to believe in ghosts and demons. Jesus cast out demons. And when he was resurrected he was a ghost. Any religious person who says that there is no such thing as magic clearly has no concept of what magic even is. Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, you can call it anything you want, but it is still a deception. That is the whole problem with most organized religions, they deceive to get stuff!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 09/29/08 01:01 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, you can call it anything you want, but it is still a deception. That is the whole problem with most organized religions, they deceive to get stuff! I'm not upset. It's just that to believe in a God is to believe in magic. All a God is, is an all-powerful magician. People just veiw the source of the magic in different ways, and call it different names. The Bible demands that no other magicians be recognized before theirs. Other religions have their own beliefs. Some religions believe that there are many magicians. Some religions believe that we are the magicians. And of course some people think the universe was just a big accident somehow and that there are no such things as magicians. I just tell the truth. I don't know whether there are any magicians or not. If there are any magicians I can only hope that they have some respect for truth. Truth is all I know. And the truth is that I don't know. If truth isn't good enough for the magicians (if they exist) then I guess I'm in big trouble.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 09/29/08 01:01 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, you can call it anything you want, but it is still a deception. That is the whole problem with most organized religions, they deceive to get stuff! I'm not upset. It's just that to believe in a God is to believe in magic. All a God is, is an all-powerful magician. People just veiw the source of the magic in different ways, and call it different names. The Bible demands that no other magicians be recognized before theirs. Other religions have their own beliefs. Some religions believe that there are many magicians. Some religions believe that we are the magicians. And of course some people think the universe was just a big accident somehow and that there are no such things as magicians. I just tell the truth. I don't know whether there are any magicians or not. If there are any magicians I can only hope that they have some respect for truth. Truth is all I know. And the truth is that I don't know. If truth isn't good enough for the magicians (if they exist) then I guess I'm in big trouble.

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Mon 09/29/08 01:06 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to upset you, you can call it anything you want, but it is still a deception. That is the whole problem with most organized religions, they deceive to get stuff! I'm not upset. It's just that to believe in a God is to believe in magic. All a God is, is an all-powerful magician. People just veiw the source of the magic in different ways, and call it different names. The Bible demands that no other magicians be recognized before theirs. Other religions have their own beliefs. Some religions believe that there are many magicians. Some religions believe that we are the magicians. And of course some people think the universe was just a big accident somehow and that there are no such things as magicians. I just tell the truth. I don't know whether there are any magicians or not. If there are any magicians I can only hope that they have some respect for truth. Truth is all I know. And the truth is that I don't know. If truth isn't good enough for the magicians (if they exist) then I guess I'm in big trouble. Weellllll..I hope you are incorrect!

arkdanimal Joined Wed 08/27/08 Posts: 667	Mon 09/29/08 01:09 AM
Actually the bible warns about staying away from anything that presents itself to be magical or of sorcery!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Mon 09/29/08 01:49 AM
Actually the bible warns about staying away from anything that presents itself to be magical or of sorcery! Well, then you should stay away from the Bible by its own proclamation.