we can start fresh here miles my friend on the discussion of what the laws were for and are now -

Ac 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Ga 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. {*}


9 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.



20 >>>>Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:

""""for by the law is the knowledge of sin"""".<<<<



21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:



law brought the knowledge of sin, man is sinful, therefore the law only held the purpose of showing man that he could not keep gods laws, the laws were made hard so thet man could see that they could not be kept, jesus made them even tougher by saying "even if you think them!! you are breaking them. The law served it's purpose that of leading those who believed into the age of grace. Does this mean the laws are abolished? no - it means that now the laws are in ones heart, the life has been transformed, the TRUE laws of god are now lovingly obeyed. And what are those laws? Love thy lord with all thine heart and strength ans soul and love thy neighbor as thyself, Do unto others as you would have them do unto. these are the spiritual laws of god/jesus.the old laws that work upon mans flesh are gone never to return, the laws of the spirit will be forever. shalom

HMMM??? Maybe i'm misunderstanding what your saying as to the law?? maybe you should tell me ""succinctly"" what it is your meaning and then we can discuss this further ok?

Are you meaning that all the levitical and other laws of god/moses should still be obeyed?

If so then should we be stoning people still?

or killing our disobedient children?

where do we draw the line miles?

HMM? are you skiping over this one my friend -

Hold on while I put my "Miles" disquise on.

You hit the nail on the head with this:

""""for by the law is the knowledge of sin"""".

Here is where the line is drawn. The Law is used to determine what sin is - but it is not used in a retributional sense, because the book of Leviticus was written for the tribe of Levi - the priests of the Jewish community. So none of us would be stoning our children. However - this does not demonstrate that the reasons warrenting a stoning are still not recognised as "sin". Jesus paid the penalty for sin - so this pre-empts stoning. However, he did not abolish the law, so it is still wrong to steal. I think that is where the line is drawn.

That sounds like a valid point to me.

"""RECOGNISED""" Are you british??


I'm aware that he did not abolish the law, i stated that he even "strenghened" the law. That is why i wrote the following to Miles:

"" law brought the knowledge of sin, man is sinful, therefore the law only held the purpose of showing man that he could not keep gods laws, the laws were made hard so thet man could see that they could not be kept, jesus made them even tougher by saying "even if you think them!! you are breaking them. The law served it's purpose that of leading those who believed into the age of grace. Does this mean the laws are abolished? no - it means that now the laws are in ones heart, the life has been transformed, the TRUE laws of god are now lovingly obeyed. And what are those laws? Love thy lord with all thine heart and strength ans soul and love thy neighbor as thyself, Do unto others as you would have them do unto. these are the spiritual laws of god/jesus.the old laws that work upon mans flesh are gone never to return, the laws of the spirit will be forever. shalom""


Meaning if the laws have been written on the hearts, that there is no need to "follow" after the old laws of leviticus. Carnality reighs not over the believers, therefore the need for laws that affect the sin nature/carnal nature, have no purpose in a life of spiritual person who's being led by the HS, correct? He is fully aware of what is expected of him [unless a babe in christ] therefore he is FREE of the laws that bring forth those sinful behaviors of carnal man, Correct? you are to be as children, you are to be as adam and eve were before the fall. they were given no list of laws to abide by, they would not have known what they were anyway unless god would have explained it to them, correct?

This is what i'm meaning to get across to miles.

MILES SAID:

If thier is not mind control.. Then why is it that religion will fight tooth and nail to keep thier customs. Even though they know it is not of Yahweh. Yet show them what the Disciples and Yahshua taught and walked and they say well that is done away.. By who's authority is it done away? Is not Yahshua came as our example and yet almost everything he taught and lived is said to of been done away. You can not find anything that says anything has been done away except for the customs that were not of Yahweh. Like hand washings and a sabbath days journey. Nothing of Yahweh has been done away except for sacrifices since we are the New Temple. So if religion goes on and teaches things they know are not to be done.. Then the members follow right along and do them and they will not change thier customs no matter how much proof you can show them. The only reason for this is Brainwashings.. They prefer the commadments of man over the commandments of Yahweh.. You are fullfilling prophecy in doing this but not in a good light... Blessings of Shalom...Miles

If the law came by Jesus, then why aren't you quoting him? These are things that St. Paul said, and HE'S not quoting Jesus, either. yours in Chaos, Scarlett

some of what was on the original post to see it in full go to - Jeanniebeans post: religions, cults, and mind control

QUOTE:

The difference is the law was our schoolmaster. When you go on to learning on a higher plain. You do not forget what the schoolmaster taught you. No now you enhance it but when in doubt you go back to the basics to learn. I worked Electronics for a long time. If I said ohms law does not apply when trying to figure out anything in it. I could not fix nothing because it is all based on ohms law.. So is the NT based on The OT, Not done away. Doing away with it is why nobody knows what the book says and we have about 1000 different denominations just here in the USA. Stay with the basic and you will not go wrong..Shalom...Miles



Was not the law given to teach and show Israel that they could not obey it of there own volition? Did not god put it into being to teach them they could never obey the laws? If the laws were given to show Israel they could never keep them on their own, then why would one hold on to them in an age of grace that states they are not necessary anymore when one puts their faith in christ? Is christ not the answer to the law? Is it not he that stands before the father as our shield? are not god's ""spiritual laws"" was written on the hearts of jesus' true followers? And what are these spiritual laws written on the heart? surely not the laws of leviticus. The laws of the spirit are those written on the heart - what are those miles?
Edited by tribo on Tue 09/23/08 05:36 PM
Quote | Reply
Milesoftheusa

Joined Fri 10/27/06
Posts: 1988
Tue 09/23/08 05:36 PMEx 24:1-8

Now He said to Moses, "Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and worship from afar. 2 And Moses alone shall come near the Lord, but they shall not come near; nor shall the people go up with him."

3 So Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said,"All the words which the Lord has said we will do." 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young men of the children of Israel, who offered burnt offerings and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen to the Lord. 6 And Moses took half the blood and put it in basins, and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the Lord has said we will do, and be obedient." 8 And Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words."
NKJV

The law was never meant to be kept out of neseccity.

Ps 53 speaks of this. Other places before Yahshua says offerings and sacrafice I do not desire. But a broken and contrite heart.

Yahweh is the same Yesterday , today and tommorrow.

Yahshua said as long as Heaven and Earth are here the Law would be also.

He said he brought nothing new.

As you said he brought what the Law points to of the heart. Do not let unrightousness enter your heart and thier is no law then.

What is a law if you never break it to you.

But we do break them and as such fall under them as they show us what sin is.

Our schoolmaster we are told is the law. Should we get rid of the instructions on how to live a Holy life?

If we do then we are in chaos. Knowbody knows what is right or what is wrong.

Isa. put it that in these days good would be called evil and evil would be called good.

Is this not what happens when we have so many claiming thier way is right?

If thier way is right and your way is wrong then somebody is being judged.

We are under grace. What does this mean? A pardon. Not a liscence to sin.

What criminal who is given a pardon from thier prison sentence goes out and committs the same act and does not loose his pardon?

Grace is a liscence to sin to the religions of the world who claim Yahshua as Messiah.

By doing this they trample as Hebrews says on the very blood of Yahshua that showed grace or a pardon of thier sins.

Sins that are done unwittingly have always been forgiven. Not intentional sin.

If we sin with full knowledge that this is breaking the law. Their is no more sacrafice for sin.

Can we pick and choose?

apperently the world of religion says we can. Thats why I am right and you are wrong. I say sprinkle with water but you say immerse in water is how you are baptised for the remmission of sin.

We can not have it both ways.

The sabbath. About every religion that follow the scriptures say the 10 commandments should be kept.

really which ones? You pick and choose thier also. What fits your agenda and makes you happy, It feels right Religion.

Where in the scriptures does it say the Sabbath is no more the 7th day of the week?

Where does it say it is the 1st day of the week?

It is not thier for either. But yet that is how we feel about the matter and we are under Grace you know so he does not mind.

Have you not read Rev 12 and 19? What are the saints doing?

Are they not called the saints because they keep the commandments of Yahweh?

If this is the case then does not logic tell you that those not being called saints are not keeping the commandments of Yahweh?

It is craziness plain and simple. Yet Yahweh says I will give to those who do not have a Heart for me a strong delusion that they will believe the Lie. Satan and the man of sin the Beast. You are already following. He is alive and well anmd by your refusal to believe and test the word you call him Elohim. The mighty one of this world who the world loves.

The foreshadowing of the sabbath and feast what is this or what is it telling us?

A shadow is put out from anything that is in the light.

So if the sabbath and feast which are done away we are told are. Then what is the shadow for?

Is it not telling us that the light is to come from out from the shadow?

Is this not telling us in Col 2:14 that brethern you have been hid like Yahweh did to jacob as a Hen spreads out her wings to Shadow them?

The apple of his eye. When we come out from the shadow that has been. The feasts and sabbath which includes the law will come out as malachi has siad it would?


Eliyah will turn the hearts of the children back.

Moshe will hold up his staff and uphold the Law. Not throwing down the tabelets as he did when the children lost sight.


But as he did as he taught them the law and Yahweh being with him nothing could come against him.


The 2 witnesses My Elohim is Yahweh and Yahweh's law in your heart you are unstoppable. If you will listen.

The measuring rod and the Plummitt that measures his people. how can you be measured if you have no rod?

Blessings of Hope...Miles

Okay, so if I kill someone, and I am sent to court, I should just tell them that Jesus already paid for my sins so I should not be punished.

hummmmm?

I like your logic JB.. I wish logic was what believers used.. Blessings..Miles

HMM? is right - this is how the cultist see it BB - jesus takes away your sin that seperates you from god [since god can't be in the presence of sin] if you ask for forgiveness he will give it - jesus - then he acts as an advocate so when satan the accuser stands before god and says - see what miles did!! - jesus steps up and as says in miles defence father miles is in me - ang god looks at satan and replies - case dismissed!!

im sure if i got this wrong eljay will chime in on it, but thats what i remember.

Sooooo - this is in accord with sin that seperates you from god, not justice [or injustice] you may recieve in this life/world,here - you pay the penalty for laws broken, in the next life all your sins are not remembered if your in christ. all the father see's is jesus and his body - you are part of that body if your a believer, so god does not look upon you as an individual, he sees only his son who took all sin upon himself as the sacrificial lamb of god.

but for pagans - especially you - there is no hope!! -

Right on point.

British? No. Native Massachusetts - Canadian ancestry. We just have our own language "up he-yah"

Yup - got this one right too.

However - it should be noted that it also says:
"God is not mocked - as ye reap, so shall ye sow."

Though one's sin may be forgiven - they are not free from the consequences thereof. In other words - the sin is forgiven, not dismissed.

(John 1:17) For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

(John 5:46) For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

(John 7:19) Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

(John 7:22) Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

(John 8:5) Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

(and so on)

Jesus followed the law of Moses, and didn't argue against it at all.

(Mark 1:44) And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, show thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

(Mark 7:10) For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death...

Jesus had a problem with hypocrites, and those who hid their weakness and dishonesty with the law, and used the law to commit misdeeds. Jesus seemed an enthusiastic proponent and advocate of Mosaic law--in its spirit, not to the letter--and not a rebel against it.

Of course, I may not be entirely understanding this argument, since it started somewhere else. xoxo

You aree right.He uplifted the law. He slammed though the Pharasees for using to hold down the people. math..23 has always beeen very interesting to me. As he said something at the beginning of the chapter that is very profound.

This is a little strange.

So with this post I am going to leave it alone.

What happened I am not sure. I am not going to fight it though.

I was posting math 23 and that is the way it should be at the end of this post.

Yet it is not .

When I posted or pasted the scriptures from Math 23:1-12

The screen flashed and as i was rereading and Replacing Yahshua's name as you know I always do. The screnn flashed several times and what you see how Math. is Quoted in the middle instead of the end is what i found after i was done and Re Reading.

I would look at it real hard as I know i will be as soon as i post.

may The Spirit of Truth Indweel in all Those Who Seek His Will...Blessings of Shalom...Miles

Ps. I did not know I posted 2 x either