Topic: Our founding fathers | |
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Food for thought.
One of the most common statements from the "Religious Right" is that they want this country to "return to the Christian principles on which it was founded". However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once. The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea of divine authority. The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" (see below). This was not an idle statement, meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams. None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular. Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one. If the Christian Right Extremists wish to return this country to its beginnings, so be it... because it was a climate of Freethought. The Founders were students of the European Enlightenment. Half a century after the establishment of the United States, clergymen complained that no president up to that date had been a Christian. In a sermon that was reported in newspapers, Episcopal minister Bird Wilson of Albany, New York, protested in October 1831: "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." The attitude of the age was one of enlightened reason, tolerance, and free thought. The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country. |
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& Make it Samuel Adams'
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why do you fear God ?...
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Just because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state doesn't mean that people fear God.
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Oh GOD !!...I thought you'd be asleep...lol...it seems I'm just not used to all of this hatred of whats right with America...maybe I'm nothing more than just a good Catholic boy...
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Oh GOD !!...I thought you'd be asleep...lol...it seems I'm just not used to all of this hatred of whats right with America...maybe I'm nothing more than just a good Catholic boy... Nope. Just got online. I don't have hatred. Just want the best for my country. Surprise! I'll be at church in the morning. |
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Oh GOD !!...I thought you'd be asleep...lol...it seems I'm just not used to all of this hatred of whats right with America...maybe I'm nothing more than just a good Catholic boy... |
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I do not fear God.
I fear the insanity men do in the name of God. I fear those who presume to speak for God. |
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I do not fear God. I fear the insanity men do in the name of God. I fear those who presume to speak for God. I agree 100%. |
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why do you fear God ?... why do you,? |
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With this liberal assertation that 'god' is not part of the original founding fathers guidance on our governemnt...
Constant reminders show falseness in that when another enters the fray that holds to faith... They are attacked on that faith... Forked tounges anyone. |
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Giocamo is a catholic. That is why he fears God. Old school Catholics are all about fear.
As a recovering catholic I can speak to that mindset. Allow me this personal story please? It's Sunday morning and I am thinking about my catholic up-bringing. After my grandmother was widowed some of my family members decided she shouldn't be alone and we rotated staying with her every few weeks. She attended Mass Wednesdays and Sundays and we attended with her. By this time my faith in the church was nearly non-existent but I attended out of respect for her. One morning, up at four-thirty, I dragged my feet about going and crawled back into bed. Grandma stood beside my bed and asked why I wasn't up. Laying on my side, facing away from her,I tried to beg off. She called my name in a way I'd never heard her speak and fixed me with a stare. "Wyn Ann, deciding to not go to church is a mortal sin" At that moment I feared, not the wrath of God or even for my immortal soul. I feared the wrath of my Grandmother! That gentle quiet, hard working, devout woman...I miss her. |
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My point has nothing to do with fear or not to fear of God.
My point is that if you believe that God does not belong within government.... Stop attacking some one running for office that has faith. else you appear to be false. you either believe and live by that belief... or you change course as the wind hits the jib. |
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I am not attacking anyone who has faith.
I damned sure won't sit still and allow anyone to impose their faith on the rest of us. Again.... I do not fear God. I fear the insanity men do in the name of God. I fear those who presume to speak for God. Check histories record for the horrors committed in gods name if you wonder why I feel this way. |
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The founders wrote often about how their faith gave them moral strength to do the right things. However, they wrote in the seperation of church and state, because the founders knew what kinds of horrible things came out of church controled governments. Anyone ever read about the atrocities committed by papal rome?
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