think is sin the same as what God sees as sin?

THAT DEPENDS ON HOW STRONGLY YOU BELIEVE IN THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.IF YOU DO BEIEVE STRONGLY ITS A NO BRAINER.IT TEACHES LIERS,FORNICATORS, DRUNKS ECTS WONT INHERIT THE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.THE COOL THING IS IT TEACHES WE CANT EARN OUR WAY AND WE ALL SIN.BUT CHRIST IS TRUE AND FAITHFULL TO HIS WORD AND FORGIVES.BUT THE KEY IS SRIVE TO SIN NO MORE

You are correct however, the key is what Jesus told us. Too many times a person disagrees with something and they declare it as sin.

I CAN ONLY SPEAK ON HOW I BELIEVE.WHICH IS CHRIST DIDNT COME THE FIRST TIME TO JUDGE . THE SECOND TIME IS WHEN HE WILL DEFINTALY BE THE FINAL JUDGE.I TAKE ALL OF THE NEW TESTIMENT AS INSPIERED WORD OF GOD.I CANT HAVE A FAITH IN CHRIST WITHOUT IT,IT WOULD BE NICE TO TAKE ONLY WHAT JESUS SAID ABOUT SIN.BUT THEN HE WAS VERRY EXPLICITE.AND WAS AGAINST SIN. HE DIDNT CONDONE SIN.HE CONDEMED THE SELF RIGHTIOUS CHURCH LEADERS OF THE THE TIME WHO PUT THEMSLVES AS BEING SORT OF GOD LIKE BY JUDGING THE PEOPLE AND THEY TO WERE SINFULL AS COULD BE LIKE ALL OF US IS COMPARED TO CHRIST WHO WAS WITHOUT BLEMISH.KEEP SEEKING THE TRUETH ITS ALL THERE

I totally agree with you

Sin is a word that is defined only within religious doctrine. Outside of that doctrine, the word has no meaning.

Therefore when you speak the word "sin" you are speaking within the confines of religious doctrine.

For people who do not live under the authority of religious doctrine the word "sin" is meaningless and a moot point.

I personally do not subscribe to religious doctrine that uses the word "sin" therefore I cannot be called a "sinner."

The term "sinner" in Christianity and other religions boils down to mean "disobedience" to the God described in the Bible.

God's law, according to the Bible, states that "the wages of sin is death.

The Bible also states that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Therefore it follows, that anyone who places themselves under the authority of this religious doctrine is condemned to death (as sinners) and considered to be on "death row" in God's eyes.

The only way to get a pardon is to accept the sacrifice of an innocent man to this God. This innocent man, the Bible claims, is Jesus who they claim is the son of God.

The Bible also claims that Jesus sacrificed himself willingly for the sins of mankind.

But it has been stated that you are not "saved" (or pardoned) unless you accept this sacrifice and give your soul to Jesus and his father and serve them for eternity where you will be "well taken care of ."

That is my understanding of the word "sin."

Jeanniebean

A lot of people seem to be under the belief that the doctrine actually says this, but they would be hard-pressed to convince me.

In fact, according to the Bible it's impossible to "save" yourself. Therefore these Christians who think they have saved themselves by merely accepting Jesus Christ as their savior are in for a rude awakening!

Jesus himself said, that there will be many who will claim to know him but he will deny them.

So these people who think they have "saved" themsleves simply by accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord better thing again, because he may not have accepted them as his pets.

According to the doctrine only he can make that decision. So it's actually absurd for any Christian to claim to have been "saved". They won't know until judgment day, and they just might piss their pants when they discover that Jesus doesn't agree with their assessment.

I wonder what they will do then?

Will they still claim to love him anyway as they are being cast into the pits of hell?

I've heard so many Christians claim that their love for Jesus is unconditional. But why would they love someone who would betray them?

All human love is conditional.

The only God that truly offers unconditional love is the God described by pantheism. That God (by its very definition) cannot reject anyone. That's just the way it is.

That's the way the pantheistic God created creation. So that no one could be lost. Nary a soul.

The pantheistic idea of "god" is the only picture of god that I know of that truly represents unconditional love.

Any judgmental God puts absolute conditions on its love. You either serve it or suffer dire consequences.

Kind of like Hitler was only worse because a judgmental God's wrath is eternal.

I say this... like all laws man made I would say that the definition of sin changes through out time to coincide with the general religious consensus. (Killing is good when its in gods name. Imposing on the free will of others is even better when its in gods name.)

Living a completely sinful life is extremely hard if not impossible. It was set up for this reason as to always keep you in check. There is even a back door... STRIVE to be sinful and accept jesus and thats good enough. Personally thats bull****. What are all the tests for? why did god allow sin to happen? He didn't. Laws and commandments where instilled to protect the weaker from the hardships of Darwinism. Protecting us from each other. If god really made us imperfect (adam and eve sinned= imperfect design) why would he expect perfection? That doesn't seem like a very realistic expectation. "Sin" is human nature and fighting it does nothing but get people to lose touch with themselves. In my opinion most christians wouldn't go to heaven anyways. Religion is so twisted with hypocrisy we can't even get major religions to agree on all their so called facts. That is why we have different sects within almost every denomination. (my father is a pastor and I went to private schooling all the way up to college, so believe me I know a thing or two.)

Well that could be because outside of religious doctrine, the word "sin" is pointless and moot, as "sin" means to obey God. To "obey god" you have to pick a god, pick a religion and then ask those people what sin is and what god's laws are.



I agree. That is bulls.h.i.t. But if you do not place yourself under the authority of some religious doctrine you are not obliged to worry and fret about "sin." So you can consider yourself a good person, follow your own rules and lead your life as best you know how. Nobody better call you a sinner because you are not under their authority or their religious doctrine's authority. If they do call you a sinner, then they are poking their nose into your personal business and life.




I agree. I encourage people to eliminate the word "sin" from their vocabulary and free themselves from imposed authority from some religious doctrine if they are not subscribing to it.

Cheers

thats the point of religion...its following the words of man...not a god...

This is truth. Absolute truth. We know this to be true.

I grew up in a Free Methodists family. Some of my Uncles were preachers. All of my family were very devout believers and church-goers.

They weren't obnxious about it at all. They didn't proselytize to other people and they didn't preace fire and brimstone. On the contrary they were very meek about their religion. They also did not shun people who believe in other faiths.

So I didn't see a lot of hyprocysy in my imediate family. They did appear to walk the walk of Jesus. However, even so, as sincere as they were they still had disagreements about religious issues. They were never heated arguments, but rather polite intellectual discussions.

None the less, I was truly interested in understanding the Bible myself. So I would ask sincere questions about things that seemed to be inconsistent or in need of explanation. What I found was that even the preachers could not agree on the answers. And quite often the answer was an open admission that even they are troubled by the question at hand and they just 'have faith' that God has an answer.

That's where they started to lose me. The ultimate truth of any bible-based religion is just that. It's based on the bible. Period. It has no other basis as much as people would love to pretend that it does.

For me, the truly rude awakening for a believer is quite simple. If they can think objectively at all (which most cannot), all they need to do is look at the book as a non-believer. In other words, abandon their belief for just long enough to ask a serious question:

"If you didn't know the Bible was true, would you want it to be true?"

Would you want to believe that mankind fell from grace from God and that we are all born into that wretched situation needing to beg for forgiveness from our creator?

Would you want to believe that our creator is at war with a fallen demon who is out to get us?

Would you want to believe that our created had to send his only begotten son to die on a cross to pay for your wretched misbehavior?

Would you want to have to go to an eternal heaven to serve under a God that you had so shamefully disgraced?

Would you want that to be what reality is truly about?

If not, and there is no rational reason to beleive in the Bible, then why the hell are people believing in it on pure faith?

Why would anyone want to have faith that such a terrible story is true?

This is truly what I'll never understand about people who are so vehement about supporting it. Why are they so anxious to want to be responsible for the crucifixion of Christ?

That's truly what it amounts to. It amounts to wanting to believe that they are responsible for God having to send his son to be brutally excuted to pay for their arrogant disobedience of God.

Why would anyone want to believe in such a story if they didn't have to believe it?

I don't think any better news could ever strike my ears than to hear that the Bible indeed is a totally fabricated lie.

What a beautiful thing that would be!

That would mean that mankind never fell from grace from his creator. It would mean that wasn't necessary for our creator to have his son nailed to a pole so he could forgive us of our arrogant disobedience. It would meant that there is no evil boogieman that is out to get us.

It would be the most beautiful thing I could imagine. To know that that story is a lie and has always been a lie would be the greatest reason to celebrate!

Mankind would never have a better reason to break out the champagne!

No one in their right might should want the biblical myth to be true unless they have absolutely no other choice. Why people bother to believe in it on faith alone is far beyond me. They must truly be confused individuals is all I can say.

Yep, you were raised by a preacher alright.

Those religious cliches are going to be echoing through the caverens of your mind for the rest of your natural life. I fully sympathize and understand.

Lol. He raised me to question the world and rely on my discernment which have been the most important lessons of my life. He never made me go to church or anything like that. He always pushed to help me find answers instead of giving them to me and me being satisfied. I wish there were more "preachers" like my dad to be honest, but hey where he leaves off I may pick up one day.

Well we know what God says sin is. Other want to re-invent His words to fit their own doings.

I'm just wondering where one wants to go with this???

Inquiring minds wanna know.

It's important to know to equate sin with right & wrong ways of doing things can lead to life or death... consequences are very real no matter how unimportant some think they are.

So what is sin? Sin would be anything that takes us down a path of sorrows & destruction. It comes to kill, steal & destroy. So now? If anyone thinks that horrible then they might want to rethink how they live their lives...yu think?


BTW...if you believe God of the Bible as a loving Father & also believe that satan is the father of lies & comes to kill steal & destroy...who would you be inclined to follow?

I truly wanted to become a preacher myself. Truly I did. Not because I liked churches.

That was far from the case. But I liked the idea of teaching people good morals and to believe in something.

Unfortunately I the more I studied the religion the less I could believe in it myself. I finally had to face the fact that I can't possibly teach something that I don't honestly believe in myself.

It's truly a shame really. What I thought stood for good and positive things ultimately was revealed to me to be a totally unfounded myth that I could not seriously ask anyone to believe with any honesty.

If it had truly been about great morals that would have been great. Unfortunately it isn't about having great morals at all.

So ultimately it's no loss.