From another thread,....



In the other thread we were discussing the quest of science (and phiolosphers) to discover the answers to questions of our physical world, as well as answers to the true nature of our essence.

Debbie is suggesting that when we die and go to heaven all questions will be answered.

This bring up yet another question,... Would that even be desirable? Would it be heaven to know everything?



Clearly even if God did wave a magic wand, he waved it to create the physical universe which has PROPERTIES. Science is the study of those properties.

As a scientist I've often had philosopher ask me,. "What would you do if you discovered that all of life is just a dream and there is no such things as a 'physical world' thus making the study of physics a completely farce and waste of time".

My answer is simple. Even if life is a dream that doesn't negate science. All science is, is the study of the rules of the dream. Clearly if life is just a dream it's falling rules. There are rules about how we must dream at least to some extent. We all agree that we live on a ball of dirt that spins on its axis close to a flaming ball of gas and that causes our days and nights. Even if it's a dream, we all seem to be having the same dream and that dream apparently has rules. It's those rules that scientists are trying to figure out.

Scientists aren't saying that this is necessarily the true nature of our essence. All they are really saying is that for the time being, this appears to be all we can know so let's see if we can figure out the rules of the dream. Maybe we can use that information to make the dream better (assuming that politicians don't first use the information to destroy us).



What would heaven be like? Will we instantly know everything in heaven?

Would that be good or bad? If we already knew everything there would be nothing more to learn. So no school in heaven! Is that good or bad? Will scientist all be sitting around frowning because they no longer have any puzzles to figure out? What will be the mental stimulus in heaven if everyone knows everything?

What would there even be to talk about? No one could tell anyone anything they don't already know! (sounds like some Earthlings already huh? )

What about other things, like playing musical instruments? Writing and understanding music? Painting beautiful pictures? Writing wonderful interesting stories?

Will everyone instantly know how to do all those things? When I go to heaven will I be able to play the piano like Beethoven? Who would I 'show off' my talents to if everyone can play the piano equally well?

It wouldn't make much sense performing for people if everyone in the audience can play the same pieces your playing equally as well as you can play it.

What would there be to do if all answers to everything were instantly known to everyone in heaven and everyone had the same abilities?

And if what about physical appearance? Will everyone appear the same as they were when on earth? Will ugly people still be ugly in heaven? Will obese people still be obese? I ask these question seriously because many Christians have often said that they will see what Jesus 'really looks like' when they get to Heaven. So they must be thinking that we all retain whatever physical appearance that we had in our earthy lives.



I've often thought about this (and have even had very lucid dreams about it). Dreams that some people might call 'visions' if they had experienced them because they were indeed so lucid.

In my dreams the spirit world is indeed like Debbie suggests. Every spirit knows everything. In fact, all spirits are telepathic and no spirit can hide his or her thoughts from any other spirit. You can ignore incoming thoughts if you like. But you can't hide yours from other spirits. It's like, as a human, you can close your eyes to not look at things but that doesn't make you disappear to other people. All spirits know everything. All spirits are completely egalitarian. All spirits can do everything. There is nothing that any sprit can do that any other spirit can't do. It's entirely egalitarian. Also no spirit can force any other spirit to do anything that spirit doesn't want to do. No spirit need 'help' or 'assistance' with anything. It's impossible to be in a 'bad' or 'undesirable' situation in the spirit world. No spirit has a 'particular' physical body. The natural state of a spirit is to be an orb of light. However, they can become manifest into any physical body they choose. And they achieve by simply thinking about it. Everything is done via thought. All creation is done via imagination.

That's the dream (or vision) that I have of our true essence the spirit world. I'm not claiming that it's true. I'm just saying that I have had this dream quite vividly and when I did have it, it was profoundly real. As I say, some people might be tempted to call it a 'vision'. I won't go there. It was just a lucid dream and that's all I can say about it.

Well, what's the attraction to this spirit world? Is this 'heaven'. What would spirits want to do in this so-called heaven?

WELL,...

In my dream what they do is they become incarnated into LIMITED realities. In fact, as soon as I arrive at this spirit world in my dream a spirit approaches me. She is an orb of light. However, she then transforms into a quite young human girl. I even get a profound sense that she had reached deep into my subconscious to extract that imagine and become that little girl for 'my sake'. She has a little "book'. It's a fairytale book. She wants me to become incarnated into the 'book' with her. She opens the cover of the book to reveal the first page which shows a beautiful tropical land that looks much like life on Earth.

In intuitively understand that everything is a 'vision' her physical body, the book, etc. It's all being created by her imagination. She wants me to join her in this imagination and help her to imagine it. She reaches out toward me to take my hand. When I put my hand out to take hers I notice that it is the hand of a little boy. She takes my hand and we 'fly' or 'float' into this picture on the page of the book. Just like Wendy few with Peter Pan.

As approach the page of the book, the boundaries of the page disappear and we 'land' softly on the beach of this tropical island. The wind blowing against our skin, birds squawking in the air, the sound of surf crashing on the beach, and the pressure of the ground pressing against my feet are as real as real can be. We are in the incarnation. We are in the fairytale, and we begin to play it out.

That's how I imagine reality to be like. The spirit world is just like Debbie suggests. In the spirit world we know everything. But that would be boring as hell to spend eternity just floating around in empty space gawking at a bunch of spirits that know precisely what you know.

So what spirits do is become incarnated into 'physical' worlds where they have 'limited' knowledge, they have limited access to each other's thoughts. And they have limited abilities.

Incarnation is what spirits DO!

We are in a physical incarnation and all people can think about is how to get the hell out of it.

But when they die and discover their true spiritual essence, the very first thing they are going to want to do is become incarnated again into a whole new reality.

~~~

Just my thoughts, for whatever they are wroth. I'm not saying this is the way things are. I'm just saying that it could very well be the way things are.

Any idea of an eternal supposedly 'perfect' heaven seems unreasonable to me because spending eternity in what we humans might think is 'perfection' truly would be boring as hell.

We often say that 'ignorance is bliss', maybe this came from the spirit world. It's much more fun non-knowing than it would be to know everything. If you know everything, then there isn't anything left to discover that you don't already know. It would be boring as hell.

Enjoy your incarnation!

Yewl be back!

My heaven would not be too much different than my life is already. I think for me heaven would be that I would no longer see the ugliness of man around me. Hatred, prejudice, social ills, power struggles, etc... All people would be accepting of others and with this type of respect the power struggles of the world would die.

Eternal peace and you took the rest of the words right out of my mouth. So much hatred in the world today. Would love to see that end.

I used to think that way too. I think it would need to be a little more than just getting rid of the power struggles and evils of men.

Even if you got rid of all that, you'd still have disease, broken bones and bodies from accidents. You'd still have hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, droughts, etc.

You'd still have mosquitoes and snakes that bite. You'd still have the 'evils' of a dog-eat-dog animals kindom all around you. Those will slip into center stage if mankind ever does evolve to a state of complete benevolence. How do you get animals, and natural disasters to be 'nice'? How do you tell mosquitoes and virues to stop biting you?

hell has all the good bands

the meek will inherit
A- the clouds
B- the earth
c- an abandoned coal mine in virginia
ans B heaven will be a renewed earth, free of the poisons we have used, free of sin, ran by Gods unchanging laws and a "willing to participate" population. A perfect society based on gods origional plan which we have strayed so far from leading us to fall.... again.

living in a place like "heaven" where everybody was good & proper seems a bit boring no?

So true!!!

In my vision of the 'spirit world' there is neither heaven or nor hell. The spirit world that I descirbed is all there is.

Other than the incarnations that they and indulge in.

That's what they do. They just keep reincarnating. There isn't anything else to do.

What else would there be to do?

That's the real question of Heaven. If heaven is supposed to be so "perfect" then what do spirits do that so good?

After all, if they are totally enjoying themselves, then how could they claim that it's "perfect". Who defines "perfect"?

If you're not enjoying yourself would you say that you in a "perfect" place? I think not.

And then 'perfection' becomes SUBJECTIVE.

What good is a 'perfect' heaven to YOU if YOU don't think it's so perfect????

That's the question. If heaven is 'perfect' it has to be deemed to be 'perfect' by everyone whos in it. Otherwise it would be imperfect for that reason alone.

I would not consider changing the natural world at all. Nature although deadly is what gives us life also. It is the balance of life. I remember feeling the way you wrote when I became sick, that somehow it was not fair but it is the cycle of life. I got sick for a reason, it was my life cycle. I learned a life time of things from my illness and still do today. Death is as much a part of life. How can we learn to enjoy life if we know it never ends?

mabe, if your part of the problem.

This is what I've been taught too. But it was my understanding that this would only be for 1000 years. It wasn't supposed to be an eternal "heaven"

At least that's my understanding. I could be wrong, I'm not exactly sure where this comes from in the bible. It might be an interesting read. Can you point to where it actaully says this? I imagine it's a bit ambiguous just like everything else in the Bible.

No ill-intent meant. It's just that things do tend to be vague, if they weren't all believers in the Bible would be in completely agreement with the details, which they never are.

Well, I'll be the first to agree that getting rid of evil-minded humans would certain be a vast improvement.

I'll gladly take that one!!!

But I still think that all the other nasty things in life would then just jump to center stage.

If you were a mother and your young daughter was in a terrible fire and become grossly deformed and horrifically injured, but remained alive to live as a charred but seriously damged and incapacitated poor soul. I'm sure you would soon be suggesting that things aren't quite as "heavenly" as you'd truly like them to be.

Can't blame it all on man. Nature herself has seriously unpleasant things to offer.

P.S. Sorry for the gross image I constructed, but I felt I needed to make a truly unpleasant point that all 'evil' is not the fault of man.

I think that all depends on what you consider to be "good & proper".

You can't look at high-strung hypocrites and think of their demands as being what constititues "good & proper".

For example, would causal sex be 'improper' in heaven?

Why should it be? If heaven is truly "perfect" you should be able to have sex with someone without any fear of disease or impregnating them. In fact, would it even be possible to impregnate someone in heaven???? Are new souls born in heaven???

Interesting question.

So that all comes down to how you define "good and proper".

From my point of view, "Good and Proper" simply means not to do anything to anyone with intent to harm, belittle, or hurt them in anyway.

If that's the definition of "good and proper" then having casusual sex with a consentual partner would be "good and proper"

In other words, you can't take the JUDGEMENTS passed by hypocritical religious fundmantalists to define 'good and proper'.

Just define it as not harming another and you're set to go.

Would there be anything boring about living in a world where no one intentionally harms or takes avantage of another?

point taken why should you not be able to indulge in the things that make you happy, so long as they don't harm others? that's one of the satanic statements y'know

Abra:



Wow, Abra!

That's vividly lush!

I too am of the thought that it doesn't need to be labeled a "vision"... I see similar possibility and... so have others.... The part about the little girl and the tropical beach reminds me of a scene in the Jodie Foster Movie, "Contact". Changing bodies has been a recurring dream of mine... Many major themes in "Being John Malcovich" remind me of my recurring dreams.

Yes, I agree w/ Deb that we have all knowledge when we "go to Heaven". I think we always have it, but forget within each incarnation. We have it when we're born, but haven't yet developed the ability to communicate it to be understood by older people. As we get older and move further away from the time of full memory, we get amnesia in order to experience this realm as humans. I would imagine that I'll instantly know the purpose of forgetting, just as soon as I remember. Tee Hee!

its 1000 yrs based on the same calendar/ clock that the six day creation thing happened. i think anyway...

This is as good as it gets. Enjoy it while you can for we are in heaven now

The only thing I know for sure is that no place would be heaven without Splendid Life.

you make your own heaven or hell here on earth
upon death, well, you find that out then

but there's no little red guy with a pitchfork
and no pearly gates...

sorry.

As long as there's Splendid Life, who care's about anything else?