There is right and there is wrong . If you worship an ox or a man ....etc , there is nothing left to respect and it is as stupid as it can be .
When you take reality and good logic all humans advance .There is a difference between respect for the sake of respect and the useless respect when dealing with social issues of great importance to all .

Hmmm....maybe I didn't word it correctly.

It is human weakness to be closed minded about different opinions and not accept people for whom they are.

It is also a human weakness when we think that we are better than other people.

I see a FANTABULOUS reason for the term "useless respect" right here. However, I prefer to agree to disagree with people and listen to them. I might learn something. Except in this case.

There is no such thing as useless respect.

just another judgement - jmo

Oh Fran I immediately thought that too, and read some prior posting history. I changed my mind....

You say that there is right and there is wrong. What is right and wrong to you could be different to somebody else. They may think that you are wrong and they are right.

Well my threads usually end after I post the initial topic. But I do stick with it. I stick with threads I post in, probably why I've got a secret identity as "the thread killer." AH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

These type threads take days to get off the ground sometimes.

If you want to participate in a thread that works, DON'T post in religion and current events threads....

Unfortunately current events and religion affect all people directly or indirectly as laws and so forth are derived from some religions and current events .

another penile thought.

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

A person's religion is of no concern to you. A person's actions may be. If the person's actions don't violate your rights, then you have no say on that person's actions or religion.

" Amen"

If you truly believe that, then you must feel that it's useless to share an opinion, yet you just did.

People are affected by what other's have to say, even if they don't realize it themselves.

Disagreements may seem like "violence" at time, but no blood has been shed, no bodies buried.

The pen is mightier than the sword because it can indeed change a mind without destroying a body.

Everyone who desperately wants to defend religion will view the OP of this thread as a hostile attack against them. Maybe they'll even see it as an insult of sorts. After all, the gentleman who wrote the OP states, "Religion is a human weakness". That certainly sounds like an accusation that religious people are weak.

I'm sure that Paul didn't mean to insult anyone. He didn't mean to accuse religious people of being weak. He's just frustrated because people can't see why religions can be unhealthy.

And yes, judgemental religions can be unhealthy for humanity.

They are unhealthy for the very simple reason that they perpetuated unwarranted and unsubstantiated bigoted superstitions. It is especially unhealthy when a particular religion claims that it has the only word of God and that everyone must bow down and worship its doctrine.

That's an extremely unhealthy religion with respect to humanity as a whole.

Individuals who believe in that religion might think that it's healthy for them personally, but in truth it isn't even healthy for individuals to believe that way. It's clearly not healthy for humanity to have various religions that are at odds with each other. That can only lead to bigotry, war, and political unrest.

When a religion is 'out to save the world' by converting everyone to believe only in its doctrine, then it has truly become a disease of the mind and spirit of humanity. It has become nothing more bigotry based on false piety. And yes, it is necessarily based on false piety because even the follows of that religion ultimately confess that their belief is based on nothing more than mere faith. A mere guess that a particular mythology might be right.

How sad is the idea of religion in the first place?

How many religious people would live virtuous lives if they didn't believe there is a God who will either punish them if they are bad, or reward them if they are good?

How many religious people would be virtuous if they knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that there is no God?

If they can't be virtuous on their own merit without a God, then their religious righteousness is false righteousness. All they would truly be are evil people who are restraining themselves out of fear of punishment and lust for a possible gift of everlasting life.

How sad is that?

If a person would make a poor atheist, then they are truly a pathetic theist.

If a God truly exists, how much more pleased would he be with a naturally well-behaved atheist, than with a believer who is struggling to resist his lusting temptation to do bad things?

Surely God would be more pleased with the naturally virtuous person than with a person who is merely attempting to avoid punishment and earn a reward that he doesn't truly deserve. A person who would instantly resort to evil ways if he discovered that God, in fact, does not exist! A person who has no true righteousness at all.

A judgmental religion has nothing to offer the individual other than a threat of punishment if they don't accept it, and a bribe of everlasting life if they do accept it. It's a religion about a God who bribes people to be good.

You might say, "Hey if it works for some people why knock it?"

The answer to that question is simple. The religion as a whole causes people to be bigoted and judgmental of others. It causes them to denounce everyone who doesn't believe in the religion to be out of grace with God. That's judgmental bigotry against everyone who doesn't believe in the religion.

That's not a healthy mindset for people to have of their non-believing neighbors. Atheists are condemned to being 'out of grace' with God at best, or outright wicked rebels at the worst! The religion also denounces other religious people as worshiping false Gods. It's an extremely judgmental bigoted mindset that can only lead to hostility between the various different believers (or non-believers) of particular unproven and unjustified ancient mythologies.

Judgmental religions that proclaim that their doctrine is the word of a jealous judgmental God who is the ultimately authority over everyone, are indeed nothing more than institutions of global bigotry and political insanity.

That my friends is not healthy for humanity as a whole.

If people want to believe in a God they need to find a way to do it that doesn't cause them to judge others who believe differently to be 'out of grace' with God. Therein lies the sickness of judgmental religions.

I personally believe in a truly benevolent creator. My faith in that creator is so complete that I don't need to define it. All I need to realize is that my creator is truly righteous and fair beyond human comprehension. There is no need for other people to believe like me. It doesn't matter what they believe. They will have to deal with their creator on their own terms. Not on my terms. If they believe there is no God, no sweat, I'm sure God doesn't mind. God sees beyond our beliefs. God knows our spirit.

Judgmental religions amount to nothing more than an excuse for bigoty.

Let everyone be peaceful with the maker of their soul.

No need to tell another which religion to extol.

Listen to the music of your soul:

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/peace.htm

I don't know abra, re-read your post and replace the word "religion" with "government." They are both nothing more than just an organized group designed to keep a set of people in power. And they both do this by praying upon the poor.

I'll be the first to agree with that. Historically religions were the governments. People today truly don't realize this. We have freedom of religion today. We are also more 'global'. But that I mean that all individuals have access to knowing what's going on all around the globe. Back in the days when religions reigned supreme people seldom knew more than what was going on in their own local geographical region. They simply weren't exposed to other ideas like we are today.

It was considered blasphemous to even suggest that the word of "God" might not be true. A person would be charged to be a heretic. At the very best they would be shunned by their society and not given any respect for their thoughts. At worse they would be killed if they didn't recant their position!

They really did burn witches at the stake, and murder heathens (just like the Bible directs them to do!). In fact, they were still stoning sinners to death even in Jesus day according to the gospels.

Religions were indeed the ultimate authority.

People also don't realize that tithes were more like taxes. It wasn't a choice to freely give only if you wanted to support the church. It was mandatory. You paid your tithes based on how wealthy you were, just like income tax today. And it was enforced. You didn't choose to go to church. If you didn't show up people would come looking for you and charge you to be a heretic if you didn't have a really good excuse for not having attended.

People today view religion as a "personal choice", a "personal walk with God".

Well, that's great. If they would leave it at that, or confine it to that, then they're wouldn't be a problem.

In fact, they could even "share" that with other people if they want to. But to "share" something you merely tell someone about it, and if they aren't interested, or don't believe it then you drop it. You don't start telling them that if they refuse to accept it they are rejecting God.

That's where they step over the line.

People can believe that Jesus Christ died to pay for their Sins and that he is the only way they can get into heaven all they want. That's fine with me.

But as soon as they start suggesting that I'm rejecting God if I don't believe the same things, then they have crossed over the line. They are then accusing me of rejecting God. They are judging me to be out of grace with God. They are suggesting that I'm a "heretic" with respect to God.

It's that judgment that is the ultimately bigotry.

If they could learn to drop that judgment of non-believers and accept that non-believers can indeed be in grace with God in their own way, then no one would have a problem with the religion.

Who cares what other people believe as long as they don't use it to judge others by?

It's the judgmental bigotry that it gives rise to that makes it unhealthy.

I realize that all people who call themselves "Christians" don't feel that way.

But let's face it, that's not the idea behind the religion as a whole. The idea behind the religion as a whole is that if you reject the bible as the word of God then you are rejecting God. If you refuse to recognize that Jesus is the son of God, then you are denying Jesus.

Those things simply aren't true. To refuse to recognize these stories as being true is not the same as rejecting the deities behind them. On the contrary, you'd have to believe the stories are true before you could reject the deities behind them.

To fail to recognize that a mythology is the word of the God that it claims to be about, is not the same as rejecting that God. That would be like saying that everyone is rejecting the authority of Zeus. They aren't rejecting his authority. They just don't believe that he exists.

It can't be a sin to not believe something. That makes no sense.

I change my mind every day.

Well, not really, but I have multiple personalities, and none of them agree with me.

(Who was that talking anyway?)

"I don't know."

"Oh shut up."

"Mind your own business."

"You think you know everything."

"You're off the topic of this thread."

"I am not!"

"Yes you are."

(Who are all these people?)

(AND HE THINKS HE'S DISTURBED.)

I have to disagree with this, noone is naturally virteous imho. People as a general behave based on social pressures and laws..out of fear of punishment. How many people would go rob a bank just to be set for life if there was no punishment in place? How many people would steal their neighbors car just because it looked cool if there was no punishment in place? The answer is most everyone..especially if it was considered socially acceptable. Even when we are young, we have a tendencies not wanting to share..we have to be taught that...so I don't honestly beleive anyone is 'naturally' virteous. I
That being said, humans are however 'naturally' pridefull and this unfortunatly has a way of working into religion as well...even though it is ofter very contridictory with the someone is supposed to live based on thier particular religion. Peoples OWN selfish amibitions often interfere with the good that religion does. I'm a christian(i know a bad word, because i'm supposed to be bigoted-judgmental and on a mission to convert and shove my faith down everyone's throat) But that is unfortunatly just a stereo-type that has been created because somewhere down the line the message got lost. We are supposed to be accepting of everyone, live the way we say we believe, and become ourselves like servants to others. Jesus even ate with the tax collectors...which was a social no-no in those days. I personally listen to everyones point of view, I will tell them mine if they ask and i'll give the reasons i PERSONALLY believe the way i do. After that it is not up to me to 'force-convert' anyone, I just try to live my life the way i beleive i'm supposed to based on my particular faith, even though i don't always succeeed. But i'm not out to call anyone weak, or blind, or this or that, or try to start arguments. But i will listen with an open mind, and not say you are the problem with society...and i agree my faith MAY be wrong...but that is the beauty of faith...i have faith that it isn't. I have my reasons for beleiving, just as you have your reasons for not beleiving. To you I will say have a nice day and God Bless.

I just sat down in front of the mirror the other day and had a conversation with myself.

It went something like this,...


Me: "So you think you have all the answers?"

Myself: "I never said that."

I: "I think we should take Jeanniebean up on that trip to Hawaii."

Me: "Well, you ought to know something by now you're almost 60 years old!"

Myself: "Do I look that old?"

I: "Of course I don't. I don't look at day over 20,... err,... well, maybe 30."

Me: "So are we any closer to knowing truth?"

Myself: "You are the truth. You can't get any closer to truth than that."

I: "No. I'm the truth. You're just myself."

Me: "Well, I truly enjoy being me, that's all I know."

I: "I enjoy being me too."

Myself: "You guys are nuts."

I: "I think we should teach Jeannie bean how to play plumbing flutes."

Me: "Me too."

Myself: "You guys do whatever you want. I'll decide for myself."

Me: "Sing us a song."

Myself: "You've got to write one first."

I: "I can do that."

at this whole thread

fire can warm you
fire can burn
a comfort for many
some never will learn

what human create their own perception..........