Began with seeing that futurist were wrong long before any of Lindsey's predictions proved false. but one thing that really made me take notice was not something Jesus spoke but of the one recounting his thoughts in john CHPT: 2 vs, 23 and especially 24,25

How did the writer know what jesus was thinking? i thought to myself? did he state these things somewhere else to this writer or the apostles?
Since this was supposed to be john the apostle was he privy to the very mind of christ?

Upon studying this the words took on another meaning much deeper to me than that question one of who man was at his core, what did jesus know of man that would prompt one to write of this in this way?

this was the beginning of my exodus out of religion and belief in the book.

lol! spiritual principles work for me in my life whether I believe or I don't... and it also doesn't matter if i read it from a book or the back or a can of pringles.

that said, I believe that the Truth cannot be spoken, nor written I presume.

good luck with your journey

I don't understand your difficulty in this. (Not because I expect you to be clear about what the scripture says - but because you haven't stated what you concluded.) You know that the Christian premise is that John wrote as he was inspired to by the Holy Spirit. Also - it is not beyond Jesus to have spoken on this matter - it is something John would have already been aware of in the song written by Moses in Deuteronomy 31: 30 thru Deut 32.

So what is the truth about these verses you came to percieve?

truth's of the verses became a secondary point. What it lead me to is a search for who man was and is at his core - particularly me. If i was to understand others i would first have to know myself what and who i was at my core. Only then could i truly understand others. past that i then wrote a book called trueness of being which explains the rest, should be out in 2012/13 if i have the time to put towards it.

I see. So - did you find man essentially "good" or "evil" at his core?

man is egocentric at his core, selfish. everything he does is for selfish resons, even that which is seen as good. there is no escaping that, in my opinion.

Tell me what you mean by selfish.

I think human beings start out very selfish because they perceive that they are at the very center of their world. Everything really does revolve around the observer, and the observer in human is trapped within his illusion of body and mind.

Some have said that "hu" means "god." If so, human means "godman."

JB

man is made as all else with a distinct survival instinct which he acts upon as situation's face him on a daily moment by moment basis. Those things that he does are prime self-survival scenarios no matter whether good or bad as seen by society. This to me is what makes us so interesting. And also accounts for all the ways we act or reason on life's mysteries and knowns alike.

Man's survival instinct is nothing special. It is simply part of the complex DNA programing. It is the natural animal instinct and works automatically even if the man is less conscious of self. (Have you ever had a conversation with a person who is sleep walking?)

What makes mankind interesting and different is not programing or survival instinct, but awareness of the I AM and the Will that has the ability to operate above or in spite of that programing.

JB

are you talking of this I AM state being something you have personally reached? or just theoretically speaking? Are you speaking from expierience or of belief? what i speak of is from expierience, it can be proven - for all mankind is the same - may i have your proof please if you have such, personal proof ,not what you've read and believe, thnx baby

(I am trying to decide what level we are communicating on. Hummmm...)

Survival instinct originates from the very core of I AM who desires to be. From that, I AM manifests itself forth.

It is natural and necessary to manifest a creature (human or otherwise) fully equipped with this survival instinct which is in the form of information (like programs) that react automatically for the benefit of the creature who has not yet become conscious enough of its desire to be (exist and live) or has the ability to consciously control all of its inner operation. (Beating of the heart, immune system, self defensive reactions, instincts for survival, cellular memory etc.) These are automatic programs.

One does not have to "personally reach" a state of I AM. It is a natural state (that lies dormant perhaps)as we identify with the creature (body)as the self.

I don't know what you mean by "all mankind is the same" but in many aspects of the creature (mankind) and its programing, the answer would be yes but some have slightly different DNA attributes to pick and choose from as they manifest the body.

The body is manifested by the self from the substance provided it within the reality matrix.

My only personal proof is my personal experience of self outside of the creature (body). I realize that I am not the body. I am both the observer and the observed.

JB

ah, then you have forgotten or not read my other post, i am talking of constantly we cannot reach the I AM (selfish realization) in a true sense while we wear this flesh. You are going beyond based on a personal experience outside the entrapment of this body, we are speaking of two different planes, i try to solve core problems from the state of what is and then move on from there, you try to solve something beyond are understanding as we know now. you may be right - but only time will tell. I on the other hand know I'm correct as to what i know of the state of mankind both presently and through out history.
Does that mean there is not more to know? of course not, and i as you am always open to other or different thinking, but for me to accept it it has to be provable.

If to you, the "I AM" is the prime and origial creative source, then you are correct. This cannot be reached while in the physical body. It is my opinion that it cannot be reached in while in the higher self body either, but this is my opinion. I may be wrong. (But my picture of the self is probably nothing like you imagine.)

These being spiritual matters, I don't see how you can claim that you can prove anything. Are you saying that you can prove the existence or non-existence of God or original prime source?

JB

If to you, the "I AM" is the prime and original creative source, then you are correct. This cannot be reached while in the physical body. It is my opinion that it cannot be reached while in the higher self body either, but this is just my opinion. I may be wrong. (But my picture of the self is probably nothing like you imagine.)

These being spiritual matters, I don't see how you can claim that you can prove anything. Are you saying that you can prove the existence or non-existence of God or original prime source?

JB

i surely cannot "prove" anything outside of my own existence G, but what i can prove is that we are all the same as to what we are at our core, which is selfish good or bad. Past that everything is open for discussion and debate to me. tell me more of your take on the self that i cannot imagine? i have a pretty good imagination - hahaha let me here more of your take on this please thnx.

What do you consider to be "your own existence?"

What do you imagine we are at our "core?"

What is self to you?

Why do you require proof?

What do you require proof of?

To whom do you wish to prove what?

JB

ah,ah,ah not fair i asked you to explain your take first - and dont get cute with a did not did to comeback - hahahaha

I can't do that because I don't know where you are.

If you identify with the creature (the body) and if you consider that to be "your existence" then you may call that "self."

This means that where you are is in third density thinking.

If that is where you are all I can say is that the self is not the body.

Neither is the self the original creative source.

The self exists outside of space time, and yet it dwells partly in the creature.

JB

yes i'm talking of who were are in this flesh. but - that doesnot mean i do not think there is more to us than that. we have a sprit or energy for sure, what that essence is i donot know as to how it will be in another time space or parralel universe or other dimensions which i also believe in to but have no proof for.

so talk to me in terms of what you think we are at our core in this life/dimension as to what i state we are ok? thnx.

I cannot draw a line between what I am and this body because I do not identify with this body as a whole self, only in part.

However, I can talk a little of the creature (or body) in terms of its limitations and programs.

It is a part of me that was manifested with substance and information available and is a biological pre-programed machine that is an environment for my personal self and consciousness.

A machine that is custom designed for me by me.

JB