Definition from Chambers English Dictionary
Atheism (noun) the belief that there is no god

Definition from Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism /aythi-iz’m/ (noun) the belief that God does not exist.

... and so on.

There are a couple of dictionary examples, but in the world of definitions, the common determination of atheist is anyone who simply lacks a belief in gods.

This definition would include babies, agnostics, and people who have not come to a conclusion about the existence of gods.

These atheists are usually motivated to redefine the word “atheist” because they want to enlarge the definition of “atheist” to include as many people as possible, or because they perceive it to be an advantage in debates with theists.

Unfortunately, some of these people have used lies and distortions to support their opinions, and some have made extremely ignorant and grossly incorrect statements that may reflect badly on all atheists.

I think there are three categories of religious humans (if you can find more then lets see if we can fit them in ...

Group A believes that gods do not exist (so called atheists).

Group B neither believes that at least one god exists nor do they believe that gods do not exist. This would include agnostics, babies, and the undecided.

Group C believes that at least one god exists (so called theists).

It is generally agreed that the people in group A are atheists and the people in group C are not.

The main point of disagreement is whether the people in group B are considered atheists or not.

The people who want a “lack of belief” definition would define group B as atheists while most people, and all reputable dictionaries, do not.

Many of the people who are pushing a “lack of belief” definition call group A “strong atheists” and call group B “weak atheists.

Another problem with a “lack of belief” definition is that it is not accepted by the vast majority of people.

As a non-believer the argument most believers come up with is "You must believe in atheism, so therefore you cannot be an atheist"

I also don’t know of any people who are agnostic or undecided about the existence of God who call themselves atheists.

The lack of public acceptance for a “lack of belief” definition of “atheism” is reflected in the fact that no reputable dictionary has a “lack of belief” definition for either “atheism” or “atheist”.

It is important, however, to note the difference between the strong and weak atheist positions.

"Weak atheism" is simple skepticism; disbelief in the existence of God.

"Strong atheism" is an explicitly held belief that God does not exist.

Please do not fall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists."

There is a qualitative difference in the "strong" and "weak" positions; it's not just a matter of degree.

Some atheists believe in the nonexistence of all Gods; others limit their atheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making flat-out denials.

But I would like to add to all those believers (not just the Christians or the Muslims, but the Wiccans, Pagans, and even the Scientologists (if we have any here)) amongst us, that there is an alternative definition for atheism

I think it should be defined as a "rejection of theism due to lack of trust in any form of belief system."

It is easy to pick holes in any religion.

Christianity's Bible has a great many contradictions.
The Koran has some incredibly intolerant utterings
.. and the Torah, being the founding root of both of these, sets the tone for all that follow it.

Im not wise enough to debate religion on the same level as some of our more esteemed non-believers & believers, but I do know that I have no struggle in determining that my lack of belief comes about because of no consistancy in any religious tome.

I just dont trust anything that has one uttering on one page and then is contradicted on another.
I certainly dont trust anything that asks me to kill someone because they dont believe the same as me.

So, in my atheistic world, I make up my own moral rules.
These are socially acceptable to the majority of people I meet in the real world.

I have been lucky to have lived the majority of my life out of a christian environment. Lucky in terms of exposure and experience, as opposed to escaping christianity.

Islam and Buddhism have been around me for much longer than Christianity has and I see the futility of all three of them, plus a whole heap more
.

some say agnostic theist are people who are unsure of a god but hope there is one.

then we have non religous spiritual who don't believe in religion but feel there is something spiritual

What confuses me is that they both sound the same. So what is it?


I have changed my profile back and forth to non religous to agnostic many times.

I want to be spiritual in my own way, but not blindly believe in a faith without some evidence or proof.

Then many would also say I am making it way to difficult for myself and should just blindly follow like everyone else.

In the long run I am a soul searcher I guess.

Now from a historical view I like the studies of religion and mythology. Not to the point where one believes in it as of the terms faith, but to actually see what humankind had to endure at the time. This I believe gives us a better understanding of why or how we as a people have evolved.


Then everyone I speak to has had somekind of spiritual experience. For some reason I have never had one. Because I haven't had one many say because you don't follow the scriptures, or you don't surrender yourself to someone or something.

In the long run I will just see it all as a historical event in the end. That seems to be fine with me.

John

I have always wondered how many atheists, agnostics, etc., if they are conscious at the moment of their death, pray.

belushi:

Christianity's Bible has a great many contradictions.
The Koran has some incredibly intolerant uttering
.. and the Torah, being the founding root of both of these, sets the tone for all that follow it.

Im not wise enough to debate religion on the same level as some of our more esteemed non-believers & believers, but I do know that I have no struggle in determining that my lack of belief comes about because of no consistency in any religious tome.



Hi B:

I'm not sure I'm understanding you totally? You give 2 types of atheism as examples? that sounds like what the other's you speak of also do? sectioning belief's into categories?If you've read some of my talks on atheism here, you know i think that as you to a degree feel the only atheist are those who have absolutely NO concept of god to even be able to discuss or recognize what god is, such as babies or the mentally impaired or such others. To recognize what god or a god is means an understanding of that concept.

if you understand it then to me you are not really atheist. as your definition states "Belief" that there is no god or "belief" that god does not exist. to believe in something you first have to come to some conclusion that their is such a thing to believe in is incorrect, correct?

if so then that definition bases it's statement on first having to "believe" that this thing you don't believe in exist correct? if that's the case then your belief would have to stem from some kind of knowledge, of what this thing consist of to make such a conclusion that you don't believe in it.

If you've reached that point, then your no longer a true atheist anymore but an agnostic. I use the term "AGNOTHEIST" to denote such as that. my word, just my take on this subject.

I would say this is what you primarily are but i don't like to put people in boxes or label, not even myself, so i will take what you say as what you are.

I call myself a truist, meaning i only look for the truth in thing's i delve into, that could be considered a type of Agnotheist also if it were not my belief that "some type" of creative force existed.

I believe that i did not create myself there for i am not this creative force, it is something past or beyond me, i give it know manlike qualities or anything else past its ability to bring forth that material needed to bring substance as we know it into existence. That's why i don't really think I'm Agnotheistic.

No, Im afraid I have to disagree.
Because I understand what a god is supposed to be, does not make me a believer.
To be flippant (I dont intend to degrade the debate, but this kind of works the same way)
I understand Santa Claus, but that doesnt mean I leave him/her/it milk and cake on 25th December.

Players of fantasy games discuss all kinds of strange creatures, from orcs and goblins to titans and minotaurs. They don't exist either.


Nope, I do not believe that god exists and I reject the idea that any religion has a basis in fact.
I believe that man (or woman) creates religion in his own mind.
Thereby making a choice.
As with all choices there are options.
Option A - Beleive
Option B - dont believe, but leave an open mind
Option C - Dont believe based on the investigative efforts that have been made.

We have all read Greek mythology stories. The majority of us love the stories about Heracles and his labours.

There is an enormous amount of evidentiary proof that Hercles existed, but that doesnt mean he was a superhero.

But do we believe that he could go to Hell, capture the dog of hell and bring him back?
I doubt it.
But the ancient Greeks did.

But now they dont. Now they have a different view of Christianity to the mainstream.

Everyone is agnostic whether they confess this to themselves or not.

No one knows whether or not a god or spiritual world even exists. And that's the bottom line.

All faith-based religions are necessarily agnostic because the mere fact that they are faith-based is a confession that they don't know.

Same thing holds for atheists. They can't know with absolute certainty that there is no God so they too are ulimatley agnostic whether they admit it to themselves or not.

If a God does exist, he/she/it would be most pleased with the agnostics because those are the only people who are truly honest.

Surely God would be most please with the people who are most honest.

But then you would have to debate whether honesty is a human virtue or a god-given one.

god might be shy and wouldnt want people believing in him/her/it.
So therefore the atheists would get the vote for not shouting about it.

Don't really concern myself over definitions. All I know is that I believe. And that has made all the difference.

What difference?

Belushi


Since when does science pose a lone, question to which they find a complete and simple lone answer? What you would attempt to reason out is not a complete thought. For example:
“What is an Atheist?” In the English language we see a word, but in it’s original form it was two words, something akin to A Theist. It meant, very basically, the reverse of Theist. So now we must know “What is a Theist?” This gets into single and multiple gods and or goddesses. But even that isn’t enough, because TODAY the word Atheist is rarely even considered a defense against mythological (say Roman and Greek gods and goddesses) no. The word Atheist is used most often with some basic idea of the definition of god.

Are you catching the drift here – we can not just define a word that will ultimately fit ALL based on one simple concept. “What is an Atheist?”


TRIBO


Tribo has gotten much closer to exemplifying the idea that I put forth above. There is, however, still an error in logic. I’ll continue along this vein in a moment.

Abra


Abra uses similar logic to Tribo and comes up with another answer. Rather than effecting a change to the atheist definition, the biggest change has its effect on the theist(s).

There are degrees of correctness all around, but no one has asked all the questions yet.

At what depth does an atheist consider ‘creationism’?

Here is where the questions need to begin not with a belief in god (s) and goddesses.

Tribo suggests that atheists simply reject any current or previous mythologies and the surrounding definitions, characteristics, attributes or reasons that believers use as testimony. But because they have been exposed to, and understand, the concepts of those mythologies, atheists can no longer say they don’t ‘believe’ but rather, belong in another category.

But Tribo, atheism is ‘rejection’ it has been qualified by the rejector based on the knowledge available. That is the reverse or opposite of a theist – that's what it meant to be atheist.

Abra brings up the question that makes all people agnostic – that being; no amount of knowledge has proven, one way or another, that a creator, a god, gods or goddesses exist or even that there is any controlling force the has been guiding the universe since it’s conception.

Therein, lies the greatest question of all – “At what depth does an atheist consider ‘creationism”?

Is there, or has there, ever in history been a god, gods or goddesses who where NOT responsible for the creation and guidance of this universe?

As an atheist, I do not believe in any theory that puts a number on or gender specificatin to god(s), by current definition, over universal creation and as a continuing guiding force in the universe.

I am neither LOOKING for such a thing or questioning the existence of such a thing – both of these puts me well out of the bounds of being agnostic.

I will admit that, in so far as the human can conceive, there must have been, at some point, a creative force at work, for this universe to have been put into motion.

I neither believe the answer to that will be found in my lifetime, nor do I care to seek it out. It is interesting to consider, philosophically, but that’s about it. A far cry from ‘questioning’ the greatest preponderance of all – “what and how did it all start?”

In the mean time – getting back to Belushi
[So, in my atheistic world, I make up my own moral rules.
These are socially acceptable to the majority of people I meet in the real world.

Making up ones’ own morals, is the way of those with whom morals and ethics have been cultivated through experience. Using logic and with some idea that, as humans, we have a bond to one another, and that bond demands some level of respect, we forge that which serves us, both as individuals, and society as a whole on the best of all levels.

Maybe, in the end, that's what matters the most when defining an atheist, not what they believe, or don’t, but what guides their boundaries of their moral actions.

All I know is if there is a 1/10000000th chance of there being a real hell, I wont be an atheist!

Why do you think prayers are necessary ?.
are prayers going to change anything ?.
I see prayers as a waste of time since they make no difference to anyone .