to break the tablets of the law that the eyes look thru smash the heart that once followed, but life and love for fellow mankind emerges from the ruble of hopes built on fear, and a fearless world free to love can come forth......peace

Which did you do, when you posted this thread?

why do you think I wrote in parenthesis: as a lot of US do? instead of: "a lot of THEM DO"
You see, I'm a living proof that salvation can't be a matter just a prayer or a recognition of Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior. I have done it. I truely believe Jesus is my Lord and my God.
However, most of the times I have attitudes which go against my Lord which if I don't correct, I will be damn, and I will go to hell.
Which confirms the intention of this thread a simple prayer in front of the assembly does not grant salvation.
It's the combination of faith, and fruits produced by this faith which are my actions towards my brothers and sisters.
Because at the very end when I'm face to face with my Lord, He will be telling me I was hungry, and you didn't feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn't give me to drink, etc.

Walker...I understand that , as a catholic,you believe in salvation as a process( meaning ... working out your own salvation).


But I also know you are NOT referring to ETERNAL SALVATION,that comes from GOD ALONE, when we accept Jessu as Lord.
(That free gift of Grace, that is not earned by works).

Walker... you have already accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord and Saviour...which means you ARE ALREADY SAVED, and defintely going to heaven, no doubts Walker.

Again Walker..Salavation is a free gift of grace..which came when you believed and recieved Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.
And Nothing can take that Salvation away from you .

BUT Walker.....I think a lot of people misunderstand catholics to mean that.....working OUT your salvation (salvation is a process) ,to be the same as Eternal Salvation..when it is NOT!!!

Let me repeat.....Working out your salvation ( salvation is a process)is NOT the same as ETERNAL SALVATION , which comes from God alone , when you accepted Jesus into your heart.
And THAT is where a lot of people are misunderstanding catholics!!!

All christians are to work out their salvation, but again, this is NOT NOT REFERRING TO ETERNAL SALVATION!!!

Here is an article(see below) that will explain better.


Also, one more thng before I share the article....

Walker, I understand what you are saying about people thinking they just need to confess Jessu as Lord, and they are automatically saved.
WRONG!!!!

Walker....they have to MEAN it in their HEARTS when they CONFESS Jesus with their mouths , in order to be saved..it cannot just be Lip service only.
That is NOT salvation.

But only God knows the heart of every man, Walker..and only God knows if man meant it in his heart...and if he did, there will be fruits showing in his life, as EVIDENCE.

But when people confess Jesus as Lord, and there is no evidence of change?

You are right Walker..if no fruits are evident, they are not saved.
But again, only God knows each man's heart..and only God is to judge, not man.

Here is the article now:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Working Out Your Salvation--Philippians 2:12
by Bob Wilkin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Many people interpret the word salvation in this verse to refer to eternal salvation from hell. This, I feel, is improper.

Some have interpreted Phil 2:12 to mean that Christians must bring about their own eternal salvation by obeying God. Such an understanding is entirely foreign to the Bible!

Others have suggested that the key to understanding this verse is the word out. Working out eternal salvation, they say, is different than working for it. They interpret Paul to mean that we are to put our eternal salvation into practice. This view removes the obvious theological difficulty of the previously mentioned view. However, I do not believe it best fits the context.

In this article I would like to present another grace view which I feel better fits the immediate context and Paul's use of the words salvation and work out.

Believers Are in View
In our verse Paul calls the readers "my beloved," an expression he reserves for believers. See also 1:1 where Paul indicates that he is writing, "to the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi." Believers are already eternally saved and cannot lose that salvation.
Paul Is Calling Believers to Ongoing Obedience
Paul begins this verse with the words "as you have always obeyed." We expect him to go on to say something like, "keep on obeying." While he does not use exactly those words, that is implicit in what he does say. Working out one's salvation is another way of talking about ongoing obedience. The following context bears out this conclusion.
Fear And Trembling?
While believers are not to fear hell-Jesus has guaranteed that no will go there (John 3:16-18; 5:24), we are to fear the Lord. This fear reflects both reverence for His awesome grandeur (e.g., Isa 6) and respect for His discipline (e.g., Heb 12:3-11). Believers are thus to exercise ongoing obedience with an attitude of reverential fear.
Salvation from What?
The word salvation (Gk. soteria) occurs only three times in Philippians. In 1:19 Paul said, "For I know that this will turn out for my salvation through your prayers and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ." Paul wrote Philippians from jail (see Phil 1:12-14). Thus the term salvation in 1:19 might refer to Paul's deliverance from prison. However, in vv 20-26 Paul hints that while he expected to be released (vv25-26), he might instead glorify Christ by his death (vv20-23). Thus Paul may have used the word salvation metaphorically in v 19 to refer to a victorious triumph over the trials he faced by magnifying Christ through them whether he was released from prison or not. (See Zane Hodges, The Gospel Under Siege, Second Edition, pp. 96-99.) In any case the word salvation in v19 clearly has nothing to do with Paul's eternal salvation!
In 1:28 Paul indicates that if the Christians at Philippi demonstrated a lack of fear of their adversaries (i.e., by continuing to boldly proclaim Christ and live for Him), this would be proof to the adversaries of their destruction (Gk. apoleia) and to the Christians at Philippi of their own salvation. Salvation in 1:28, as in 1:19, has two possible meanings. First, it could refer to deliverance from temporal difficulties-the very difficulties God's adversaries do not escape (they experience "destruction"). Second, it could refer to believers triumphantly glorifying Christ through temporal difficulties, whether they escaped them or not. In both cases temporal, not eternal, deliverance is in view. So when we turn to 2:12 it is reasonable to expect that the word salvation is used by Paul as it has been in the only other two uses in this letter. That is, we expect another reference to temporal (=here and now) deliverance. That is indeed the case.

The salvation of 2:12 either refers to deliverance from the difficulties God brings upon the disobedient or to deliverance through the trials that the faithful experience, though not necessarily by means of escaping the trials themselves.

What Does "Work Out" Mean?
The word translated work out (katergazomai) means to "achieve, accomplish, bring about, produce, [or] create" (BGD, p. 421). Paul was thus exhorting the Philippian believers to bring about or achieve their own salvation by obedience to God. This makes perfect sense if temporal salvation is in view. Compare 1 Cor 11:30; James 1:21; 2:14; 5:19-20.
The translation work out is potentially misleading since one meaning of work out is to exercise something we already have (e.g., "he works out three times a week"). That is not what the Greek word means. It only can legitimately be translated work out in the sense of accomplishing something (as in "he worked out a solution to the budget deficit"). The idea that the word out is the key to understanding this verse is unsupported by the meaning of the Greek word in question or the context.

Conclusion
In this article I have argued that Phil 2:12 is not dealing with eternal salvation at all. Rather, it is dealing either with temporal salvation from the calamities which come upon the disobedient or with temporal salvation through the trials which faithful believers face.
Therefore, get to work and keep on working. Seek to utilize every opportunity to glorify Christ. Remember, it always pays to obey God and it never pays to disobey Him.

Our God is indeed an awesome God. It makes great sense for those who love and reverence Him to obey Him.


http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1993/93may3.html

Besides, there are verses that call the whole notion of the assurance of salvation into question. "I buffet my own body, and make it my slave; or I, who have preached to others, may myself be rejected as worthless," says Paul (1 Cor 9:27). This follows the well-known verses that speak of running a race, and the race, of course, is the race of life, the finish line being entrance to Heaven. The author of Radio Bible Class booklet says that Paul "did not want to lose the reward for service through failing to satisfy his Lord; he was not afraid of losing his salvation." While that interpretation seems to strain the passage a bit, it is not entirely unreasonable, but I Corinthians 9:27 should not be read in isolation.

Compare it to Philippians 2:12: "Beloved, you have always shown yourselves obedient, now that I am at distance, not less but much more than when I am present, you must work to earn your salvation, in anxious fear." Other translations say "workout your own salvation in fear and trembling." This is not the language of selfpconfident assurance. What is more, Paul tells us, "all of us have a scrutiny to undergo before Christ's judgment-seat, for each to reap what his mortal life has earned, good or ill, according to his deeds." (2 Cor. 5:10), and GOd "will award to every man what his acts has deserved" (Rom 2:6). BUt if the only act of consequence is the born-again experience, what difference do the other acts make? The Apostle notes that, "there is graciousness, then, in God is also severity. His severity is for those who have fallen away, his graciousness is for thee, only so long as thou dost continue in His grace, if not thou too shal be pruned away" (Rom 11:22). Paul wrote this to who were already "saved," in a state of grace - a grace they could lose, becoming unsaved.

Direct quote from:

CATHOLICISM AND FUNDAMENTALISM: The attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians" P. 174

By Karl Keating

morningsong......nothing "obey" something they love.....

does a wife obey a husband

does a husband obey a wife

does a child obey a parent

does a beast obey it's master

if actions are in love, then they obey by simple WANT of the heart, and NEVER because it was commanded........

indeed, one cannot live by the laws "you" have laid down that will not remove "itself" and all who believe from love, as a motive of "give to get" is even more established in each heart that follow, and this DESTROY all possible true love.......

Walker, once saved always saved....you cannot lose your ETERNAL salvation ,IF you were really and truly saved.

Just like a natural child , once born into this world cannot become UNBORN...so ALSO is it with being born of God.
Once a spiritual birth(born of God)takes place, it cannot be UNDONE.
It would be the same as saying a child once born, can become unborn.
IMPOSSIBLE.

But again...working OUT your salvation , is an entirely different matter from ETERNAL SALVATION, Walker.(see the article I shared above).
They are NOT one and the same.

And Walker, even if you beleive otherwise, you are still going to heaven, cause yuo are already saved, whwen yuo accepted and beleived on the Lord Jerssu Chrsit as yuor Lord.and meant it in your heart
And as evidence, I see fruits in you..although I also see yo have much more growing up to do in Christ.

As we all do.....none of us have arived...not by a long shot.

Walker... God will NOT go agaisnt His word and His Promises Given to us.

believe me dear. I will grow up within the Catholic faith which will never agree with the "salvation by faith alone" doctrine.
It's absolutely unreasonable to think that an individual who says the "famous prayer" and lives a wicked life without any sign of penance will be saved at the end.
Scripture is very clear, and it does not contradict itself. At the end I will be face to face with my Lord and he will measure my life.
How did I answer to His gift of faith?
I can't say I have faith in my Lord if I don't show it with deeds.
Believe me when I tell you that I can't see myself being saved just with faith and having a wicked life.
Mr. Keating makes a very clear exposition why the "salvation by faith alone" flies in the face of my Lord and St. Paul's teachings.
Sadly I can't transcribe the whole chapter.

Walker... the special burden you have for the body of Christ ,to walk in Love, is God putting tht on your heart.
He wants to use you in that area.
That is your ministry.

But allow God to prepare your own heart too, Walker.
He wants you to love all mankind, regardless....otherwise you will have become what you judge, my friend.

WWJD.

Allow Him to always speak thru you and shine thru you ,my frend.
I am learning this myself.

If my words don't edify, they are not of the Holy Spirit, but of mine own doing.
And they become as sounding brass...saying nothing.

I love you my dear friend.
I try not judge.
However, I try to point out those flaws among us which make christianity the target of so many attacks. To give it a name is fundamentalism.
I don't feel I'm judging because again fundamentalists are my brothers and sisters in Christ, so I'm not judging any of them individually, but I'm criticizing the doctrine.
The same works with homosexuality, i don't like the sexual praxis involved, but that does not mean that I hate homosexual people.

David....yes..we OBEY out of LOVE for God..not because we have to.
We WANT to obey..out of LOVE for Our Lord.

When you LOVE someone , you want to PLEASE them, right, ?
Same with God .

We Obey because we want to please God..simply because we love God.

But christians still will go thru warring times.... with the flesh for instance, and will be tempted.and disobey God at times.
This is where we work out our salvation..and learn to overcome temptation, and grow in the Word, and obey and mature..more and more.

We are ever growing more and more...into the very likeness of our Lord.
In that sense then, working out our salvation is defintiely a process.

But once more, working out our salvation is NOT the same as Eternal salvation(which is of God and not earned by man).

Let me share this one thing more...

IF a christian were NOT already saved, he would not care one diddly about pleasing God.
IF a christian were NOT saved, he would keep walking in the world, and it would NOT GRIEVE him ONE BIT!!

BUT the fact that a christian becomes GRIEVED when he displeases God, is PROOF that he IS SAVED.
Otherwise he would care less.

So..if some of you christians are grieved in your spirit cause you keep sinning in one area ?
Well....the fact that you ARE grieved in your spirit, is proof that you ARE a child of God.

And because you are His Child, God WILL help you overcome that temptation, as you grow in Him.

But also remember..we have an advocate with the Father thru Christ Jesus....that as we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of all our sins.

God knows we aren't perfect and will slip from time to time....but as we grow more and more in Him, our spirit man becomes stronger and stronger....and our fleshly nature becomes weaker and weaker... to where the temptation ceases to be, and is no more.
As long as you keep feeding thwe spirti andf not the flesh, that is!!!

Hey.....keep your eyes on Jesus and His WORD, and NOT the tempttion, that is...and yuo wil be an overcomer..

Felt this was for someone.
Bit actually, it is shared for us all.
Amen.

morningsong, you are a precious and dear one, and there is no doubt that all of the best intentions come forth from your heart, however, the truth of all is what be a light that guide after all attempts to please god be exhausted.....

to have in the heart a thought that one can slip from time to time, show the heart follow a law of fear, and if this law of fear makes one happy, then so be it, but if others have passed thru fear, and have a friendship, then there is no fear, as what fear to slip up from time to time is not afraid.....

can my children love me if they are afraid of slipping up from time to time.......

if they do i have not been as the father in heaven, but rather a father that wishes most to be a goof father, which keep even myself afraid of god, then afraid of myself, and therefore my children afraid of me, and then afraid of themself........

they know that any slip up was intended by god that control all, and it is what the slip up teach that make wisdom, so what slip up be not for good, so then what is a slip up but a door to wisdom.......

if the heart condem, then you are right, it be god in it, but if one attempt to not do again, because of guilt, this has learned nothing of wisdom.......this be self effort, and lead to misery of repetition........

it was only spoken to admit all that one is and feel, without shame, and what can do this if afraid one has committed offense, but rather one was GIVEN opportunity to become wise.....if the father be wise, does not he wish to teach wisdom most, just as solomon, and not fear of slip up.......

who would not believe "they" can achieve unconditional love of god, and this be the very thing any slip teach, and what brings one to be content in all things, THEN one sees into wisdom, and freedom and unconditional love be taught, as god EARN the trust of mankind, just as a parent EARN the respect and trust of a child, an employer the employee, a man a women........

it is with all fear that one leave the law, and this is known by any that see, but still the same, if not left, then no friendship, and if no friendship, then none can come to the father and HEAR WHY said slip up was MADE to happen, as satan tempt, god blind not to see, for a GOOD reason.......freedom words are the only ones that have the power to remove guilt and fear, and perfect love indeed cast out fear, and none can feel guilt unless there is fear.......peace

The very fact that God has placed a certain soul
in our way is a sign that
God wants us to do something for him or her.
It is not chance;
It has been planned by God.
We are bound by conscience to help him or her.


Once we take our eyes away
from ourselves, from our interests,
from our own rights, privileges, ambitions -
then our eyes will become clear
to see Jesus around us.


Keep the joy of loving Jesus
in your heart
and share this joy
with all you meet especially your family.





DO IT ANYWAY


People are often unreasonable,
illogical and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind,
people may accuse you of selfish ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful,
you will win some false friends and true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank,
people may cheat you;
Be honest anyway.

What you spend years building,
someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway.


Mother Teresa
1910-1997

Walker...felt I needed to share this once more to clarify some areas .....

Ok Walker....as already mentioned, WHEN a person is TRULY SAVED or BORN AGAIN , there will be EVIDENCE of a CHANGED Life.
FRUITS!!

That BORN AGAN (SAVED)person now has become a NEW CREATURE in CHRIST.

And Walker....listen closely now....
conversion or eternal salvation comes IMMEDIATELY , NOT gradually.
IMMEDIATELY....his spirit becomes brand new.
IMEDIATELY He is SAVED, when He is BORN OF GOD.
NOT GRADUALLY.

HOWEVER, a brand new christian still needs to Renew his mind(SOULISH area) daily, by eating God's Word and Growing.

NOW....The GROWING up in Christ is a GRADUAL part, and the working out his salvation is a gradual process.

Just like a baby being born in the flesh , and then maturing and growing up , is a gradual process...it is the same with a baby christian maturng and growing up.

BUT WALKER.. that baby that is gradually maturing and growing up, FIRST HAD TO BE BORN!!
AMEN?

And when a babe is BORN, the BIRTHING PROCESS is NOT GRADUAL over a period of years.... it is IMMEDIATELY after coming out of his mother's womb!!
Right?

LISTENING WALKER?

Being BORN does NOT take years!!
It' s Immediate!!

SAME with being BORN AGAIN , or being BORN OF GOD!!!
It is IMMEDIATE, not GRADUAL!!

However...the WORKING OUT OF ONE'S SALVATION Is GRADUAL.....or a Process... nd is a Lifetime of growing and maturing in Christ.


Hope this clarifies what being born again is about.

ALSO, one more thing....

Walker.. when you become a christian.... NOTHING will EVER cause you to STOP being a Christian .
You don't ever say you would STOP being a christian ,if all christians were hateful.
NO.

NOTHING can make a christian STOP being a christian.
NOT if he is truly born again.....cause a christian is BORN OF GOD....and God can NOT suddenly make you UNBORN of Him, once you have become BORN of God.
NOT if you were TRULY BORN of God, that is.

Now a person may backslide, but he can NEVER lose his salvation.
Just like a child cannot become UNBORN.

ALSO...... a christian is BORN OF GOD...and NOT of his own works.
His own works can add NOTHNG to his salvation, cause Jesus did it all.
Following me?

Now.... I am talking about REAL christians here, not just someone playing church.

And if someone is a real christian, there will be FRUITS.
LOVE.
EVIDENCE OF A CHANGED LIFE FROM HIS LIFESTYLE BEFORE.

And a born again christian will WANT to Please God and obey, cause He loves God now...and is Now God's child.

A true born again christina will not want to walk in the world anymore...or wil want to sin( not that he won't slip up )..and if he does slip up, he won't stay there for long..he will come running back to God..cause he is not the same person as he was before....simply because old things have passed away... all things have become new...... he is Born again.
(talking about his spirit man).

But Walker?
Although a christian is born again in his spirit man, his soul and his physical body are still the same as before he was born again.

And it is the born again christian's job now, to put his flesh under subjection to the Holy Spirit...and renew his mind daily with the Word of God.

Yep.
THAT is the christian's job to do...not God's...God's job was saving Him......but it is up to man now, to work out his salvation...and a christian will do so willingly , because he Loves God now.

Now....this working out one's salvation has Nothing to do with ETERNAL salavation, which is NOT earned or worked out ,or has works added to it.....eternal salvation is Immediate in a christian's life...AND COMES FROM GOD!!
ONLY!!

AND MAN CANNOT ADD TO THAT ETERNAL SALVATION.

JESUS PAID FOR OUR SALVATION IN FULL ON THAT CROSS.
NOTHING WE COULD EVER DO , CAN OR WILL ,EVER ADD TO WHAT JESUS ALREADY DID FOR US, 2000 YEARS AGO ON THAT CROSS.

IT WOULD BE LIKE SAYING, JESUS DID NOT DO ENOUGH FOR US TO GET US SAVED.....WHEN HE DIED ON THAT CROSS FOR US.
AMEN?

Hope this clarifies the subject of Salvation up.

Be Blessed Now ,Walker.

all of these is pretty clear my dear morningsong.
However, my only point is that such christian don't work out or keep growing constantly.
Or even worse if such christian commits a serious sin after being born again, and this christian don't repent for this sin committed after being born again, this christian will lose salvation.
Another thing you have agreed with me in the sense, the fact a person is born again or baptized (in catholic terms) this nature has to produce a personal growing in the individual. That is what I called good deeds because it would be absolutely wrong to say that I have been baptized or born again, and not doing anything at all, and keep living according to the flesh and not to the spirit.
If after being baptized I keep living according to the flesh, and I don't let the Holy Spirit work in me for my own growth. I'm sure I would not get in Heaven. That is my personal view.

TLW

the act of professing oneself a "christian" deny ones own maker, and therefore the maker of all, as all life come from one source, as not one human can be the source, so what human has the right to "define" by their own perception what love be for another, for even it was spoken that the "kingdom of heaven" see not male or female, homosexual or hetersexual, black or white, jew and non jew......

the belief that the "christian" religion is the ONE way is damned and accursed......if the jews be blinded, then what gentile believe that they also shall not be, as god was spoken to be fair, and wise, and treat ALL as equal.......

this belief "christian" belief shall rise with an outpouring of "holy" that will condem, and interpret "what" be holy and not holy, and attempt even by force to impose and overtake all, and give more power to the beast fear, which blindly in fear be willing to smite it's own brothers, women, and children, all in the "name" of eliminating evil, to make peace........what eye can see

this belief will not stand, and will pass away to the bottom of the sea, just as the "percieved" unsinkable titanic 100 years ago in 1912, as a sign.......this belief will not stand and shall give full rise over the next 3 1/2 years.......the greater one grasp to it for salvation and "righness", the greater one promote, the more sanity and love will slip away each day, creating more despise, all to secure a feeling of HOLY love, that seek to save itself first, that DEMAND that it be treated with love by others, when it was spoken by text claimed believed, that eyes that see, see as god, and god look thru unconditional love, and what man then that love set forth a condition to be viewed equal, or loved, and thereby HOLY will accurse all things that speak anything offensive, even if it be truth, even when the word christian means "to take no offense".........so it be.........as it was spoken the "beast" shall deceive the saints, not the wicked, and humble, and wise.......

we are what we are, good and bad, sorry and not sorry, as each thing be cause and effect, that was created for mankinds learnning, and this admission be all one need to be forever in truth, and peace.........peace

Walker, a christian, if truly born again, will keep growing.
Just like a babe born in the natural grows, so does a child born of God grows.


Also Walker, IF you are born again, you will NOT WANT TO KEEP SINNING, Or LIVING AFTER THE FLESH, OR DISPLEASING GOD.
Cause You LOVE GOD NOW.
You WANT to Obey out of Love....not becaasue you HAVE to.

Oh sure, you may slip up and sin( all we christians will still sin from time to time, cause we are not perfect, just saved)...... but because we are God's Children, we will NOT WANT TO STAY in that sin.... .
We wil becomes sooo grieved , that we have to come running back to Abba Father and repent and ask for Forgiveness.And we have an advocate with the father thru Chrsit Jesus, who is faithful to FORGIVE us of al our sins, when we confess them with a broken and contrite spirt.
And God washes us clem fromt hat sin..ansd as we grow, we wil not WANT to keep sinning at all.
(Not that we still won't slip up again)

But we eventually become stronger and stronger and eventually will overcome the temptation to sin..and God thru The Holy Spirit ,will help us.

So Walker... God is NOT going to keep us from heaven and disown us, just because we slip up once in awhile, Walker.

But God WILL CHASTISE us and get our attention, IF we become rebellious , and think we can keep sinning.
(some children of God are rebellious, just like kids in the natural )

Walker....Know this in your heart....
Once You are God's child , God will NEVER leave you NOR FORSAKE you, Walker.....and because you are His child, God WILL also help you grow up.


And one more....a child of God WANTS to obey God, caaue he loves God.
But children can become disobedient....and again, God WILL DEAL with that rebellious child.... get that rebellious child's attention, if GOd has to.
And you don't want to keep disobeying God.

Hi MS... I must add something here...

Just because we are Christians it doesn't mean we are going to get along with everyone else & vice versa. It also doesn't mean that we are not saved or part of Christ's body of believers. Everyone is at different levels of faith. Personalities still rub against eachother.. things like that happen everywhere.

It is what it is... you are correct...it's not for anyone to judge. I've met Christians of many types.. MANY... personalites etc. We should give more thought that we all serve a purpose than passing judgement on others...as Christians.

that goes for everyone...

does it not strike that if one trys to NOT LIVE BY THE FLESH, THIS PROVES THIS AGENDA BE MOST IN ONES OWN HEART, WHICH PROVE PRETENSES, AND WHAT HUMAN LIKE PRETENSES FROM A FRIEND, AND THIS BE SEEN AS WHAT GOD WANTS..............LIES, AS LOVE OF GOD KNOWS ONE THING FIRST.........THAT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE WAS SPOKEN TO BE GOD, BECAUSE IT WANT HONESTY, NOT PRETENSES, AND FAKE, AND THIS SHOW NOTHING BELIEVE EVEN THE VERY FIRST THING GOD SPOKE ABOUT HIMSELF, WHICH SHOW IT KNOW NOT GOD.........

THIS VERY SPIRIT IS DAMNED WITHIN SCRIPTURES AS COMING FROM HELL, AND THE EVIL ONE, AND IS SERVING THE GOLDEN IMAGE, A BROWN NOSER, THE WANNABEE TEACHERS PET, THE POLITICIAN, THE CRAFTER OF WORDS FOR IT'S OWN AGENDA, THE SCRIBE AND PHARISEE, SPEAKING OUT OF THE MOUTH THE EVILS OF ONES OWN HEART, CONDEMING ALL OTHERS AND NOT SEEING IT'S OWN HEART, AND DAMNING ITSELF TO WALK IN BLINDNESS, SPEAKING DECPETIONS THAT KEEP DELUSION THE ONLY FRIEND, AND THIS ONE WALK RIGHT INTO THE SAME PIT THAT SWALLOWED GOLDEN IDOL WORSHIPPERS WITHIN TEXT.........THE ONLY THING THAT KNOW GOD SAY "MAKE ME AND DO WITH ME AS "YOU" SEE FIT"..........THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF THE MIND AS TO WHAT THIS IS, UNLESS ONE SEE DELUSION AND IMAGES OF GOODNESS, AND THIS IT SEEK TO EARN MERIT, WHEN SEEKING MERIT EARN DAMNATION.........PEACE

The Bible can't be used as a text book with series of rules with which people judge other people. The Bible is a book for personal inquiry. Meaning I have to use it for my own growing as a person, and not to judge my brothers and sisters.

TLW

Judgement starts at the House of Israel. just as spider pointed out about a sinning brother.

We are to judge those in the faith when you see them most definately sinning.

Yahshua even said whoever brings one back who has fallen away covers a multitude of sin.

This once saved always saved.. where does it say that?

Don't squench the spirit.

You are the temple made without hands. The Holy spirit will not live in an unclean temple.

The Holy spirit being within you is what justify's you.


Anyone can fall away. Prophecy in Thess. says that the GREAT FALLING AWAY has to happen before Yahshua comes back. Taking out the weeds from the wheat.

You can not fall away from something you never had.

Thats a false doctrine.

Just like faith alone came from a man who said slaughtering Jews you were doing Yahweh's service.

Why would you want to believe anything this man said.. Say Hi Hitler..Would you say that?

Or the Rapture come from a false prophet and now it's the truth.

I don't want anything to do with a false Prophet..


Like you said we all need to read our Bible with a open heart and The spirit then will Guide you..Blessings..Miles