Gardenforge - You act as if though you know what's best for this
country. You are soooo off base it's not even funny.
The way your talking is the same as what was said during the Korean
War, the Cold War, and Vietnam. Typical right wing bullsh*t!
You sincerely believe we should stick to our guns and 'stay the
course'? Hmmm. Why? Tell me the REAL reason we're in Iraq. Try to at
least.
Our country is known for changing our government when things go bad,
NOT to keep things the way they are.
You sound as bad as the lame, know-it-all reteric I hear on Fox news
every freakin' day. It seems you actually believe their lies. So sad.
Oh well, I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.


P.S. Just wondering. Do you care about the soldiers who are dying over
there? You do realize most of them don't agree with this war, right?
That's a fact!

Kev you are clueless. Yes I care about the lives being lost over there.
And please don't tell me about Korea I was growing up when it was going
on and don't tell me about Viet Nam because I was ass deep in rice
paddies when you were just a gleam in your daddy's eye.

Gardenforge,
What Kev want to hear is that we went to Iraq so we could get the
oil. My question is why we don't hear good things when the price at the
pumps go down, because we sure as heck hear about how bad it is when the
price goes up.
P.S. Thank you for your service to the country.

Kevology how can you say what the majority of the soldiers over there
agree with? Granted they would rather not be there but who are you to
say what the majority think about the cause? If you don't like what Fox
News has to say why do you continue to watch it daily? When some Islamic
Jihadist Radical comes and parks a car full of explosives in your town
remember your words. I wish to hell I could turn back time and make 9-11
never happen or the war on terrorism. The sad fact remains, what has
happened has happened and we had to react with force or send a message
that whatever you decide to do to our country is just fine.

Yeah, I was out of line, some. I just get fired up about this topic.
Gardenforge, I respect the fact you went to Nam, that's gnarly. It
just sucks that we went to Iraq when we should be cocentrating on what
started this whole mess.
I don't agree with the war, never will. That's where I stand. I'm
just not hearing from anyone about why exaclty we are in Iraq.
It has been proven we went over there based on false intelligence.
So, why say this war is justified? We lied to the whole freakin' world
about why we were going in. Am I wrong?
About watching FOX news everyday...I don't. I see clips on CNN and
MSNBC.
I know nobody will listen to a youngin' such as myself, but I do
follow what's going on, I just don't have the same views as some people
here. It's all good. That's what makes debating so much fun.
So, I hope we can all shake hands and be cool.

Tag! you're it!

As I have said before, I find it quite amusing when liberals starts
loosing an argument that they immediately drop the issue and resort to
profanity and personal attacks. I will say it once again and put it in
all caps this time so perhaps some people can understand it. PROFANITY
IS A SMALL MIND'S FEEBLE ATTEMPT AT SELF EXPRESSION. Perhaps the best
stratigy we could use i Iraq is to back off and let them all go at each
other with the clear understanding that when it is over and there is a
definite winner that we are going to nuke that winner off the face of
the Earth. The U.N. is nothing more than a Third World debating
society. They never finish what they start and their idea of decisive
action is to sit back and wring their hands while they pass meaningless
resolutions they have no intention of enforcing.

War is total insanity. It is the most horible act in which mankind can
engage. Then to make rules to govern the conduct of this insanity is
the ultimate oxymoron. Then to follow these rules of "civilized
warfare" while your enemy flaunts them is sheer stupidity. Once your
enemy knows that there is no place he can run, no place that he can
hide, that you will pursue him to the end of the earth and anhilate him
if necessary then and only then will he lay down his arms and seek
peace.

If we could just pull back and let the rest of the world commit mahyem
upon themselves and let us live in peace, I would be all for it.
However, that is not their intention. I see TV commercials that say
"Mr. Bush stop the killing in Dufar". These are the same people who say
that we should cut and run in Iraq and every other place where we
confront terrorism. On the one hand they shout "we are not the police
force of the world' and on the other they shout "police the world, stop
the killing in Dufar". As far as I know we didn't start the killing in
Dufar.

Liberals refuse to study history because that way they feel they cannot
be held responsible when they keep making the same mistake over and over
again.


Let me share a few thoughts and images I brought home with me from Viet
Nam perhaps you can get a hint of what is like, but I can tell you about
it all day long and you will not be able to understand completely It is
not something that you can learn from written text, it must be
experienced and I pray that you will never have to live that experience.

There is a fleeting moment, it's just a few seconds long, but it seems
to last forever. It is so pristine and pure that it must be like the
first moment after creation, absolute silence, not a breath or a sound
to disturb the stillness. It is like everything is frozen in time, like
the world is in a state of suspended animation. It is like the whole
world is holding it's breath afraid that any sound or movement will
start the maddness again. That moment is the time between the last shot
in a battle and the time the wounded start screaming.

A rifle kills on both ends. One end kills the enemy,but every time you
fire it at your enemy a piece of you gets killed too. Just a small
piece, a little chunk of you that can feel, love and touch and be
touched. You don't notice it at first, but it is cumulative and it
finally dawns on you when you realize that you have acquaitences that
you would die for but you have no friends. You want no friends because
you cannot stand the emotional trauma that comes with loosing yet
another one close to you. To some extent you will carry this with you
for the rest of your life. It will be difficult for you to allow anyone
to get close to you.

Always remember that the price of your freedom was very dear. The check
that paid for it is chiseled in stone in hundreds of graveyards and
signed in blood on battlefields all over the world.

It was not the grate oritator that gave you freedom of speach, it was a
soldier.

It was not a lawyer that gave you freedom from illegal search, siezure
and arrest it was a soldier.

It was not the ACLU that gave you freedom of assembly, it was a soldier.

It was not the Journalist that gave you freedom of the Press, it was a
soldier.

For the fact that you are able to read this, thank a teacher, for the
fact that you are able to read this in English, thank a Soldier.

Gardenforge - Sorry bud, but you resort to personal attacks as well.
Remember your 'clueless' statement?
I have never LOST an argument with you. It's not a win or lose
situation. Too funny!
I know you think you're in the right here, but that doesn't mean you
really are. Just the same as when I put my two cents in.
One more question or ya, Gardenforge. Why would you side with the
same government that screwed over the all the vets upon returning from
Vietnam? Or, did you get special treatment? Just curious.

The govt that screwed over the vets coming back from Viet Nam was from
the radical left liberals who thought it was their right to call me
names and spit at me and from Jimmy (just come home) Carter who pardoned
all the deserters and draft dodgers that fled the country rather than
serve. Like I said you need to study history and as far as special
treatment yeah I got real special treatment, I have Type II Diabetes
from Agent Orange Exposure. As for saying you are clueless being a
personal attack, it was just an observation of the obvious, you have but
a limited knowledge of history and you twist the facts to whatever suits
your argument regardless of what actually occurred.

The obvious? You know nothing about me. You don't have any knowledge
of what I do or do not know. Your observation is based on assumption.

So, why are we in Iraq? Would you agree it's about the oil and $$$$?
Or, no?

I happened to watch the history channel a couple nights ago, seems
Saddam who had no WMDs managed to kill thousands of Kurds with the nerve
gas he didn't have. Funny how liberals always try to make it about oil
or the rich or whatever buzz phrase they happen to spin out that day.
Actually we get about 10% of our oil from the middle east, we get about
1/4 of it from Canada. Everybody in the world including the UN, Hillary
Clinton, Ted Kennedy and Cut and Run Kerry were convinced that Iraq had
WMDs, we know he had them at one time, there is no record of their
destruction and until it has been conclusively proven that they are all
destroyed I will always have my doubts. There is one school of thought
that says they were moved to Syria and into the Baca Velley in Lebenon.
Oh and by the way I have stock in EXXON so I don't want any cheap oil
coming in and bringing down the price. I need all the dividends I can
get

Kev my friend, it is said that if you are young and not liberal you
don't have a heart and if you are old and not conservative you don't
have a brain. Hang in there, I have high hopes for you as you age.

Gardenforge - I hear ya. I still have along way to go. Truce!
Until next time.

Oh, by the way. It is also said that young men fight old men's
wars.