Okay??? I was just answering your question to the best of my ability. Is my belief because of what I read in the bible? Well, no it wasn't...but it can be that to a large degree now. But, I still question the wholeness of the Bible. I am not a Christian, I don't think. But, I do believe in God of everything. I feel that there must be a reason to all this. An intelligence at work.
Kat

Really? Beacuse if I remember right Tribo, and I, and a few other people on these forums ask for proof all the time but nothing other than bible scriptures are ever given. So if you have the proof then please give it to us so that we may see what you do. Although I suspect that the proof you have is nothing more than bible verses. Either that or you will rebut with the answer that we wouldn't listen anyway so why bother.

Either way I have yet to see this proof that I have been asking for.

There is no more real proof to His existance than there is to His non existance. Not anything we can see, feel, touch. The mind and the hearts is all we have. All of us.
Kat

I know, thats the point I was trying to make. Although she claims to have proof and if that is true I want to see it.

I don't think we actually know for a fact whether the Bible is the Word of God.....Christians believe it is and that is one of the foundations of their thought....just because you say it is not the Word of God does not make that a true statement....My question to you, "What if it is the Word of God spoken through men?

I think Christianity would survive just fine without the Bible & maybe do even better.....Christianity was first developed without a Bible....the written words of the events that take place in the New Testament occurred some 30 to 60 years after the death of Jesus....Paul & Peter, to some extent, spread the word, and they didn't have a Bible(it wasn't written yet)....And they converted whole countries...

I think many Christians quote the Bible because that is where they go to seek answers....as they grow in their understanding, mature in their experiences, & live their lives according to the Words that they read....they will not need to quote scripture...Quikstepper is a good example of someone with a deep understanding of Christian thought & living....think about what she says, you might learn something....

Even IF, and this is a BIG IF mind you. God descided to descend his way down here and sit with some guys and tell them what to write in the bible making it the "Word of God spoken through men" which I don't believe for an instant. But IF that were the case it is not true anymore. The bible has been through so many translations and people adding their own pieces. An old testament and a new testament. So the bible we have today would not be the word of god. It would be a man translated word of man who is supposedly speaking for God.

And you might be right. The religion very well might survive and even flourish without the Bible. Although that is all Tribo and I are asking. If their faith is that strong that the religion will survive they should have no problem getting rid of their bibles and stop running to them at every turn and spread the religion like they did in the beginning.

Also you are right, Quickstepper is a great example of someone who is very knowledgeable of Christian thought and living. So great an example infact that she refuses to learn anything about the other religions that she speaks so outwardly against. I know the Christian religion very well, I just don't follow it. She knows nothing about the pagans and the wiccans and the other religions that she detests. So no, I don't believe I will learn anything by listening to what she says as I am already well versed in Christianity as well and she refuses to learn anything about those she hates.

yes well...thanks for the agreement.... I do try to speak what I know & learned from the LIVING Word of God.

Some here are frustrated because they are not there yet. I was the same way only I never said anything against God or the Bible. Who knew that things were being stored up for a time as this? Some just have not had that "road to Damascus" experience yet.

Paul was just as zealous to kill Christians until God came to him on the road to Damascus. He did not recieve from men but God Himself.

Some here are angry because I say what God says about worshipping other gods. They want no rebuttal to the deception that they believe because it's easier...more "carnal," if you ask me.

Their gripe is really with God not us Christians. I have to laugh because anyone who knows me knows that I keep it real...anything less I consider a waste of time. I am no wimp either. Another good reason why I don't bother with the new age "enlightenment." Why do fake when I have the real thing?

the early church was close to the holding's of the apostles out side of jerusalem and the rest of the jewish area's, the apsotles who went forth to different parts spread the good new's - most news was spread by word of mouth at that point not by books, many were illiterate in that sense just like in later times when the minstrel's of england and such passed stories as they wandered. i have little doubt that this is the way in which it was spread- originally. i believe it stayed that way till the time of Constantine and from that point was taken away from the bulk of the christians and read to them by the clergy in time. it stayed that way until the reformation era when it finally started (with the help of printing presses) to get back into the hands of
the individual again- unless you were catholic.

whether the bible is used now as a road map, a comfort, a security blanket or any other reason, makes no difference to me. you can keep it, burn it, or give it away. i cannot prove the existance or non existence of the christian god or even my god - nor can i prove any one's faith or lack there of - in whatever their belief's may be. i still think marx's quote of " religion is the opiate of the masses" is true, it has been one of the most destructive forces on earth both before and after christ. and we can all sit back and think about how wonderful gods love is if we want to - but that does not change the "FACT" that man remain's just as selfish in his heart as he has from the beginning and distort'and bend's what may be truth's to sooth his own soul. erasmus stated well " the war of words will only end in blows" and diogenese looking for an honest man? well if he found one the only way he could have know if he had found an honest man is if he heard him say - "there is no such thing as an honest man" all are fool's no matter what their belief's are. funny how there is only one thing we can really know for sure - right here and now - and that is ourselves, we are mankind- we are the only thing have inside information on - if we would only learn to know the truth about ourselves first - then we could make real progress as a species. til then we are doomed to continue making the same blunders and stupid mistakes over and over and over. i have nothing further to say on the subject i started here. there is no proof of god except in the individual belief's of each person.and until people grow up enough to talk about it from knowing what and who they truly are it is all vanity, smoke and mirror's, dead end conclusion's.

sincerely - tribo

You are probably right in the sense that the gripe originates from the bible and the supposed word of God. However you take on the gripe when you continuously talk down about the other religions you know nothing about. It's all fine and Dandy if the Biblical word of God wants to say that those who worship false gods are followers of satan or whatever it was that was written in all those years ago by the close minded people that contributed to the bible. Although while you are out there spreading the word of God, you assume any gripes we have with him because if we can't gripe at him directly, we can only go through the ones that claim to know his message.

So if you want to go around and speak about things you don't know or understand or have any interest in understanding that's fine. Although don't act so surprised that people are getting mad at you because of it. You say you have to laugh because people that know you know you keep it real, although I have to laugh because you can't keep something real if you don't understand it. You are basing all your judgements of other religions off of an egotistical and narcissistic God. Because only one with that big of an ego and bout of Narcicism would really be that upset that someone decided to worship a God other than him.

I know this is a bad analogy but, if you found the biggest gold mine ever and someone else claimed they found it would you not be mad?

So, if God is "the God", then wouldn't it hold so that he would want to hold on to His ultimate name?

Kat

If he were a human with human feelings and emotions then definately. But that would play into his ego and Narcissism that I was talking about. Although the Christians on here say that he is a perfect God that is the ultimate being of kindness and forgiveness. The two concepts contradict themselves. He can't be this perfect God and also be that petty at the same time.

Actually speaking, God doesn't NEED us. Like all the rest of creation...including the heavenly host, He invites us into His plan.

There would be no debate if humanity really recieved what is deserved.

Not really.... God did make us in His image...minus the frailties that the curse causes. God is also all knowing.

Here's an example...you can be beautiful but not conceited.
....................You can be meek...but not a wimp.

So if God made us in His image we are subject to the persona...of what is the question. Right?

I believe in God & Jesus. I believe I can attrain to their charactor etc etc.

Yu think?

funny, as a jew thats how I feel about christians all the time....

Jesus was recorded preaching from the Bible. A Christian who doesn't need the Bible is an oxymoron.

tribo::

i wan't to hear that "RECORDING" !!! - was it tape or cd??

Record (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/record)


Context is key to interpreting the posts of others and the Bible. The authors of the New Testament recorded Jesus' sermons. Events were recorded long before audio recording existed.

hahaha - was but a joke spider

How can anyone say they do not believe in the Bible? Sure there are freedoms that protect your right not to, but there are so many prophecies that have come true. Most of them are in the form of a parable. You ask why this is and why it's so difficult to understand. Because we as human beings are incabable of understanding the world beyond us. We only use 3% of our brains. But here is a prophecy that no one can deny. September 11, 2001.

"The burning of New York was a fulcrum that dramatically and permanently changed western civilization, altering world history forever.

A seminal event and heavily documented in scripture, it fits the time-line predicted for it's occurrance too closely to be ignored, for it matches with precision the size and details of tthe visions which foresaw it."

http://goodnewspirit.com/towers-babylon.htm

(Ex.19:10)) Exactly nine months into the third day, the handwritting of the Lord etched itself on the walls of the city.
(Dn.5:5) incarnating scripture in stunning images that left the whole world (who watched in horror) transfixed by it's unfolding message.
(Is.23:13-14) Look at the land of Kittim...they have set up towers.
(Is.30:25) On every high mountain and upon every high hill, there will be streams and watercourses, on the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
(Is.28:4-6) Trust in God forever for the Lord is the everlasting rock; he has brought low those who have lived high up in the steep citadel; he brings it down, brings it down to the ground, flings it down in the dust; the feet of the lowly, the foot steps of the poor trample on it.
(Ez.26:3-4) They will destroy the walls of Tyre, they will demolish her towers; I will sweep away her dust and leave her a naked rock.
(Ez.26:12-14) Your wealth will be seized, your merchandise looted, your walls razed, your luxurious houses shattered, your stones, your timbers, your very dust, thrown into the sea. I will stop your music and songs...I will reduce you to a naked rock.
(Jer.51:53) Were Babylon to scale the heavens, or reinforce her towering citadel, destroyers would still fall on her at my command, it is God who speaks.
(Rev.18:7-8) I am queen on my throne, she says to herself, and I am no widow and shall never be in mourning. For that, within a single day, the plagues will fall on her: disease and mourning and femine. She will be burnt right up. The Lord God has condemned her, and he has great power.
(Rev.18:9) There will be mourning and weeping for her by the kings of the earth who have fornicated with her and lived with her in luxury. They see the smoke as she burns, while they keep at a safe distance from fear of her agony.
(Rev.18:15-17) The traders who have made a fortune out of her will standing at a safe distance from fear of her agony, mourning and weeping. They will be saying: 'Mourn, mourn for this great city; for all the linen and purple and scarlet that you wore, for all your finery of gold, jewels, and pearls; your riches are all destroyed within a single hour.
(Rev.18:4-5) A new voice spoke from heaven; I heard it say, 'Come out, my people, away from her so that you do not share in her crimes and have the same plagues to bear.

There is much more, but too much to type here. But you get my point. At least I hope you do.