I intend to pose a series of ‘Christian’ oriented questions. They are meant to be for discussion for the purpose of figuring out where the differences in Christianity come into play.

So, for discussion purposes, your opinion is important and equally important is how you come by your opinion (or belief). Feel free to give Bible passages to uphold your ideas, opinions and beliefs. BUT DO NOT PURPOSELY OFFEND OTHERS who may believe differently.

Here is a chance for REAL CHRISTIAN discovery.

FIRST area of discussion:

How do you feel about SAINTS? The declaration of, veneration of, who are they, why are they saints? Anything to do with Saints.

Finally a time and place to use your knowledge of Bible passages. So if you are answering from a Christian perspective, please feel free to use Biblical scripture to explain your beliefs in this matter.


LET ME HEAR YOU! LET US LEARN!

Don't think it's right. How can any human being know or claim to know who is Heaven and who isn't? Short answer: We can't, only God can say that.

As for veneration can describe that in two words: Idol worship.

Does every Christian refer to the disciples as saints? Are some saints recognised by every Christian religion?

Who are some of the saints and what makes them saints?

Eph 1 reads...
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Psalm 89:5
And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

Ephesians 3:8
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

etc etc...

Sorry Quick, but I don’t see the connection? According to every dictionary I’ve looked at you are incorrect.

Suggestion- perhaps you need to look up the ORIGINAL scriptures BEFORE they were translated. Find where you think the word SAINT has been used and then cross reference that word with both the original language and the word it was translated to.

Actually, I don’t think the word Saint was even a word when the Bible was being translated. I could be wrong, but as to what the definition of Saint all over the world, I don't think every dictionary is incorrect - do you?

So what do you suppose that means?


Just FYI some definitions

1. somebody honored by church after death: a member of a religion who after death is formally designated as having led a life of exceptional holiness
2. somebody in heaven: somebody who goes to heaven after death
3. virtuous person: a particularly good or holy person, or one who is exceptionally kind and patient in dealing with difficult people or situations

• noun 1 a person who is acknowledged as holy or virtuous and regarded in Christian faith as being in heaven after death. 2 a person of exalted virtue who is canonized by the Church after death and who may be the object of veneration and prayers for intercession. 3 informal a very virtuous person.
• verb 1 formally recognize as a saint; canonize. 2 (sainted) worthy of being a saint; very virtuous.
Main Entry:
1saint
Pronunciation:
\ˈsānt, before a name (ˌ)sānt or sənt\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French seint, saint, from Late Latin sanctus, from Latin, sacred, from past participle of sancire to make sacred — more at SACRED
Date:
13th century
1: one officially recognized especially through canonization as preeminent for holiness2 a: one of the spirits of the departed in heaven b: ANGEL 1a3 a: one of God's chosen and usually Christian people bcapitalized : a member of any of various Christian bodies; specifically : LATTER-DAY SAINT4: one eminent for piety or virtue5: an illustrious predecessor

NOUN: 1a. abbr. St. or S. Christianity A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth. b. A person who has died and gone to heaven. c. Saint A member of any of various religious groups, especially a Latter-Day Saint. 2. An extremely virtuous person.
TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: saint•ed, saint•ing, saints
To name, recognize, or venerate as a saint; canonize.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English seint, from Old French saint, from Late Latin s nctus, from Latin, holy, past participle of sanc re, to consecrate. See sak- in Appendix I.

Ok - so the deciples are not saints? OR are they?

Can Jesus be a saint?

Catholics fully agree that Paul refers to living Christians as saints. All of us in the body of Christ are saints.

It would be easy to conclude that this is the only way to use the word "saint." However, long before the time of Christ, King David used the term "saint" while speaking to his fellow Jews, "Love the Lord all you his saints" (Psalm 31:23 NRSV and NIV). The KJB has over 80 instances of the word "saint" in the Old Testament that don't refer to "living Christians"( i.e., 1 Sam.2, 2 Chr.6:41, Job.5:1, Prov.2:8, Dan.7:18, 21, Hos 11:12).

Even Paul sometimes gives the word a distinct meaning: "believers and saints" (Acts 9:32 ), "to the saints and faithful brothers" (Col 1:2). The term is used in a variety of contexts throughout the Bible. The word "saint" simply means "holy one" or "sanctified" (Sanctus). It could be a Jew of the Old Testament, a Christian of the New Testament, a faithful Christian living today, or a Christian in Heaven.
Canonized Saints

When Catholics say the word saint, they are usually talking about a specific kind of saint, a canonized saint. Catholics should probably be more explicit so as not to cause confusion.

The Church recognizes some Christians (saints) that have endured, entered Heaven and won the crown, and have proved to be serious prayer warriors for us on earth. The Church must be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the saint is in heaven. This is why they go through so much scrutiny over each and every saint. When they canonize someone they are really saying: "Hey, this person had a very cool relationship to the Lord while on earth and now they are in heaven and are really praying hard for us."


I think any evangelical could look at people who have been canonized by the Catholic Church and say, "yeah, that person is in heaven." That's a good choice.

I am not Catholic but I thought this was an interesting read.

only one problem.

Yahshua was the 1st one to enter heaven. No where do we find anyone entering heaven after death. Now the spirit goes back to where it came from. that is only the breath of life.

We see that the dead rise 1st and then those who r alive. This is just throughout time.

If this was not true then the thief on the stake made it to heaven before Yahshua and he is the 1st born of the dead.

Now the saints that were spoken of could very well be called the CALLED or the CHOSEN..

Saints is a word that Yahshua called if that was the word. But again he was speaking of the end times when they r risen as Rev. 14 points to.

To be venerated a Saint I do not see how this is a individual expression.

The only one who knows who is really rightous is Yahweh and probally Yahshua.

This has to be man made. No Apostle made someone a saint. This worship of can not be because no one is called good.

I do not see this as any office and only be in this context either called and chosen by Yahweh.

Saints in the context of the Apostles and disciples in the scriptures would really could be translated brethern.

This is what they really were.

An office is another calling... But a saint is a brother who you both hope are chosen to meet Yahshua in the air in Rev.

Blessings...Miles

yes.

1 Corinthias 15: 22-23.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shal al be made alive.
But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits:
afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


and again in James 1:18.

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a firstfruis of his creatures.

and also in Colossians 1;15,18.

15)Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

18)And he is the head of the body, the church : who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things he might have the preeminence.

A convert to Roman Catholicism, Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton was foundress of the American Sisters of Charity, which was the first sisterhood native to the United States. She was the first person born in the United States to become a canonized saint on September 14, 1975.

During her lifetime she was a wife, mother, widow, sole parent, foundress, educator, social minister, and spiritual leader. Elizabeth Bayley Seton, of British and French ancestry, was born into a prominent Anglican family on August 28, 1774 in New York City and was the second daughter of Dr. Richard Bayley (1744-1801) and Catherine Charlton (d.1777). She died in Emmitsburg, Maryland on January 4, 1821.

The Bayley and Charlton families were among the earliest colonial settlers of the New York area. Elizabeth's paternal grandparents were William Bayley (c.1708-c.1758) and Susannah LeConte (LeCompte, b.1727), distinguished French Huguenots of New Rochelle. Her maternal grandparents, Mary Bayeux and Dr. Richard Charlton (d.1777), lived on Staten Island, where Dr. Charlton, was pastor at Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church.

After the death of his first wife, Dr. Bayley married (1778) Charlotte Amelia Barclay (c.1759-1805), of the Jacobus James Roosevelt lineage of New York. However, the marriage ended in separation as a result of marital conflict. The couple had seven children, three daughters and four sons. Among them was Guy Carleton Bayley (1786-1859), whose son, James Roosevelt Bayley (1814-1877), converted to Roman Catholicism and became the first bishop of Newark (1853-1872) and eighth archbishop of Baltimore (1872-1877).

Elizabeth and her sister were rejected by their stepmother. On account of her father's travel abroad for medical studies, the girls lived temporarily in New Rochelle, New York, with their paternal uncle, William Bayley (1745-1811), and his wife, Sarah Pell Bayley. When her stepmother and father separated, Elizabeth experienced a period of darkness. She reflected about this period of depression in later years in her journal entitled Dear Remembrances and expressed her relief at not taking the drug laudanum, a opium derivative: "This wretched reasoning-laudanum-the praise and thanks of excessive joy not to have done the 'horrid deed'- thoughts and promise of eternal gratitude." Elizabeth had a natural bent toward contemplation; she loved nature, poetry, and music, especially the piano. She was given to introspection and frequently made entries in her journal expressing her sentiments, religious aspirations, and favorite passages from her reading.

Elizabeth wed William Magee Seton (1768-1803), a son of William Seton, Sr., (1746-1798) and Rebecca Curson Seton (c.1746-c.1775), January 25, 1794, in the Manhattan home of Mary Bayley Post. Samuel Provoost (1742-1815), the first Episcopal bishop of New York, witnessed the wedding vows of the couple.

I got to work at one of the facilities in her honor which was called the Saint Elizabeth Anne Seton House for the mentally challenged in Wichita, Kansas. It was close to 15th and Market street. I worked there for six months in the first half of 1984. It wasn't until 1987 that the nursing profession went under radical reconstruction where one had to be atleast a LPN to dispense. But in 1984 even without a CNA license it was legal to dispense medications without a license.

saints?

here are the saints...

Colossians 1:26-29.
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles ; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory :

whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom ; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus :

Whereunto I also labor, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.



I am a saint also. The least, perhaps, but still, one of the saints.

Much to the chagrin of some.


peace.

so there is no doubt about who are called saints, biblically speaking,

Paul writes to the church at Philippi in this way....

Phil. 1:1

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,
to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Redy;

This questoin of saints can be one of confusion - for the recognition of "sainthood" is different in Catholicism than it is in the Protestant sects, or the evangelicals.

In Catholicism (Where the "s" of Saint is capitolized) the title of Saint is awarded to only a select few. The apostles are refered to as Saints - of course there was Saint Patrick, Joan of Arc, etc. Somewhere I'm sure there's a list.

Otherwise, amoungst Protestants and evanglicals, any believer is a saint. It essentially means "one who is called".

To my understanding, it is only the Catholic Church that elevates common people to sainthood...and usually only because of uncommon things that they had done in their lives, or things ascribed to them after their deaths.

I'm right there with ya wouldee

For those who posted without reading previous posts I will post this post again.
Catholics fully agree that Paul refers to living Christians as saints. All of us in the body of Christ are saints.

It would be easy to conclude that this is the only way to use the word "saint." However, long before the time of Christ, King David used the term "saint" while speaking to his fellow Jews, "Love the Lord all you his saints" (Psalm 31:23 NRSV and NIV). The KJB has over 80 instances of the word "saint" in the Old Testament that don't refer to "living Christians"( i.e., 1 Sam.2, 2 Chr.6:41, Job.5:1, Prov.2:8, Dan.7:18, 21, Hos 11:12).

Even Paul sometimes gives the word a distinct meaning: "believers and saints" (Acts 9:32 ), "to the saints and faithful brothers" (Col 1:2). The term is used in a variety of contexts throughout the Bible. The word "saint" simply means "holy one" or "sanctified" (Sanctus). It could be a Jew of the Old Testament, a Christian of the New Testament, a faithful Christian living today, or a Christian in Heaven.
Canonized Saints

When Catholics say the word saint, they are usually talking about a specific kind of saint, a canonized saint. Catholics should probably be more explicit so as not to cause confusion.

The Church recognizes some Christians (saints) that have endured, entered Heaven and won the crown, and have proved to be serious prayer warriors for us on earth. The Church must be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the saint is in heaven. This is why they go through so much scrutiny over each and every saint. When they canonize someone they are really saying: "Hey, this person had a very cool relationship to the Lord while on earth and now they are in heaven and are really praying hard for us."


I think any evangelical could look at people who have been canonized by the Catholic Church and say, "yeah, that person is in heaven." That's a good choice.
flowerforyou
I am not Catholic but I thought this was an interesting read.wink

ok ok I see now, I get it. Even though saint is used by different denominations in a few the word is Capitolized and is bestowed honor requiring veneration. But those who use saint with a little s are recognizing thier brothers and sister in Christ.

Yea?

So when some refer to saint Thomas, or saint Augustine they are simply referring to a fellow Christian.

So let me ask a question. Those who have been led to believe that praying through saints is right to do, are committing any sin in the eyes of those who do not beleive in venerating saints and praying through them?

Will this be a strike against them at the final judgment?

It is like a balance for me because I am part of a spiritual group that tells me, "We aren't saints". And am part of another spiritual group that tells me, "We are saints". I think Paul experienced this on the road to Damascus when the scripture reads, "Saul, Saul why do you persecute me?"

Saul, better known as Paul of Tarsus, is self-described as "a Hebrew of Hebrews," and as "extremely zealous for the traditions of [his] countrymen, and of [his] ancestors." He had set out from Jerusalem for Syrian Damascus around the year 36, with letters from the high priest authorizing him to arrest followers of Jesus of Nazareth whom he could find living in the city of Damascus. He was to bring them back to Jerusalem in chains for questioning and possible execution. Saul had to the best of his ability repressed the disciples in the city of Jerusalem; where, according to his own words, he had "laid waste to the Church, arresting the followers of Jesus, having them thrown into prison, and trying to get them to blaspheme" the name of YHWH. Saul had also distinguished himself during the trial of Saint Stephen, the first of the official Christian martyrs, when Saul had "watched over the robes of those who were stoning Stephen."

While on the road from Jerusalem to Damascus, near Damascus, he was hit by a bolt of light from the sky and dropped to the ground. He heard a voice: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." Paul's traveling companions heard the voice also, but did not see anyone and when Paul stood up, he was blind. They led him to Damascus and for three days he was blind and didn't eat or drink.

I believe Paul was canonized a saint not for persecuting Christians but for becoming a Christian and until one goes through this radical change it would be hard for one to understand it. I could only imagine Saul's reaction and it is easy to understand why Paul wrote so much in rhetoric. Paul had trouble believing it himself. He even says it wasn't his belief he had trouble with since he had the experience on the road to Damascus but his unbelief that caused him problems. I think that is what Paul refers to when he writes of his 'thorn in the flesh'. Doubting Thomas had something similiar to deal with. It is kind of like a Ripley's Believe or Not.

A person who has done exceptional works considered good by the doctrines of the church can be sainted after death if the church agrees. I believe that the Chatholics have the monopoly on saints. Baptists from what I was taught when in Sunday school, do not believe in Saints, they only worship god and Jesus as his son.

The Chatholic Church has alot of "traditions" that are not necessarily recognized by other christian faiths. I believe saints are one of them.